Political Trash Ads...Rant (Full Version)

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nefertari -> Political Trash Ads...Rant (10/27/2006 1:12:03 PM)

I am so tired of political ads that do nothing but trash the opponent regardless of which party it is coming from.  Instead of focusing on what the candidate offers, they focus on slamming their opponent and in doing so insult an entire party - an entire group of people.  When I see these ads, I don't think anything good about the person responsible for the ad.  The information that is used to trash the opponent is generally taken out of context, twisted, and sometimes outright lies.  Both sides are doing it and we are left not knowing what to believe or what either candidate really stands for or is offering as solutions to current problems.  I would hope that our elected leaders would want people to make decisions based on facts and information rather than emotional reaction.

Maybe I'm just naieve, but I would like to see candidates at least attempting to bridge the divide in our country and political parties rather than aggravating it.




pahunkboy -> RE: Political Trash Ads...Rant (10/27/2006 1:14:51 PM)

policitcal science courses teach that this works.

i cancelled most of my tv stations for a few weeks.

:-)




toservez -> RE: Political Trash Ads...Rant (10/27/2006 1:20:16 PM)

Get DirecTv and/or a DVR. Outside of local ABC, NBC etc., no political ads. with a DVR you can skip pass them. Do not know how to get rid of them by politicians not usuing them though, sorry!






nefertari -> RE: Political Trash Ads...Rant (10/27/2006 1:22:59 PM)

Oh, I hate commercials and use the DVR all the time so I can zip past them.  However, I'm also getting things in the mail and phone calls. 

It's more than just avoiding them.  I would just hope that people would be better than that.  Especially people we elect to represent us. 




Lordandmaster -> RE: Political Trash Ads...Rant (10/27/2006 1:29:26 PM)

It has worked in the past for sure.  Remember Willie Horton?  I get the feeling that negative political ads are wearing out their welcome, but until someone proves that they're counterproductive or a waste of money, be prepared to hear a lot of them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

policitcal science courses teach that this works.




NorthernGent -> RE: Political Trash Ads...Rant (10/27/2006 2:28:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nefertari

I am so tired of political ads that do nothing but trash the opponent regardless of which party it is coming from.  Instead of focusing on what the candidate offers, they focus on slamming their opponent and in doing so insult an entire party - an entire group of people. 



We have the same here. This is the age we live in - the majority of the electorate are not interested in what political parties have to offer. They want to see a soap opera or Jerry Springer where each ridicules the other and politics are rarely discussed. Sadly, this is the age of consumerism, marketing and style where principles and substance are secondary. Part of our Conservative Party campaign at the last election simply showed Tony Blair with red eyes on a poster/billboard. I mean, that was it, just Tony Blair with red eyes. Can you imagine anything more pathetic? - but this is the age of advertising where subliminal messages and propaganda do the trick for an electorate fed on reality television.

Do not expect this to change overnight. In Britain, we have serious cultural and educational issues and as the US was the original land of personality over politics then I will take a wild stab in the dark and say that you have the same problems. It is no coincidence that Britain and the US are the two countries in the developed world with the lowest turnouts on election day - people have just lost interest in the whole farce that passes for democracy.

At the moment we're in a lull where people who care don't know what to do to change the system and it's going to take something pretty special to force the issue. For my money, that thing is an economic slump because we've become a nation obsessed with our own personal wealth (and possibly always were).

Apologies in advance for the realism.






Arpig -> RE: Political Trash Ads...Rant (10/27/2006 3:32:34 PM)

perhaps they concentrate on cutting down the opponent rather than focusing on what the candidate offers for a reason; perhaps the candidate hasd nothing to offer that would differentiate him/her from any other candidate.




NorthernGent -> RE: Political Trash Ads...Rant (10/27/2006 3:46:45 PM)

To an extent I take your point.

There is no doubt we have 3 parties offering something something very similar.

However, for those willing to look there are still differences to be found in the 3 parties:

1) The Conservative Party - at its core, low taxation, low public spending, laissez-faire economics, "tough" on law and order (whatever tough means). They make no apologies for cutting off a section of society and being "tough" in order to keep them in their place.

2) The Labour Party - although they have moved towards the right they still offer policies of wealth distribution and public spending. A party for the working man who, sadly, have lost their way. Until 1990 it would have been unthinkable that a Labour Government would have supported the invasion of any country (which supports your point that politics is merging into one centre ground position). It was a Labour Government which refused to send troops to Vietnam under far more pressure than Tony Blair was.

3) The Liberal Democrat Party - traditionally a half way house between the above two but in essence they believe in free market economics which doesn't reconcile with their claims that they support social equality.

There are differences, Arpig. Granted, not what they were say 15 years ago. 




popeye1250 -> RE: Political Trash Ads...Rant (10/27/2006 3:50:09 PM)

I want to know what the candidates are going to DO, not what they think about the person who they are running against.




juliaoceania -> RE: Political Trash Ads...Rant (10/27/2006 3:57:46 PM)

I do not really watch TV very much, this thread reminded me why...smiles




subfever -> RE: Political Trash Ads...Rant (10/27/2006 4:34:10 PM)

I dislike the trash just as much as you do.

However, the most effective marketing techniques are those which appeal to the emotions. Unfortunately, both parties know this. They also know that facts and figures bore the majority.




SirKenin -> RE: Political Trash Ads...Rant (10/27/2006 6:05:43 PM)

I have been seeing some of them up here, as we get quite a number of American stations, including quite a few superstations.  They are laughable at best.  I do not know why you get so worked up over them.  I near pissed Myself laughing when I saw the one where it blew sunshine up the Representative's ass the entire message, and at the end the acclaimed Rep comes on and says "I am so and so and I approve of this message".   ROFLMAO!!!  No shit???  I find it hard to believe that anyone would actually disapprove of  someone blowing sunshine up their ass and painting them out to be a saint.




Sinergy -> RE: Political Trash Ads...Rant (10/27/2006 8:26:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

It has worked in the past for sure.  Remember Willie Horton?  I get the feeling that negative political ads are wearing out their welcome, but until someone proves that they're counterproductive or a waste of money, be prepared to hear a lot of them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

policitcal science courses teach that this works.



When I see an ad for something like Willie Horton, I always wonder why the person who paid for the ad paid the amount of money to bring this information to me, and wonder why they would want to.

But that just me, and I could be wrong.

Sinergy




UtopianRanger -> RE: Political Trash Ads...Rant (10/27/2006 8:55:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nefertari

I am so tired of political ads that do nothing but trash the opponent regardless of which party it is coming from.  Instead of focusing on what the candidate offers, they focus on slamming their opponent and in doing so insult an entire party - an entire group of people.  When I see these ads, I don't think anything good about the person responsible for the ad.  The information that is used to trash the opponent is generally taken out of context, twisted, and sometimes outright lies.  Both sides are doing it and we are left not knowing what to believe or what either candidate really stands for or is offering as solutions to current problems.  I would hope that our elected leaders would want people to make decisions based on facts and information rather than emotional reaction.

Maybe I'm just naieve, but I would like to see candidates at least attempting to bridge the divide in our country and political parties rather than aggravating it.


I'm used to all the trash ads; they don't bother me. But all these new ''terrorism'' ads with the diabolical music in the background; make me sick to my stomach. I just hope the level of gullibility isn't as bad as I think it is.



 - R




nefertari -> RE: Political Trash Ads...Rant (10/27/2006 9:19:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Apologies in advance for the realism.



No apology necessary.  I am a realist and I understand how things work.  But I'm also an optimist and can hope for better.  And I don't expect it to change overnight.  I guess it saddens me in a way that with all of our money, technology, etc people are still not smart enough to want to see the real issus.  Or maybe those in office like to think we are not smart enough.  Maybe they're right.  Or maybe it's just that our nation is so divided right now that all we are interested in doing is tearing down the other side. 

Admittedly,  I've done my share of Republican bashing.  However, I try to stick to the issues at hand:  at what the Republican controlled government is doing - not just bashing all Republicans in general.  At least I try not to.  Afterall, we are all people first.  Hopefully our political affiliation falls way down on our list of priorities after parent, spouse, brother/sister, employee/employer, you get the idea.  The important things.

I guess it all boils down to that I expect better of people.  Maybe my expectations are just too high.

I just want everyone to get along.  [:D]  Is that too much to ask?  (Yes, I do like it in my world.  They know me here. [8D])




nefertari -> RE: Political Trash Ads...Rant (10/27/2006 9:22:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

quote:

ORIGINAL: nefertari

I am so tired of political ads that do nothing but trash the opponent regardless of which party it is coming from.  Instead of focusing on what the candidate offers, they focus on slamming their opponent and in doing so insult an entire party - an entire group of people.  When I see these ads, I don't think anything good about the person responsible for the ad.  The information that is used to trash the opponent is generally taken out of context, twisted, and sometimes outright lies.  Both sides are doing it and we are left not knowing what to believe or what either candidate really stands for or is offering as solutions to current problems.  I would hope that our elected leaders would want people to make decisions based on facts and information rather than emotional reaction.

Maybe I'm just naieve, but I would like to see candidates at least attempting to bridge the divide in our country and political parties rather than aggravating it.


I'm used to all the trash ads; they don't bother me. But all these new ''terrorism'' ads with the diabolical music in the background; make me sick to my stomach. I just hope the level of gullibility isn't as bad as I think it is.



 - R



I received a mailer today from the Ohio Republican Party encouraging me to vote Republican because, it stated, if the Democrats gain control of Congress our America will, among other things, become a safe haven for terrorists.  I'm pretty sure they are counting on "our" gullibility.




nefertari -> RE: Political Trash Ads...Rant (10/27/2006 9:24:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

perhaps they concentrate on cutting down the opponent rather than focusing on what the candidate offers for a reason; perhaps the candidate hasd nothing to offer that would differentiate him/her from any other candidate.


That is exactly what I think when I see/hear/read them regardless of which party it's coming from.




NorthernGent -> RE: Political Trash Ads...Rant (10/28/2006 12:50:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nefertari


No apology necessary.  I am a realist and I understand how things work.  But I'm also an optimist and can hope for better. 

I like optimism and it is certainly the right path to take. It has been said on this board that the Democrat and Republican parties will not offer you a great deal of difference in practice (due to the strangehold big business has on US society). Based on this, realistically, the best you can hope for is a change to the political landscape where people begin to move away from these parties and form political movements based on values such as social equality, human rights etc. As ever, the stumbling block is that large sections of the media in the US, and to a lesser extent Britain, is very consumerism and pro-business focused. As a result, large sections of the population are being fed images suggesting business exploitation and consumerism is a natural and healthy state of affairs. The more I think about it the more I think it is going to have to be done from the grass roots. It is going to take a determined group of people to change the system. It is also going to take various poltical groups to put their differences aside. In Britain, among others, we have around 5 Socialist parties who all fight each other at elections, Green parties, respect parties and large chunks of the Labour party that feel completely disillusioned with this Labour Government and their war mongering policies. All of these people have a common goal and that is human rights and respect for others. However, they hold different views on how this goal can be achieved. In order to form a powerful body of opinion they are going to have to put aside their strategic differences and join as one political movement based around achieving social equality and human rights.
 
There are parallels here with the British Labour Party. This party formed at the end of the 19th Century when we had two main parties (The Conservative and Liberal Parties - both parties for the Middle-Classes). The British Labour party was an amalgamation of various groups with one common aim - representation for the masses i.e. Trade Unionists, Communists, Socialists, Skilled workers, The Unemployed etc. Within 40 years this party was elected into Government and from 1945 the party has made up around half of our Governments.
 
It can be done but if people really want genuine Government (i.e. fulfilling its duty to Govern for all of the people) then they are going to have to do what Arpig alludes to - forget the traditional political parties.

And I don't expect it to change overnight.  I guess it saddens me in a way that with all of our money, technology, etc people are still not smart enough to want to see the real issus.  Or maybe those in office like to think we are not smart enough.  Maybe they're right.  Or maybe it's just that our nation is so divided right now that all we are interested in doing is tearing down the other side. 

I think there is some truth in both i.e. a large section of the electorate is not smart enough and the Government are fully aware of this.
 
As an example, a White House insider has just released a book (you'll know more than me on this one, I don't know the author's background so can't comment on credibility). Basically, he confirms that, in public, the current administration is all smiles and handshakes with the Christian right. In private however, they spend their time laughing at them and basically view them as complete fools.

Admittedly,  I've done my share of Republican bashing.  However, I try to stick to the issues at hand:  at what the Republican controlled government is doing - not just bashing all Republicans in general.  At least I try not to.  Afterall, we are all people first.  Hopefully our political affiliation falls way down on our list of priorities after parent, spouse, brother/sister, employee/employer, you get the idea.  The important things.

A wise path to take. It is concepts, policies and values which really should win the argument. I have nothing but contempt for the British Conservative Party for many reasons but particularly as they were the Government which deliberately set us on this path of neo-liberal economics and big business dominance. As you say though, petty name calling is pointless.

I guess it all boils down to that I expect better of people.  Maybe my expectations are just too high.

I just want everyone to get along.  [:D]  Is that too much to ask?  (Yes, I do like it in my world.  They know me here. [8D])

[:)]  It shouldn't be too much to ask but we have some determined groups who are willing to employ the most underhand tactics to maintain the status quo so it could be a while before we're all one big happy family. On the bright side I'm sure there's certain members of the current administration that you really don't want in your family [:)]







NorthernGent -> RE: Political Trash Ads...Rant (10/28/2006 1:14:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

I'm used to all the trash ads; they don't bother me. But all these new ''terrorism'' ads with the diabolical music in the background; make me sick to my stomach. I just hope the level of gullibility isn't as bad as I think it is.

- R



This reminds me of the 90s when joining the EU was a vote winning issues in Britain.

The Conservative party simply pushed leaflets though people's doors to the effect that we would no longer have the queen's head on our notes or be able to buy and sell our bananas in the British metric system.

It all sounds ridiculous but then we had a market trader who refused to accept the EU directive and went to court for the right to sell his bananas in the British way. Now, I'm all for civil liberties but worrying about your bananas? The fact that the British Government has been stamping all over his civil liberites for centuries had completely by-passed this man and he was blissfully unaware that our European neighbours have a better record of governing for the average man/woman in the street than the British Government.

It's all very comical but it shows that gullibility can easily be tapped into simply by pulling a few strings here and there.




meatcleaver -> RE: Political Trash Ads...Rant (10/28/2006 1:25:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


3) The Liberal Democrat Party - traditionally a half way house between the above two but in essence they believe in free market economics which doesn't reconcile with their claims that they support social equality.



Holland is every bit a capitalistic trading nation as Britain and there is far more social equality than in Britain. They are hard nosed capitalists while believing in social cohesion through high taxes and redistribution, something the LibDems believe in I think. While things aren't perfect here, nowhere is, there is more equality than in Britain.




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