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I'm Sorry...but I can't stop apologizing.... - 10/27/2006 8:27:00 AM

ladychatterley

Posts: 132
Joined: 3/10/2006
Status: offline

OK, I'm doing relatively OK with rules, but one. I'm not supposed to apologize for anything, unless he tells me too. Now, granted, I tend to use "I'm Sorry" as shorthand for "I'm sorry to hear that" and "I emphathize with what you must be going through" and "I guess I should have thought of that" and anytime I don't see something as the way it should be. I guess I do it too much. But this is the only place I've repeatedly just not followed through on a rule. And then I want to apologize for apologizing, so it starts to look like a Monty Python routine. Anyone else out there with a similar experience? How have you dealt with it, succesfully or otherwise?

Post #: 1

RE: I'm Sorry...but I can't stop apologizing.... - 10/27/2006 9:24:52 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

I do the same thing and it drives my dominant and my friends nuts. I'll apologize for something I shouldn't and then I'll start apologizing for apologizing and things get out of control. I've gotten a degree of control it by, if I realize I'm going to apologize for something I don't need to, I take a deep breath and instead of saying I'm sorry I say "I'm not sorry, this is not my fault." Or if I've already said I'm sorry I'll say "No, I'm not sorry, this isn't something I should be sorry for." I know strangers must think I'm nuts but the people close to me understand what is going on. Hope this helps you a bit.

(in reply to ladychatterley)

Post #: 2

RE: I'm Sorry...but I can't stop apologizing.... - 10/27/2006 9:25:30 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I am the same way, he has not set up a rule about it, but he has brought it to my attention that I do it. He does not mind if I say it in sympathy to him... RE "Im sorry you have a headache" "Im sorry you had a hard day at work". He does mind if I say it when it is not appropriate to the conversation, he does not always want me to be sorry for everything or apologize for everything.

"Im sorry" are powerful words, and he is right, they should not be overused... like "I love you" when you say it all the time it cheapens it. So just try looking at it like that and your "Im sorrys" might lessen over time? It worked for me.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ladychatterley)

Post #: 3

RE: I'm Sorry...but I can't stop apologizing.... - 10/27/2006 9:25:48 AM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

I could be reading too much into your post but it sounds like a rule your Master put into place because it comes out of your mouth so much that the meaning is so watered down or changed that he feels the need to restore it to how he wants to hear it. I have seen this a lot with some people who uses the phrase "I love you" so much in their relationship that it becomes just like asking a stranger or co-worker passing them in a hall "how is it going".

I would sit down and talk with him and hash it out. Either he accepts that is just a phrase that you use and to do someting different to signify you are truly sorry or to ask for patience as you try to change from using it how you normally do. Rules like this do not create an automatic on/off switch in your brain. Time and understanding from both sides could be in order.

(in reply to ladychatterley)

Post #: 4

RE: I'm Sorry...but I can't stop apologizing.... - 10/27/2006 9:41:44 AM

raiken

Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladychatterley

OK, I'm doing relatively OK with rules, but one. I'm not supposed to apologize for anything, unless he tells me too. Now, granted, I tend to use "I'm Sorry" as shorthand for "I'm sorry to hear that" and "I emphathize with what you must be going through" and "I guess I should have thought of that" and anytime I don't see something as the way it should be. I guess I do it too much. But this is the only place I've repeatedly just not followed through on a rule. And then I want to apologize for apologizing, so it starts to look like a Monty Python routine. Anyone else out there with a similar experience? How have you dealt with it, succesfully or otherwise?

Perhaps your master wishes for you to not get so apologetic, that one day you begin to apologize for simply being alive. You see my point? The brain recieves this programming and what we feed ourselves with and daily "self speak" to ourselves and others, becomes reality. There are many reasons why folks do this: It is an indirect form of control, in that you are taking responsibility or holding yourself accountable for everyone elses shit, or situations, etc. You erroneously over involve yourself, and take on that healers syndrome mentality indirectly empowering yourself by apologizing. As if your apology is offering a quick fix or solution, or just to make folks feel better, etc. It is also an indicator of some guilt and/or self esteem issues, that may or may not be recognized. There are many reasons, these are just some i could think of. Just me. *smile

(in reply to ladychatterley)

Post #: 5

RE: I'm Sorry...but I can't stop apologizing.... - 10/27/2006 9:43:00 AM

ladychatterley

Posts: 132
Joined: 3/10/2006
Status: offline

We've talked some about it. I do apologize too much; I haven't apologized for global warming yet, but just about everything else in the world, I seem to have delusions of grandeur and think that I should have been able to make better. And I also think I should be able to anticipate his wants.

For example, the lamp in my bedroom has only one setting. He said he wished it was adjustable. I said "I'm sorry"--meaning, I guess, "I'm sorry I didn't think about that, when I bought this lamp off of ebay years before I met you...." which is, I suppose, a little ridiculous. He wants me to keep my contrition only for when he says so--and I think that means willful disobedience, or if he wants me to be contrite for something, not for anything accidental or empathetic or anything like that. But this is much, much harder for me to address than other things.

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 6

RE: I'm Sorry...but I can't stop apologizing.... - 10/27/2006 9:44:37 AM

ladychatterley

Posts: 132
Joined: 3/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken

Perhaps your master wishes for you to not get so apologetic, that one day you begin to apologize for simply being alive.

He said something along those lines, and I assured him, I don't apologize for being born, just taking up more than my fair share of oxygen ;)

(in reply to raiken)

Post #: 7

RE: I'm Sorry...but I can't stop apologizing.... - 10/27/2006 10:56:27 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

...Anyone else out there with a similar experience?...orig:ladychatterley

this slave has done it, inappropriately. consequently, Master has specifically instructed this slave not to apologize for things which she has no personal responsibility for. It does not preclude this slave from expressing empathy or caring, it just precludes her from apologizing---being sorry, unless she is asking for forgiveness of an infraction or misdeed on her part.

this slave had the occasion to live in France for a few months and found it interesting that, although there are important words learned in American High School French class, being there is a bit different. conversationally, while actually talking to French folks while there, this slave ran into no casual expression translatable to "I'm sorry". instead of "I'm sorry you have a headache, is there anything I can do?" it was "That's so terrible that you have a headache, is there anything I can do?". Now, if you were really seriously apologizing for some infraction or misdeed, the translation is close to, if not emphatically: "I am desolated by my mistake, please pardon me."

quote:

...like "I love you" when you say it all the time it cheapens it...orig:juliaoceania

quote:

...I have seen this a lot with some people who uses the phrase "I love you" so much in their relationship that it becomes just like asking a stranger or co-worker passing them in a hall "how is it going"...orig: toservez

this slave wholeheartedly disagrees. this slave's folks told each other they loved each other A LOT, and went so far as to honk the car horn three times every time they drove away from one another to signify the three syllables...or dad giving mom three roses when they could have afforded a greenhouse full, and they were the most devoted and loving couple this slave has ever been in the presence of. it is a precious memory, for this slave, their constant expressions of love for each other.

the love this slave receives is never interpreted as cheap or meaningless, now matter how many times it is truthfully expressed. it was said to this slave so many times by her father in the 30 years this slave was blessed with his presence, his voice complete with accent, still replays in her mind...like a song heard on the radio that, after hearing it so much, one has a difficult time not humming along. it is a precious treasure, for this slave, to hum along to the sounds of expressions of love.

(in reply to ladychatterley)

Post #: 8

RE: I'm Sorry...but I can't stop apologizing.... - 10/27/2006 11:09:20 AM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

This is pretty standard among submissives. Think back, did you have an angry parent or someone whom you had to appease in your childhood?

Regardless, it is often rooted in self esteem and the need to please. When I am retraining someone on this sort of issue, I ask them to explain why they are applogizing (they often can't ) and when it is clear they are appologizing for the sun rising, I ask them how they can take responisiblity for that or can they change it. Not long drawn out things but short and succinct. I want them to SEE the behavior at as deep a level as possible.

Doesn't come quick but over a few years you can affect some pretty profound changes.

Punishment for violating this is VERY VERY BAD and highly counterproductive. They feel a sense of failure/disapointment/mistake which I don't want them to. So if I punish them, I am telling them they failed/disapointed me which REINFORCES that feeling rather than disapating it.

Instead I show love, make them explain to me in a way THEY see they did nothing wrong, show more love and move on. This counters the emotional training they recieved which made them adopt this behavior.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 9

RE: I'm Sorry...but I can't stop apologizing.... - 10/27/2006 4:02:38 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

I am breaking myself of this habit by being conscious of what I am saying and learning to improve my communication. My Lord's new job is actually helping with this. He travels a lot in remote areas with poor cell phone coverage. When I do not understand or hear what he says I used to say "I'm sorry" as a way to ask him to repeat it. Now I catch myself and specifically ask if he can repeat what he said.

For me it is just about being aware of what I want to say and the words that I am using to say it.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to ladychatterley)

Post #: 10

RE: I'm Sorry...but I can't stop apologizing.... - 10/27/2006 4:11:10 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

"Im sorry" are powerful words, and he is right, they should not be overused... like "I love you" when you say it all the time it cheapens it. So just try looking at it like that and your "Im sorrys" might lessen over time? It worked for me.

I do not think that overuse cheapens the words. I think it is misuse of the phrase that cheapens the words. To say "I'm sorry" when you are not apologizing is misuse of the phrase. It is that misuse that lessens the meaning of the words.

I know I never get tired of hearing the words "I love you" as long as that is what they actually mean to say. My Lord may say that to me 15 - 20 times a day (if not more) and their meaning has not lessened.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 11

RE: I'm Sorry...but I can't stop apologizing.... - 10/27/2006 4:11:21 PM

krista

Posts: 109
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Hello.....

And here i thought "i'm sorry syndrome" was a Canadian thing....it runs rampant in this country...but then....maybe you don't really have an interest in knowing this......

im sorry....

krista
joy through service

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 12

RE: I'm Sorry...but I can't stop apologizing.... - 10/28/2006 6:49:05 AM

sintralgasub

Posts: 31
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

Perhaps think before you speak. Think of another way to phrase what point it is you are trying to get across.

For example, when he stated he wished the lamp was adjustable, you could have responded "I wish I would have thought of that. Maybe we can shop for an adjustable one together", or something along those lines.

Sounds to me it is more a habit than anything else. Changing patterns of speech can be difficult. Has he tried some behavior modification? A slap in the palm with a ruler or something along those lines? Best of luck to you.

(in reply to krista)

Post #: 13

RE: I'm Sorry...but I can't stop apologizing.... - 10/28/2006 3:37:58 PM

ladychatterley

Posts: 132
Joined: 3/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: krista

Hello.....

And here i thought "i'm sorry syndrome" was a Canadian thing....it runs rampant in this country...but then....maybe you don't really have an interest in knowing this......

im sorry....

krista
joy through service

Hey--I'm American--if I wanted to know about another country, I'd have invaded it already!

Seriously, though--I wonder how much it is cultural. I could be wrong, but I expect this is much more an an issue for women than men.

The desire to please that Crappy Dom noted is very, very there for me, but I also have this weird since of responsiblity that must be a bizarre statement about my own ego and sense of power--I seem to think that I am responsible for:

Kids starving in under-developed countries (am I really giving all I could?),
Global warming (have a taken the threat seriously enough? written enough letters? do I really need an air conditioner),
George Bush (I voted for Nadar--granted it was in a solidly blue state, but if I'd just written one more letter, or known how bad he would be),
Bad corporate governance (should have read their filings before I bought that nick-nack),
Racism (as a white person, I'm living in the benefits of the society that privliges white people, therefore I'm responsible),
Social injustice (there is always one protest I didn't make)
& the New Coke (ok, that one isn't my fault).

So it wasn't so much that a parent was angry, but parents wanted me to know that not only should I try to change the world, but I could. Which of course means it's my fault the world isn't perfect. So, if I'm responsible for global poverty (and failed to fix it, by the way), of course I should be able to read his mind too....

(in reply to krista)

Post #: 14

RE: I'm Sorry...but I can't stop apologizing.... - 10/28/2006 3:48:14 PM

ZenrageTheKeeper

Posts: 237
Joined: 6/26/2005
Status: offline

Watching a submissive apologize too much has always been such a turn-on for me.

Its so heartwarming and so funny at the same time.

_____________________________

If Men never thought with their penises, all you girls would still have cooties.

(in reply to ladychatterley)

Post #: 15

RE: I'm Sorry...but I can't stop apologizing.... - 10/28/2006 4:12:38 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

I know I never get tired of hearing the words "I love you" as long as that is what they actually mean to say. My Lord may say that to me 15 - 20 times a day (if not more) and their meaning has not lessened.

If someone that truly loved me and said it a lot that would not cheapen it, but I guess what I am talking about is someone that uses the word to replace the action, that cheapens it.

Like my Daddy says, if you are sorry, truly sorry, do not do that behavior again. People that apologize and then turn around and do it again, were they genuinely sorry? Same goes for love, someone behaves in a way that tells me they do not value me or have much concern for me but tells me they love me repeatedly... do they really love me? I would have to wonder (and yes I have had this experience)

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 10/28/2006 4:14:22 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 16

RE: I'm Sorry...but I can't stop apologizing.... - 10/28/2006 4:33:04 PM

darksdesire

Posts: 326
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline

When i apologize, i find that there is a small part of me that is asking for reassurance at the same time i'm saying "i'm sorry." My Master prefers that i turn the apology into an expression of gratitude. For example, i'm learning to say "thank you for tolerating my forgetfulness and for helping me to remember" instead of "i'm sorry for forgetting." i like this. It works for me because there is sometimes a tiny bit of manipulation in my apologies and i'm trying to elicit reassurance for my insecurities. This approach cuts through that. Somehow it removes my insecurity as well...

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 17

RE: I'm Sorry...but I can't stop apologizing.... - 10/29/2006 3:53:24 AM

nomansdoormat

Posts: 26
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline

This is my first post, but i just had to jump in, i also have the same 'i'm sorry' problem.
Recently Sir was cooking dinner, with my help, ( he discovered exactly why a Sir would wish to cook for his sub, when he has her naked on hands and knees looking for things in the cupboard

), and i couldnt find the mixed herbs need, and i ended up saying sorry 3 or 4 times, he goes, its ok, no need to say sorry, so then i said sorry for saying sorry

, then sorry for saying sorry for .... you get the picture .... he took me into his arms and kissed me to shut me up, then swatted me on the butt, and sent me back to work with .. you guessed it ... another sorry from me for making him stop what he was doing. * sigh*, thank the goddess my Sir is a patient and loving man.

Sir's dea

_____________________________

I read on one of the profiles that submission is not a gift, its a need.
A need it may be, but still a gift none the less, i submit to no one, except my one, my Sir, to him i give the gift i give to no other, my submission.

(in reply to darksdesire)

Post #: 18

RE: I'm Sorry...but I can't stop apologizing.... - 10/29/2006 4:13:25 AM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline

*sighs*

I do the obsessive sorry thing. I don't know what to do about it. I have, in the past, been told by a Dominant, not to say sorry, and I can bite my tounge but that doesn't change the appologetic feeling. If that builds, it can be corrosive.

And, yes, nomansdoormat, I know the vicious cycle of appologizing for appologizing and all that. Feeling bad about feeling bad is worse that just plain old simple feeling bad about something thats not that bad or even your fault.

Sorry I couldn't be much help except to chime in and say that your not alone. :)

(in reply to ladychatterley)

Post #: 19

RE: I'm Sorry...but I can't stop apologizing.... - 10/29/2006 4:16:25 AM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline

I so much want to edit out that last line because it begins with a sorry. lmao

I cant believe I did that.

(in reply to gypsygrl)

Post #: 20

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