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RE: Vanilla/lifestyle Dominants - 10/27/2006 8:35:10 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Domination is the condition of having control or power over people. Makes no difference family member or submissive.

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RE: Vanilla/lifestyle Dominants - 10/27/2006 8:42:55 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Another thought........being dominant, even vanilla, does not mean the person has to be an ass, pushy or abusive. To me, those are just signs of insecurity and imaturity regardless or BDSM or vanilla.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Vanilla/lifestyle Dominants - 10/27/2006 8:48:48 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		Of course there is vanilla dominance. Many relationships have it and it has nothing to do with being an asshole. Plenty of assholes who are in this life as well.

In the regular/vanilla world there are many relationships where one person naturally takes the lead in everything and the other person is perfectly OK and happy about it. Normal relationships all have an alpha and beta and depending on the level, just like WIITWD, on how the relationship works. Plenty of relationships have the alpha controlling directly and/or naturally most of what goes on like who does what, social activities, where they live and other things. The only thing I think is different is that they with probably a very small exception do not have deeper levels then what we often talk about like vanilla M/s without wanting to drudge up a definition argument.

The main thing that separates us from "vanilla" life is the kink and agreed upon aknowledgement of the power exchange. I am guessing most of us before we knew of this life were drawn more to our opposite and it had nothing to do with kink.

.

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Vanilla/lifestyle Dominants - 10/27/2006 8:50:59 AM   
NINASHARP


Posts: 295
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: NJ/NYC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aeon

i had to say a little something here...i have had an "online relationship" with a Vanilla guy for about 7 months now. We talk every day or every other day and have gotten to know each other very well.  Laughingly i refer to him amongst my friends as my "gardening project". He is most definitely and completely a natural Dominant in that He makes all the important decisions for his family, expects complete obediance and compliance with all requests, holds a high-powered corporate position, only shares the information He deems appropriate to share, is extremely sharp-minded and witty, etc. etc.


Hello Aeon,

I don't want to get off subject here, but since you said it was an online relationship, I don't think you can really know that this person you speak of was really all the things he claimed he was in his vanilla life. I mean it was online and all and I've met many who haven't been completely honest online. It could be he was puffing himself up a bit to make himself look more important than he really was. I'm not sure you could really verify it, since it was online.

Back to the OP, IMO, the example you gave of a vanilla dominant, described to me, as more of a power hungry, controlling, even bully, than dominant. I don't believe in self proclaimed dominance, though some people are naturally this way, and you can see that from those they interact with. But those who are over bearing and control freaks, aren't dominant, they are just egotistic maybe, a bit of a  Narcissistic Personality? To me, (doesn't mean I'm right) what makes someone dominant even in vanilla sense, is the way they command other people to follow their lead and how others try to please and serve them out of respect. Not from fear of their oh great and ever so powerfulness JMO! 

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RE: Vanilla/lifestyle Dominants - 10/27/2006 8:56:25 AM   
Lady Alaria


Posts: 160
Joined: 10/16/2006
Status: offline 		Mmm,
Agree with Aeon much. Seems that dominants play a simlar role, particularly in families(work situations are....different). The main difference seems to be the self-awareness, and the acceptance. The submissives in such a family might, also, not completely resent the dominant. Plenty of vanilla women, and some vanilla men(harder for them without the support of a community), are perfectly willing to give up power, without contract or real understanding of what they've done. Seen it plenty of times. But it lacks a clear definition. And resentments can form. Along with passive aggressive behavior. And without an understanding of all that dominance really entails, the dominant is more likely to respond in ways that at least seem(and might actually be) uncaring, unloving.

Vanilla D/s can and does work just fine all the time. But it definetely has a different sort of look and feel.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Vanilla/lifestyle Dominants - 10/27/2006 9:04:59 AM   
Aeon


Posts: 199
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline 		Just to clarify Nina...this person is what you would call high profile...famous to a certain degree...so accomplishments are very much verifiable...google the guy's name and there is at least a page about his athletic career and following corporate accomplishments.  i agree totally with the difficulty of believing what people say in most cases when online however as i stated we have been in communication for over 7 months now. Many pictures have been shared on both sides and although He doesn't know i have checked Him out. Even the BEST liars don't get past me for that long...lol.

Edited to add that He never "claimed" to be anything...i am just crafty enough to figure Him out!...lol 

< Message edited by Aeon -- 10/27/2006 9:09:55 AM >

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RE: Vanilla/lifestyle Dominants - 10/27/2006 9:27:44 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		That's DOMINEERING, not dominant.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Overbearing, an asshole, Pushy, Controlling whatever lable you want to use. Some vanillas run their household with an iron hand. For a family to function one member has to be the Dominant. Puts on my flame retardant suit.

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RE: Vanilla/lifestyle Dominants - 10/27/2006 9:44:51 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		The difference is the self awareness of the Dominants in question and thus often, the attittude they have about it. Also, I'd imagine that vanilla Dominants often don't get consent from those they domineer.


Master Fire


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RE: Vanilla/lifestyle Dominants - 10/27/2006 9:57:15 AM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Ok as true to form this is from another post. Vanilla Dominats verse Lifestyle Dominats. Is there a difference? They both preform the same function of controling their domain. Both are controling submissives.


After reading this thread, a couple of things came to mind.
 
i once met a guy who was in a 20 year 'vanilla marriage' but felt he had a dominant personality (after his divorce, he did get into D/s).   During that marriage, he attempted to spank his wife....ONCE.  She told him if he ever did that again, she would have him arrested.  He felt dominant...but his wife was not submissive in any way, shape, or form....so he could not act on that feeling....so what does that make him?
 
my father worked, paid the bills and took care of the discipline in our household.  In essence, his word was the final word for all of us.  my mom stayed home, took care of us kids, cooked and kept the house clean.  i always thought my father would be called a Head of Household.....i really didn't see him as dominant in the D/s sense.  And in general, my mother did not have to answer to him in any way.  She did anything else she wanted as long as she took care of the house and kids first.  He gave her money for household expenses and never questioned her about anything she used it for (unless there was a large purchase to be made....like a washer, etc...then my father would have to allow that and give her the money).  As we kids got older and left, my father still worked and supported the household and my mother pretty much had free reign to do as she pleased.  Again, she did not have to answer to my father in any way.  So what does this make him?
 
my youngest son is 18.  From a young age, he has displayed a dominant type personality.  (He even tried it on me sometimes, but it didn't work....lol.)  The first day he went to kindergarten, he came home and said he wasn't going back because "the teacher thinks she's the boss".  So there ya go. 
 
But i often wonder where he will end up.  Not really realizing what he is, will he just enter a 'vanilla marriage' and squelch his dominant side?  Will he find a 'vanilla submissive' who just might be agreeable to his type of authority?  Will he end up discovering D/s?  i don't know.
 
So exactly what is a vanilla dominant?

Just some thoughts that came to mind reading these posts.
 
DG
 
 

< Message edited by adaddysgirl -- 10/27/2006 10:07:45 AM >

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RE: Vanilla/lifestyle Dominants - 10/27/2006 10:16:30 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar
For a family to function one member has to be the Dominant.


I think that may have appeared true at one point in time (or through most of history), but not so much anymore. The metrosexual is coming of age, at least in urban areas and urban is growing as fast as rural is dying. Habits are changing and old stereotypes are being shed.

Sure, there are some vestiges, but I think that people in general are coming into balance in terms of relationship dynamics. The HOH concept is going out and the 'we' factor is coming more into play than ever before. I don't see that trend changing except for smaller fringe groups (like alternative lifestyle groups such as ours, or single parent homes - but I gather from your OP that you are speaking of homes with at least two adults in a partnership).

Child rearing is becoming a 'parent' thing rather than a 'mom' thing, income is being brought into the home by all the partners in the family and compromise is the word of the day in terms of decision making, who has it and who does it.

Ultimate authority in a household is going out of style and is no longer the strict domain of a single half of a given couple in a vanilla setting and without that, how can you have a vanilla dominant?

Just stuff I've observed as my kids and their friends head towards their 30's, how they interact, what they expect etc. (There are few people in life who encapsulate 'vanilla' more than my son. I do not view the term as degrogatory at all, just that someone who is vanilla isn't involved in an alternative lifestyle.)

YMMV

As far as vanilla dominants controlling submissives.. I don't understand that comment at all but then, I don't really understand why you refer to an asshole as a vanilla dominant when you can be completely submissive and still be an asshole. ::shrugs::

Celeste



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Rock, paper, scissors."

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RE: Vanilla/lifestyle Dominants - 10/27/2006 10:34:52 AM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

The difference is the self awareness of the Dominants in question and thus often, the attittude they have about it. Also, I'd imagine that vanilla Dominants often don't get consent from those they domineer.


Master Fire



Yes, this about covers it for me.  I would add an explicitI willingness to negotiate levels of control.

One of the reasons I won't do vanilla relationships any more is because I tend to bond with dominants and to do this without their general awareness, seeking of consent and willingness to negotiate is just too dangerous, emotionally.

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RE: Vanilla/lifestyle Dominants - 10/27/2006 10:42:09 AM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline 		i agree Bita.  Both my oldest brother and my oldest daughter are married and would describe their marriages as "50-50".  In both relationships, all the spouses work.  All decisions are made jointly.  Money is pooled.  All aspects of child rearing are shared....from diaper changing to discipline (waayyyy different than it was for me as a child.  my father didn't get up during the night nor touch any diapers...lol).

So what about your average joe who might feel he's dominant....but is not able to exert that dominance over anyone?  Wonder what that would be called? 

Again, just some random thoughts.  Interesting thread though

DG 

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RE: Vanilla/lifestyle Dominants - 10/27/2006 11:07:29 AM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		As far as i can tell dynomars difference between "vanilla dominance"  and "lifestyle dominance"  is only the addition of S&M or erotic controls?   (assholness and bullying aside, anyone can do those things)

So i would say that's purely D/s or M/s, neither of which HAS to also include S&M or erotic pain in any way.  Topping skills are an additional module in my book.   Hubby has declined to install that upgrade, but i wouldn't call Him a vanilla Dom just because He is unwilling or uninterested in doing S&M. 

i think the line was crossed over when He realised and started consciously practicing consentual controls, not when He became aware of the term "lifestyle".

i don't think there IS such a thing as vanilla dominance, you're either dominant or you're not, and from there, you're either responsibile with it or you're not. 

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RE: Vanilla/lifestyle Dominants - 10/27/2006 11:55:24 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Ok as true to form this is from another post. Vanilla Dominats verse Lifestyle Dominats. Is there a difference? They both preform the same function of controling their domain. Both are controling submissives.


I don't even understand why there is a need to use a qualifyer in front of a label.  Either you are a dominant or you aren't.  The use of the qualifyers make it feel like a round peg is being forced through a square hole and it just won't fit.

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
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RE: Vanilla/lifestyle Dominants - 10/27/2006 12:03:02 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl
i once met a guy who was in a 20 year 'vanilla marriage' but felt he had a dominant personality (after his divorce, he did get into D/s).   During that marriage, he attempted to spank his wife....ONCE.  She told him if he ever did that again, she would have him arrested.  He felt dominant...but his wife was not submissive in any way, shape, or form....so he could not act on that feeling....so what does that make him?


It depends because I wouldn't consider the desire to spank someone as the centerpiece of what makes someone dominant.  Based on that he'd be at least a spanker in my mind, maybe a top.  But either way it would be someone thats not fully realized what they are yet.

quote:

 
my father worked, paid the bills and took care of the discipline in our household.  In essence, his word was the final word for all of us.  my mom stayed home, took care of us kids, cooked and kept the house clean.  i always thought my father would be called a Head of Household.....i really didn't see him as dominant in the D/s sense.  And in general, my mother did not have to answer to him in any way.  She did anything else she wanted as long as she took care of the house and kids first.  He gave her money for household expenses and never questioned her about anything she used it for (unless there was a large purchase to be made....like a washer, etc...then my father would have to allow that and give her the money).  As we kids got older and left, my father still worked and supported the household and my mother pretty much had free reign to do as she pleased.  Again, she did not have to answer to my father in any way.  So what does this make him?


It makes them equals with clearly delineated responsibilities.

quote:


my youngest son is 18.  From a young age, he has displayed a dominant type personality.  (He even tried it on me sometimes, but it didn't work....lol.)  The first day he went to kindergarten, he came home and said he wasn't going back because "the teacher thinks she's the boss".  So there ya go. 


Sounds like a fairly typical (spoiled) child.  Most kids try to push their parents over and get their parents (and other authority figures) to do what they want.  I wouldn't consider that a terribly good example of dominant behavior.
 
quote:


So exactly what is a vanilla dominant?


A bullshit term, to me at least. 

C~


_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to adaddysgirl)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Vanilla/lifestyle Dominants - 10/27/2006 12:45:44 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Ok as true to form this is from another post. Vanilla Dominats verse Lifestyle Dominats. Is there a difference? They both preform the same function of controling their domain. Both are controling submissives.


There are of course those who reject subscribing to either of the terms to encompass who and what they are. I abhor the use of the word "vanilla" about equally as much as the use of the term "lifestyle" in the lifestyle.

Having said that, when you strip humans of their props, stage play and rote adherence to what constitutes in so many words and actions a cult of facade, an animal reality that subsists is revealed. Dominance and submission can and does manifest in so many forms, and should not be measured by what banners flutter over them. There are those who know nothing of the tenets of BDSM, yet understand the reality of dominance and submission far better than many of those "experienced" with it. Some know what it really is and others never truly will. In my mind, authenticity transcends surface standards and the glamour of a hip counter culture.


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RE: Vanilla/lifestyle Dominants - 10/27/2006 12:57:55 PM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs
It depends because I wouldn't consider the desire to spank someone as the centerpiece of what makes someone dominant.  Based on that he'd be at least a spanker in my mind, maybe a top.  But either way it would be someone thats not fully realized what they are yet.
quote:

 

Well that was just an example i used.....as we had talked about different methods of discipline.  That really wasn't the whole picture.  There was really more to it than that.
 
quote:

 
It makes them equals with clearly delineated responsibilities.
quote:



Well, i might agree they were equals with the exception that my father's word was final....with no argument.  i can recall when he started a small business for himself....and how pissed my mom was that he didn't even mention it to her first.  She complained to me but never said a word to him...she knew better.  my father never laid a hand on neither me nor my mom (although he did discipline my brothers) but we just both knew that what he said went...period.  So he could question my mom (if he so chose) but that was not true the other way around.  And that is unlike the 50-50 relationships i mentioned previously.

 

Sounds like a fairly typical (spoiled) child.  Most kids try to push their parents over and get their parents (and other authority figures) to do what they want.  I wouldn't consider that a terribly good example of dominant behavior.
 
quote:



Well, i have a 26 yr old son also, who is quite laid back...just a different type of personality.  i really don't see it as him trying to push me over.  It's not like he's testing limits or anything.  i could probably think of a thousand examples but like the other night....it was pretty late and he asked me what time i was going to bed.  i asked him why he wanted to know.  He said because i wouldn't be able to get up in the morning (which is true).   i am most certain that if i were his partner, he would have made me go to bed if for no other reason than that would be the right thing to do. 
 
i heard him tell his girlfriend one day that eating too much at McDonald's wasn't good for her and i cringed...thinking she will probably tell him to go f off.  i realize he acts out of concern...but he can come across as 'bossy'....and a lot of 'non-dominant' guys just don't talk that way.  Again, there are several examples but it would be too much to get into here.



DG




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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Vanilla/lifestyle Dominants - 10/27/2006 1:00:58 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Overbearing, an asshole, Pushy, Controlling whatever lable you want to use. Some vanillas run their household with an iron hand. For a family to function one member has to be the Dominant. Puts on my flame retardant suit.


To begin, I think you're describing someone that's "domineering", and I would distinguish that from a lifestyle Dominant.
 
Being "dominant" is not unique to BDSM, and as has been mentioned previously in this thread, submissives/slaves are also dominant in certain aspects of their lives (work, friends, family, etc).  Having said that, there is often a difference between the vanilla definition of a term, and the lifestyle definition of a term.  In the vanilla usage "dominant" is used to describe someone's position relative to someone else (ie: a heirarchy), whereas the lifestyle usage of "dominant" is used to describe the individual themselves, their state of being, without any comparison to anyone else (ie: one either is or is not a dominant, regardless of their position relative to another).
 
Though I'm interested in hearing other opinions, I'm wondering how they would not make a "Dominant" into a "submissive" as an employee  (ie: their position is relative to another).  I am thankfully self-employed.
 
John

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Sri da Avabhas

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RE: Vanilla/lifestyle Dominants - 10/27/2006 1:01:59 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Hello, Val.  And welcome to the boards.
 
John

_____________________________

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Sri da Avabhas

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Vanilla/lifestyle Dominants - 10/27/2006 1:35:59 PM   
charismagirrl


Posts: 297
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		This is an intersesting topic and i have a few views on it, having lived with a domineering vanilla and now with a Dominant/Master/Daddy.

In my relationship with the domineering vanilla, he was very much the head of the household and ruled with an iron fist. He also did and said alot of things out of insecurity and used fear as a way to get what he wanted accomplished. Was i sub to him? Well, yeah, but i was also scared to death of his rages.So i was a doormat, (not submissive in the BDSM sense) and walked on by him.My respect level for him was small to non-existent after a fashion.

This is sooo contrary to the relationship i have with my Daddy/Master and is also contrary to alot (not all because assholes come in all varieties) of D/s M/s relationships. my Daddy doesn't rule through fear but by making me respect him. i am submissive to him in every way and the respect i give him is well earned and is continuing to grow.

i also spent a lot of years in a more equal/vanilla relationship (trying for a BDSM one) and in that one i basically wore the pants, made the majority of the decisions and did what i chose (while attempting to be a bottom for him, LOL, talk about a losing battle). That being said, just because i was in a position of basic control in that relationship, it didn't change for a second the fact that i am a sub/slave in my soul. 

My point is, that even though i'm not a doormat to the world at large (far from it) i am always submissive to my Daddy and always a slave inside of me. i don't put on my slave hat when i walk in the front door and remove it when i leave to go out into the world. The same thing can be said about "vanilla dominants". They can put on the hat of being dominant but it doesn't ever make them the same thing, in my eyes, as a BDSM Dominant or a Master.

Showing dominant traits doesn't make one a Dominant nor does showing submissive or door mat traits make one a BDSM sub or slave. 

Just my opinions :)

< Message edited by charismagirrl -- 10/27/2006 1:37:23 PM >

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For today i wont say just...
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