RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier?

RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (Full Version)

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LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (10/27/2006 8:04:09 AM)
A lot of people, at least when they start out, DO create Ds as a situation where the submissive gets the easy part- they get to be a spoiled pet, dressed, doted, played with, tied down, ordered about, they don't have to think or worry or decide. It's almost a vacation for them. The ones who make it to the long term realize that all relationships require work from everyone. And while it can take a sub awhile to realize just what goes into a dominant making a good relationship work, there is no vacation from reality and if this reality isn't what works for them- they either "leave the scene forever" or leap from romance to romance hoping to find that ultimate vacation.

bandit25 -> RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (10/27/2006 8:05:26 AM)
I don't know about easier either...just different. We all bring our own unique qualities/talents to the table. It's certainly not easy to make all the decisions all the time (although I seriously doubt that any dom does it ALL the time), but it's not easy putting your life in someone else's hands either. As far as "Yet, from the other side, he has to build my trust up; take responsibility for any and all that he may say and do in regards to me , he has to guide me to the space that I truely yearn to be, using only my words and actions as reference; he has to set the pace; he has to set the ground rules and adhere to them ; he has to take responsibility, emotionally, physically, mentally; for the well being of his property in regards to the relationship...It could go on" , In my opinion, both Dom and sub do it. Don't you have to earn his trust as well? I think I do/did. I certainly have to take responsibility for all I say and do in regards to Him. He didn't necessarily set all the ground rules...they more or less had to be agreed upon. I also believe I take responsiblity for His well being. To me, it's a mutual responsibility.

LotusSong -> RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (10/27/2006 8:08:25 AM)
Re: Submissives Whenever I see the word, I recall Margaret Cho's comment: "I don't know if I'm a bottom or just lazy" :) No insult intended.. just sharing a funny thought :) Actually I can't remember if she said bottom or submissive. I know they are not seen as the same. Humor knows no boundaries.

thetammyjo -> RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (10/27/2006 8:14:52 AM)
First, in my household we use terms a particular way so I'm not sure this will be as clear as I might wish. Let me tell you what Fox always says on this subject. The following is be paraphrasing what he has said to me and to others: Being a submissive is easy -- I get to just do what I'm told but more often I get to just feel and react. Being a slave is a lot of work -- I have to be self-motivated often, I have to always have you (me, TammyJo) at the front of my mind, I have to consider what I am doing because what I do and how I behave reflects back on you, and I have to be able to adjust at any moment to your desires and orders. Those times when I just submit to you those are wonderful, relaxing times when I can just "be". Being your slave though is well worth the work because of what I get back from myself and from you. Those

mstrjx -> RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (10/27/2006 8:17:32 AM)
Well, since I started this basketball game, I should probably make my ideas a little clearer. Of course, saying 'easy' leaves a lot of room for discussion, so I'll go over what I mean here. To begin, let's start with a simple analogy. Let us think of a dominant to being a general in an army, and a submissive to be a private. I've not been in the military myself, but I see being a private to have a few set of 'rules'. a) Shut up b) Follow your orders c) Don't get yourself killed The first two we would call 'obedience'. No argument there. The third, is what is thought of as 'self-preservation'. There are examples of this. Safe words are a way for a submissive or slave to communicate their own safety. Also, simply the choice of who to dominate a submissive is a way of self-preservation. A wise selection yields positive results. A poor selection might not give the same results. A general has many tasks with their position. They need to set goals, make plans for achieving the goals, and many other tasks. Finally and still importantly, they need to keep the morale of their charges high. All of these things a general (or dominant) have to keep in mind are, simply, 'responsibilities'. If you think in terms of a dom/sub relationship (not M/s), I think it is fair to say that a submissive enters into this type of situation because they are willing to give a portion of themselves and make it 'vulnerable' to another. With the appropriate trust levels in place (having made a sound choice in dominants), each layer or aspect of their life that they turn over to a dominant results in greater vulnerability. But this vulnerability isn't given in a vacuum. Just as in physics (opposite and equal reactions), there must be a corresponding element to vulnerability, and no it isn't 'invulnerability'. It is a heightened 'responsibility'. So, within any given relationship, as there is greater submission, there must be greater responsibility. Why MUST there be? Think about it. If you think in terms of bondage, tightly bound, blindfolded, gagged, results in a high level of vulnerability. If the other party is not being responsible, then bad things are likely to happen. In a D/s relationship, the same level of 'pain and suffering' can result from a word, a phrase in the form of humiliation and/or degredation. The phrase I think of to illustrate this is 'a soul can be crushed just as easily as Elizabeth Montgomery on Bewitched twitches her nose'. Submissives need to consider their heightened vulnerability in the choice of who they decide to be with. Dominants need to understand that the more submission they are given, they MUST be willing to take on a greater amount of responsibility, or else they shouldn't be allowed in the game. We see (users, abusers, rapists) what happens if they are. You can see that in the case of an M/s relationship, this level of vulnerability and responsibility expands greatly. An 'owner' needs to understand the authority that they are taking, and act accordingly. You might find fault with this statement, but I believe that the one thing that CANNOT be taken from a slave is their own sense of self-preservation. They need it if they are ever to need to walk away. So, this is why on a scale of 'ease' it is simpler to submit. Each responsibility that falls to the dominant results in one fewer responsibilities that a submissive or slave needs to concern themselves with. The more that is 'taken' from them, the more 'free' they can become to get on with the business of submitting and (if need be) serving. Areas that are outside of the relationship (i.e., those areas of a sub's life that they still control) are not counted, because they are not part of the negotiated 'scene'. If I remember correctly, one of the arguments against what I said in the other thread was that it takes a lot of effort simply to find ways to 'please' their dom/master/mistress/owner. Baloney. As a dominant, if you are not pleasing me, that is because I have not adequately 'trained' you to please me. If I have never explained what I like and don't, a sub CANNOT be held responsible for that. That responsibility rests on the shoulders of the dom. Most arguments, I believe, will fall into one of two areas. Responsibilities that the dominant 'should' be claiming for themself, or those things that are outside of the negotiations. Emotions do NOT fall outside of this. If a sub feels 'bad' about something, it is probably a lack of communication or ignorance on the part of the dom. And while I agree that communication IS a two-way street, it is up to the dom to be able to enforce how that communication is disseminated. So, communication IS part of the dom's responsibilities. I hope this helps to clear things up, even in quite a lengthy post. Don't get yourself killed. Jeff

angharad -> RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (10/27/2006 8:21:19 AM)
Would a sub find it easier to do the dominants role? Have the right answers, most of the time, the energy, the confidence and all the qualities and responsibilites that come with dominance? Would a dominant find it easier to submit, to surrender control, to obey lol. The point i'm making is that it's easier for who exactly? We are who we are and we usually find ourselves in the area of D/s that is easiest to us because it is part of who we are. The question to me is like trying to compare shadows with light. You need one for the other, they are different. Is the actual physical and mental breakdown important? If its working properly you are both putting everything into it. respectfully submitted as just my thoughts

mstrjx -> RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (10/27/2006 8:29:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angharad Would a dominant find it easier to submit, to surrender control, to obey lol. Courage to be able to submit (which some might find excruciatingly difficult), and trust (which apparently many also find excruciatingly difficult as well). I believe those two elements are not difficult concepts, nor should they be difficult to implement. One of my nagging thoughts is that the idea of trust seems to be SO much harder for women, then men. I understand men are beasts and all that. Of course it shouldn't be this hard. Trust is very easy for me, both ways actually. I have the great fortune of being easily trusted in everything I do. (And yet, I'm a man! Fancy that.) Jeff

cris1 -> RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (10/27/2006 8:39:26 AM)
each role requires special skills and/or abilities and one cannot exist without the other. Therefore, one hand washes the other, just as there are female and male of the species, so to there must be submissive and dom sides to each relationship and each side requires effort, the degree to which it may be "difficult" is greatly dependant on that persons nature or comfort in their role to begin with. Regardless, each has its value and does not trump the other.

meatcleaver -> RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (10/27/2006 8:49:14 AM)
In a word, yes! They are so emotionally demanding.

Lorelei115 -> RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (10/27/2006 9:00:40 AM)
When I am a dominant, it is for other people... when I am a submissive, it is for myself. Does that makes sense to anyone else? When I am Dominant, I am taking care of a submissive's need to be used, and that makes me happy. (Plus I just like hitting people.) When I am submissive, its my chance to let go, let someone else take the reins for a change, just be nothing but a mindless reciever. Of course, that only applies to the physical, in the moment side of playing, which is what I do. It may be different for those who have a 24/7 style relationship. I would imagine that, as others have said, like any relationship, it requires an equal amount of effort from both sides.

Furr -> RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (10/27/2006 9:05:16 AM)
This thread seems to cover the ground. I believe each has a part to play to make a success (Does this sound like vanilla relationships?) The Dominant has a tremendous responsibility to care for and create growth for the sub. This can be planned at the Dominant's convenience. The sub needs to permit greater vulnerability. Trust is not an easy commodity. The sub needs to report her feelings and report them to the Dom. This is great vulnerability. The sub (if slave) should have no free time, constantly thinking of how to better serve the Dominant. Naturally these comments are totally dependent on the depth of the relationship. Anyway. these are My thoughts.

juliaoceania -> RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (10/27/2006 9:07:05 AM)
The hardest jobs I have ever held I had little or no responsibility for the outcome of my tasks, I was overworked physically and underpaid economically, and at the end of the day I felt like a nonconsensual slave. Then I went back to school, I worked very hard, I have ran my own business successfully until I became responsible for the care of an elderly step parent. I am planning on going to graduate school with all the responsibilities that this entails.. it is NOT harder to have more responsibility if you believe in what you are doing, in many ways it is EASIER than having no control. As someone that surrenders my personal power in my intimate relationship, I have to say it feels like falling off a log to me, not too hard at all, I asked my Daddy for his input on this and he said I am basically comparing apples to bananas... they are different things and hard and easier does not even compute in his mind. He does not feel it is harder to be dominant than submissive. I almost started this thread myself Kalira...lol

meatcleaver -> RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (10/27/2006 9:12:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania The hardest jobs I have ever held I had little or no responsibility for the outcome of my tasks, I was overworked physically and underpaid economically, and at the end of the day I felt like a nonconsensual slave. Going off topic. A report by the London School of Economics a few years ago said people who worked in menial jobs were twice as likely to suffer from stress than people in demanding jobs. Having done menial work and also having experienced an intellectual and skilled job, I find no difficulty in believing the report to be correct.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (10/27/2006 9:13:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross A lot of people, at least when they start out, DO create Ds as a situation where the submissive gets the easy part- they get to be a spoiled pet, dressed, doted, played with, tied down, ordered about, they don't have to think or worry or decide. It's almost a vacation for them. I was never one of those people! Spoiled? Doted? Don't have to think? A vacation? Damn, I missed something! [:D] (I know what you are trying to relay, LA, just having fun with it because it was never the case for me). I have seen this "who has it harder" argument countless times. Both jobs are hard. Master could not be a slave any more than I could be a Master. His job is challenging for him, in that he spends ample effort teaching me, molding me, fine tuning me, knowing me inside and out so that he knows exactly what buttons to push and when, and overall managing me and making decisions for me where appropriate. My job is also very difficult. I do not sit around waiting to be told what to do. I am required to think, to analyze, to grow, to get over myself, to overcome hurdles and past baggage, and to perform tasks and services that I never in my life dreamed I would find myself doing. My mind is constantly pushed and challenged. There is very little time for rest. MstrJx, you said: quote: You might find fault with this statement, but I believe that the one thing that CANNOT be taken from a slave is their own sense of self-preservation. They need it if they are ever to need to walk away. It is not that I find fault with this statement. It is that it simply does not apply to some of us. For some, the emotional bond we are in is far too strong to walk away from. For others, the price of walking away is just too high. Some may find fault in that, too, but it is the case, none-the-less. Frankly, I do not know why there is this need to compare anyway. To Dominants who say submitting is easier, I say maybe you do not challenge your submissives very much. To submissives who say dominating is easier, I say maybe your dom does not work very hard on your behalf. To both, if such answers are inappropriate, I say perhaps you do not see the full spectrum of what the "other half" experiences. Still...the answer will be different depending on the relationship and the people in it.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (10/27/2006 9:25:57 AM)
That makes no sense to me, and sounds like something a self-pitying dom would say. Subs are subs because they have to be; doms are doms because they have to be. Neither one has it easier. quote: ORIGINAL: Kalira It was mentioned in the other thread, in passing, that 'submissives have it much easier than Dom's"

Mercnbeth -> RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (10/27/2006 9:28:55 AM)
"Easier" or "harder" are descriptions most commonly referring to work or labor of some kind. It's an indication of effort. If it takes an effort to live up to the label you identify with you should consider if the identity is correct. At the very least you should consider if how you behave within that identity is an act or a reflection of someone else's definition of your label instead of reflecting a yourself. More commonly laziness enters into the equation. It used to amuse me to be greeted by a submissive who presented themselves naked saying; "do with me what you will". Just for fun, I'd have them kneel on all fours and use them as a footstool while reading a book, newspaper, or watching TV. If they complained I told them that was "my will". It usually generated a discussion when what they really meant when they said; "do with me what you will" was "perform for me!" I am, and never was, never a performance based facilitation Dominant. To an outside observer the submissive may seem the easier part in the dance with a Dominant. Reality is the dance would be very boring, especially to the Dominant if this was the case long term. Many short term relationships end up being short term because the Dominant has run out of ideas. The submissive wonders what happened? Partners need to feed off each other. Passivity isn't the number one trait necessary in a submissive anymore than aggressiveness being the number one trait of a Dominant. Passion, ideas, aggressiveness, intelligence, excitement, enthusiasm, and involvement is required by both. The idea of surrendering the decision making authority to me over how those traits are exhibited within the relationship is what attracted me to a D/s relationship. I find the idea of control over an independent intelligent woman empowering. A passive, lazy, "do with me what you will" type generates the mental image of dominating a love doll. What fun is that? But I guess for the 'doll' it would be easier.

angharad -> RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (10/27/2006 9:31:55 AM)
Please excuse me this is in reply to mstrjx, i dont know how to quote or reply to the correct person yet, i might have done it correctly but i doubt it , sorry [:)] I agree totally with you that it takes courage to submit. Sometimes it takes all of your courage and the knowledge that what you do is pleasing to the one you are submitting to, it takes everything you have. I also agree that trust can be incrediably hard for some people, myself included in that. I believe trust comes in its own time and cannot be faked. You can go past the point you are prepared to trust and that takes courage! I believe its always better to face fears than hide from them, even if you need time to work through them. Yet you can only run on courage so long. You need the trust and support to catch up and reenforce that you were right and you can trust your Dominant. Thats what I mean by you can't and shouldn't fake it or you will get yourself in trouble. To answer your nagging thought that trust seems harder for women, I would say that for me personally, in a Male/female version of D/s the size and strength of the man can make me feel very vulnerable. I am not that hard to break and really hurt if he wants to. That takes courage, to stand/kneel there knowing that. Harder again to come back and put myself back in that situation. Why do I do it, because I trust him to not break me and I'm running on trust, courage and hope, because utimately when your tied and helpless, you could have been wrong. Ok I have trust issues [:)] But then again it must be hard to encourage my trust!! So again in response to the Op, is it possible to compare submission to dominance? Isn't it all individual within the bounds of a relationship? It's not the physical and mental definitions of what is done you should measure but the effort and commitment and intrigity of those people in what they do. For me, both parties can give time, effort, support, affection, devotion and commitment to the best of their ability and then find more. One finds it easier to give submissively, one in dominance. I hope that made some sense. respectfully just my thoughts.

gypsygrl -> RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (10/27/2006 10:22:44 AM)
From a submissive perspective, here's how I see it. This only applies to me, so take from it what you will. :) I'm looking at it as a matter of power exchange and any act of submission can be broken down in terms of that exchange. Everything leading up to an actual power exchange takes work and can be difficult. Finding an appropriate partner, getting to know them, conveying the necessary information that would allow them to dominate me, building enough trust, opening myself in such a way that I can be dominated, to say nothing about tending to the practical and material aspects of interaction is all time consuming work and isn't necessarily easy. I consider this preparatory work. But, when it comes to the actual submission, the power exchange itself, which for me has always been time bound, that is easy and I always feel it to be a release. Its a form of relaxing for me, in a very deep way. If I perform service, which again, can involve effort, it becomes easy to the extent that it is accompanied with a sense of gratitude. Being a submissive is probably no easier than being a dominant. Being a submissive involves little more than being human. But, that's different from the act of submission. Under the right conditions, that is easy.

imtempting -> RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (10/27/2006 11:15:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheWord The truth was, despite my thin veneer of civilization, I was just a red necked country boy, swilling moonshine, and looking for Moonbeam McSwine. I never found her. But I had a lot of fun searching. I always wanted to make moonshine. One day perhaps. Anyway I have experienced being a dom aswell as submitting, I am a sub and it feels natural for me to obey as when I had to be a dom it was extremly hard to controll and the person I was dominating was normally a domme and it was hard for her to give up power. In the end she took control back as it was alot more fun for both of us.It was easier. As for normal relationships for some reason I only ever meet women that are submissive and I end up making all the choices. It suks...

Mavis -> RE: Do submissives REALLY have it easier? (10/27/2006 11:35:46 AM)
i'm going to re-post what i said in the originating thread, with minor edits for typos, etc... i feel Dominanting is more difficult, but submitting is more challenging. quote: self in other thread: Ah, but if it were all so simply about tasking, fetching, saying yes and no. Then all a Dominant would have to do is come up with "where are my slippers?" The real difficuly is in knowing the sub or slave, with planning and forethought, managing their growth and development, their sexuality in many cases, finances in some cases. i SO hate to imply subs or slaves are like raising children, with this comparison, because that *isn't* the case, but Consider what a parent must do to raise kids RIGHT, considering their personalities, defining rules that allow for each childs inherant differences. Would jr do better playing football or buying a clarinet, or both? Will letting him play a season as the team runt draw him up to the challenge, or would it seal his self concept as a luzer? Those choices parents make based on knowledge of their child. Good Dominants do the same, only They don't have the luxury of seeing us in our formative years, They have to make much faster assesments, often while being feed incorrect or misguided data by a conflicted sub. They have the responsibility when Their choices cause long lasting impact, They sleep, wake, and manage Their lives with the "Do no harm" injunction, while at the same time, They're told "It's all about Your needs, get what YOU need--- Oh! but... don't forget the sub has needs, don't fail the sub, the community is watching you!" And W/we'll nail ya to the cross if You fuk up. Ever.

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