Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (Full Version)

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raiken -> Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (10/25/2006 10:29:43 AM)

i have read about how some dominants lay claim to the right to be selfish, and even over indulgent.  If a sub has beef about it, she is told by some "in the know" that she is not really a sub, and needs an attitude adjustment.  For her mindset is "supposed" to be that she is not to question the dominants actions in this area of desires and pleasures. 
 
Okay, for some this is not an issue.  And some may enjoy this within their dynamic.  Kewl beans for those that do.  But should the sub at least be considered in this aspect?  When do those selfish desires begin to be played out at the subs expense?  For those that have, or have had these issues and /or experiences within this area, how much is/was too much? 
 
When have those selfish indulgences and domly desires crossed the line for you?  When did you begin to feel that the nature of the dominant's actions became toxic for your mental or emotional health in the relationship?
 
i believe that while although the power is unequal in the dynamic, that the fulfillment works best when it is mutually shared and enjoyed.  i know that for some slaves and subs, this thought is not correct thinking in their eyes and they would (and have) called me less than a sub or slave for entertaining such a thought.  i was even told once that i was selfish for feeling this way.  i know that there are those folks who believe that a sub or slave should only be concerned with, and center their fulfillment on the dominant being fulfilled. i understand how this works for those who live by it, in a balanced and healthy relationship or connection. 
 
But when this indulgence occurs too frequently and is (or has a chance of becoming) one sided, the sub or slave may be taken for granted, espeically if one does not share thought about it.  i also know that for some it is hard to differentiate when to speak up about it for fear of sounding like a complaint.  Some are told that this is the way it is and to just deal with it or move along if they can't.  To me, that appears to be a selfish and insensitive statement in and of itself.  Just wanting some perspective and reasoning in this. 
 
i hope i worded this clear enough to get my thought and question across.
Thank you in advance for your thoughts.  *smile



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (10/25/2006 10:41:22 AM)

Relationships work when those who choose to become involved are completely selfish in that they REFUSE to compromise any of their key values and work to get EXACTLY what they want for themselves in life- and who realize that they have to find someone else to be exactly the same way with them.

People who get into these situations naturally find that their priorities shift as necessary- sometimes one person, sometimes the other, and sometimes "the relationship" takes priority.

Dominance is not a license to be a boor, submission is not a mandate to be a martyr.  We should all be getting exactly what we want.

Life is about balancing selfishness and selflessness, and I completely believe that both are necessary in order to be fulfilled.



BitaTruble -> RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (10/25/2006 10:46:29 AM)

I don't know if it's a 'right' or not, but I know that there are a large number of dominants who certainly feel that way. Being able to indulge oneself at their leisure is a major draw to the D/M part of the D/s - M/s couple/group dynamic. The attitude of 'my way or the highway' is very prevalent. Even so, it does not negate the responsibilities that come along with being the dominant party in a relationship.

Himself explains it this way: "Being your Master means I have the right to exercise the power in our relationship. I can choose to exercise that right at my leisure and discretion."

I've always added to that mentally - that it is coupled with the responsibility to weild that power wisely.

I don't believe that being selfish is necessarily a bad thing and sometimes it's a course of action or attitude which helps nurture someone to embrace their own submission as they let go of expectations. That said, if it gets to a point where growth is limited and responsibility is abdicated because selfish has taken over, then partners may do well to re-evaluate the relationship they have and make sure that .. for the dominant, being selfish is not the soul exercise of their power .. and for the submissive, that such selfishness on the part of their partner is not stunting their own growth potential to be all they can be within their dynamic.

Celeste



Dnomyar -> RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (10/25/2006 11:12:26 AM)

It all boils down to a Dom's maturity level.



toservez -> RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (10/25/2006 11:25:19 AM)

I guess this might be splitting hairs but to me there is a difference to being selfish and being selfish to where you have no or little concern for your submissive's needs and happiness. For example, I would have a huge problem with an owner who an hour before we were to go to a party that I was looking forward to going to for weeks all of a sudden decided we were not going because he felt like watching a game on TV, but I prefer an owner to always expresses/takes most of the time as much as possible. I guess I want some respect but not be catered to.

So to me that magic line is when my Master NEVER considers me when doing something or ordering something. Again another  lame example, I would expect him to ask me to get him a drink if we were together but I think he would be going too far if he called me on my cellphone when I am outside working in the garden to get him a drink when he is ten feet away from the refridgerator.





popeye1250 -> RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (10/25/2006 11:26:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken

i have read about how some dominants lay claim to the right to be selfish, and even over indulgent.  If a sub has beef about it, she is told by some "in the know" that she is not really a sub, and needs an attitude adjustment.  For her mindset is "supposed" to be that she is not to question the dominants actions in this area of desires and pleasures. 
 
Okay, for some this is not an issue.  And some may enjoy this within their dynamic.  Kewl beans for those that do.  But should the sub at least be considered in this aspect?  When do those selfish desires begin to be played out at the subs expense?  For those that have, or have had these issues and /or experiences within this area, how much is/was too much? 
 
When have those selfish indulgences and domly desires crossed the line for you?  When did you begin to feel that the nature of the dominant's actions became toxic for your mental or emotional health in the relationship?
 
i believe that while although the power is unequal in the dynamic, that the fulfillment works best when it is mutually shared and enjoyed.  i know that for some slaves and subs, this thought is not correct thinking in their eyes and they would (and have) called me less than a sub or slave for entertaining such a thought.  i was even told once that i was selfish for feeling this way.  i know that there are those folks who believe that a sub or slave should only be concerned with, and center their fulfillment on the dominant being fulfilled. i understand how this works for those who live by it, in a balanced and healthy relationship or connection. 
 
But when this indulgence occurs too frequently and is (or has a chance of becoming) one sided, the sub or slave may be taken for granted, espeically if one does not share thought about it.  i also know that for some it is hard to differentiate when to speak up about it for fear of sounding like a complaint.  Some are told that this is the way it is and to just deal with it or move along if they can't.  To me, that appears to be a selfish and insensitive statement in and of itself.  Just wanting some perspective and reasoning in this. 
 
i hope i worded this clear enough to get my thought and question across.
Thank you in advance for your thoughts.  *smile


Nope, just the opposite.



ToGiveDivine -> RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (10/25/2006 11:42:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

I guess this might be splitting hairs but to me there is a difference to being selfish and being selfish to where you have no or little concern for your submissive's needs and happiness. For example, I would have a huge problem with an owner who an hour before we were to go to a party that I was looking forward to going to for weeks all of a sudden decided we were not going because he felt like watching a game on TV, but I prefer an owner to always expresses/takes most of the time as much as possible. I guess I want some respect but not be catered to.

So to me that magic line is when my Master NEVER considers me when doing something or ordering something. Again another  lame example, I would expect him to ask me to get him a drink if we were together but I think he would be going too far if he called me on my cellphone when I am outside working in the garden to get him a drink when he is ten feet away from the refridgerator.





This is what has me concerned about the lifestyle - lack of respect.  I may want to be a sub but not a slave - I'm still a human and would hope to be looked upon as such.  Sure, during play I can see where the lines get blurred, but that's during play, not 100% of the time.

I read some of these posts and some of the responses and it really makes me wonder if I'm really cut out for the lifestyle.  I read some people's profiles and posts and they don't want a person to be their submissive - just a body.

I agree with her drink example above - there's a line between being a Dominant requiring service and just being plain lazy.  Respect has got to go both ways.  (Once again, this is outside "play" time - if it's agreed that I'm slave for the day, then I'm humping my butt inside to get them their drink ;-)

And yes, I'm using the word "play" in the wrong context - it's just that the proper term escapes me at the moment



Dnomyar -> RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (10/25/2006 11:47:05 AM)

toservez  how far does he have to be away from the refridgerator?



toservez -> RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (10/25/2006 11:56:58 AM)

I wanted to add, we are all selfish. Every single one of us. Even us submissive people are selfish because we want to live a certain way and search it out. There was an episode of Friends that Joey told Phoebe that there was no such thing as a selfless act and then Phoebe spent the episode trying to prove him wrong but could not. Now this is basically popcorn philosophy like someone saying no one can say they have never lied. The point I am badly trying to make is that being selfish is normal but like any other behavior it becomes a problem only when it is exagerated to the point of causing harm to other or to themselves.





toservez -> RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (10/25/2006 11:59:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

toservez  how far does he have to be away from the refridgerator?


LOL, but if you actually subsitute garden with next door with a neighbor that actually happen to me.



MsKatHouston -> RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (10/25/2006 12:20:35 PM)

quote:

Some are told that this is the way it is and to just deal with it or move along if they can't.  To me, that appears to be a selfish and insensitive statement in and of itself.
 
Sometimes it is.  Sometimes it is simply realistic.  If there are concerns a submissive has and they go to their dominant to express them and the dominant has no desire nor inclination to thake the submissive's feelings into account, then, the advice of deal and move along I think is just the choice that has to be made.  It takes two (or however many are in it) to make a relationship work and if the dominant is not doing anything positive then the submissive has to take it upon themselves to make a choice. 

In an ideal situation, if the dominant is exhbiting behaviors that the submissive begins to resent or takes as "too selfish", the submissive brings their concerns to the dominant, the dom listens and does what is needed to correct the situation, compromise, explain, etc for the good of the relationship.  One person's too selfish is another's ideal.  Hopefully everyone in the relationship is getting exactly what they need out of it, everyone is having fun and everyone is happy.  But, not everyone has an ideal situation and when that happens (be it from the dominant side or submissive) you are pretty much left with "take it or leave it". 

One would hope all avenues of trying and communication are exhausted before such a break occurs but when they are...



mstrjx -> RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (10/25/2006 12:22:58 PM)

This is my take on the subject.....

Whenever I hear 'me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me.........', it better be someone practicing singing.

Then again, my views are not necessarily what some might think.  I believe strongly in the ethos of D/s and M/s.  I realize that in order to maintain a relationship of any sort, there has to be enough in it for both people.

I choose to give the daylights out of myself.  I find that satisfying.  What I want for myself back is so pathetically, dismally, little.  That's how I view my selfishness in BDSM relationships.

Of course in my case 'pathetically, dismally, little' is also unattainable, so we'll see how that battle of wills goes.

Jeff



Kalira -> RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (10/25/2006 1:05:17 PM)

I have yet to become involved with the kind that you seem to be protraying here. Every relationship that I have ever been in has been one of compromise on both sides; his and mine.

Of course, I may be misunderstanding what you are saying here. [&:]



Arpig -> RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (10/25/2006 1:24:50 PM)

Yes



raiken -> RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (10/25/2006 1:29:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira

I have yet to become involved with the kind that you seem to be protraying here. Every relationship that I have ever been in has been one of compromise on both sides; his and mine.

Of course, I may be misunderstanding what you are saying here. [&:]


Toservez mentioned laziness.  LOL! Been there done that too btw. *grin 
Reminds me of the time i was downstairs, up to my neck in laundry, when he calls me up to get him the remote that was only 3 feet away. *grin
 
Sometimes i believe that a dominant may take advantage, whether purposely or inadvertantly, of the committment from the sub/slave, to obey without hesitation at times.  Some of this thought comes from hearing, seeing, and being around others who share their personal struggles with me.
 
Like a few days ago, one of my friends came to me crying, not knowing what to do, for she felt unappreciated and taken advantage of, in her relationship and felt that being a slave shouldn't be that difficult, etc. i see and hear about this quite often at times, it seems to come in waves.
 
What i am asking is do you, personally, feel that a dominant has the right to selfishly demand whatever, whenever, from you, and in your personal relationship, just because one is DOM, lol, without having at least some consideration for the subs feelings or thoughts? 
 
i am looking for perspectives and personal experiences in this area, whether they are good or otherwise, and how they ere or were not resolved.  As in has anyone ever had to deal or decided to leave?  Like i said, i understand how this dynamic works within the context of a healthy and balanced relationship or connection between those involved.  Hope this clarifies it for you. *smile



raiken -> RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (10/25/2006 1:31:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Yes


LOL!  A man of few words...i have heard that for some it is a dream to find a gal of few words as well. *grin But then that is what some say gags are for...*weg*
 
Would you care to give a bit more detail as to your answer? *smile



thetammyjo -> RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (10/25/2006 1:33:14 PM)

I think there is a big difference between being selfish and being arrogant or uncaring.

If we don't think of ourselves and take care of ourselves, who honestly will?



Kalira -> RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (10/25/2006 1:34:06 PM)

quote:

What i am asking is do you, personally, feel that a dominant has the right to selfishly demand whatever, whenever, from you, and in your personal relationship, just because one is DOM, lol, without having at least some consideration for the subs feelings or thoughts?

Key words highlighted.
Just because one claims to be a Dominant/Master, then the answer would be no. However, in the relationships that I have been in, yes, he does have that right. Mainly because I give him that right. There were plenty of times that my late husband would want something that he could have taken two steps and gotten; yet he called me to get it for him. I did not think of it as selfishness; just as a part of our dynamic. Others thought it was wrong, but others were not the ones living with him/or me 24/7, 365 days a year.

So, to answer your question :

Yes and no. [:)]



SlaveAkasha -> RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (10/25/2006 1:36:07 PM)

In our relationship, Master does have all final say in everything.  If there is anything I would like to question, or that I have thoughts about, I am free to come to him respectfully and discuss them.  This may nor may not mean something will change, but at least I know my view is in there someplace to him.
 
I don't think it gives them a right to misuse their "powers" over someone by any means.  There is also a difference in someone talking to a Dom, and someone belonging to a Dom or Master.  If I were just getting to know someone and they tried to tell me what to do, then I more than likely wouldn't do it and be told I am not "sub/slave like enough" to do this, or that I was immature.
 
As with anything, there are some that will find ways to abuse it, and this is no different.  It doesn't come down to if they are Dom or not, it's more that they are on a power trip anyway, and just use this as a vehicle of their ego.
 
I can't see why anyone would mind someone talking to them about their reasons for doing something, and listening to their sub/slave.  I know that it will come down to what he wants, regardless, but I do feel better having said my peace.
 
Masters Akasha



raiken -> RE: Do you believe that dominance gives one the right to be selfish? (10/25/2006 1:36:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx

This is my take on the subject.....

Whenever I hear 'me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me.........', it better be someone practicing singing.

Then again, my views are not necessarily what some might think.  I believe strongly in the ethos of D/s and M/s.  I realize that in order to maintain a relationship of any sort, there has to be enough in it for both people.

I choose to give the daylights out of myself.  I find that satisfying.  What I want for myself back is so pathetically, dismally, little.  That's how I view my selfishness in BDSM relationships.

Of course in my case 'pathetically, dismally, little' is also unattainable, so we'll see how that battle of wills goes.

Jeff


LOL! i believe that some would say you sound like a true sub! *grin
i know of other dominants who feel as you do to various degrees.  Some have even complained that they were frowned upon by other dominants for being so generous to their sub inthat respect. *grin  But then again that word, unattainable, bears repeating. *smile



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