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I am Jack's Attempt at Understanding - 10/29/2006 2:52:23 AM   
Paradoxy


Posts: 51
Joined: 10/23/2006
Status: offline 		Ok, so I pose this question...

How does a dom justify their authority?  I ask since the sub clearly gives themselves up by choice, however, it raises the question as to what the master has to offer in return.

Of course, this is going to get a lot of different responses on how everyone views this (just like any other post).  I'm asking because I'm trying to get a sense of how my authority would be legitimized and maintained (in the most loveing and healthy possible way).
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RE: I am Jack's Attempt at Understanding - 10/29/2006 3:26:33 AM   
ZenrageTheKeeper


Posts: 237
Joined: 6/26/2005
Status: offline 		Depends on what role you wish to take. What level of authority do you most relate with?

A teacher? A police officer? A prison guard? A zookeeper? Dominants and submissives are like fingerprints. How you validate yourself is based on your individual desires and how you want to be seen in your role.




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If Men never thought with their penises, all you girls would still have cooties.

(in reply to Paradoxy)
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RE: I am Jack's Attempt at Understanding - 10/29/2006 3:29:36 AM   
Paradoxy


Posts: 51
Joined: 10/23/2006
Status: offline 		I guess my question was meant to be a little more exostencial than that.  I mean, to the individual sub themselves, what (as Doms) do we have to offer them.

(However, I'm thinking a bit militaristic maybe with Bushido undertones.)

((I keep editing this post for mistakes...better just get some sleep))

< Message edited by Paradoxy -- 10/29/2006 3:38:17 AM >

(in reply to ZenrageTheKeeper)
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RE: I am Jack's Attempt at Understanding - 10/29/2006 3:51:24 AM   
Zensee


Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline 		Not sure what you mean by justify here? Dominance is your nature, not the source of your authority. That is a combination of what your submissive is willing to surrender and what you are capable of handling.

It really comes down to how much and what sort of control you want. Do you want to micro-manage or just guide and inspire? A heavy hand or a light touch? Drama or calm and order? Bedroom domination or full time? There are no right answers. Some like the struggle some like the tranquility.

Authority is dynamic. It will be growing or diminishing at all times. If you are always asking a bit more than is offered you can maintain the tension that expands boundaries and deepens control. If your demands are excessive or ignore hard limits, respect and trust will erode.

You may command obedience but you earn respect, usually by giving lots of it to others. Do you want compliance or service? 0

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"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

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RE: I am Jack's Attempt at Understanding - 10/29/2006 3:52:19 AM   
imtempting


Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		You should of posted this in ask a sub. Also if your a switch you should be able to work it out for yourself..

(in reply to Paradoxy)
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RE: I am Jack's Attempt at Understanding - 10/29/2006 4:15:03 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Let's say you have a submissive. They have a powerful need to please you.... they give themselves to you (NOT as a "gift").... there's the yin....... you have a powerful need to dominate..... you give them structure, rules, and the framework to exercise their need.... there's the yang. You have two halves, of a sort, coming together to form what is hopefully a joyful and fulfilling relationship.

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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(in reply to imtempting)
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RE: I am Jack's Attempt at Understanding - 10/29/2006 4:17:43 AM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Let's say you have a submissive. They have a powerful need to please you.... they give themselves to you (NOT as a "gift").... there's the yin....... you have a powerful need to dominate..... you give them structure, rules, and the framework to exercise their need.... there's the yang. You have two halves, of a sort, coming together to form what is hopefully a joyful and fulfilling relationship.


  Ditto . . . . . .

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The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

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RE: I am Jack's Attempt at Understanding - 10/29/2006 4:23:27 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		A wonderful mentor (vanilla, business) once told me that authority is never given, it is assumed.  At the moment in time that You question Your authority, You have none.  That's not to say we should do self-examination, which i do daily.

What does the sub get from this dynamic?  That of course depends on the individual dynamic of course but for me i find calm in chaos and sense of purpose.  Without a sense of purpose i am possibly worthless.


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Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

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(in reply to imtempting)
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RE: I am Jack's Attempt at Understanding - 10/29/2006 4:53:24 AM   
UnvailedPurpose


Posts: 61
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		Paradoxy:
A hint of Bushido: An honor code, a product in part of Shinotism, Buddhism, Confucianism and Zen. A thinking that brought about the Samurai mindset.   Loyalty self-sacrifice, justice, a sense of shame, honor, refinement, modesty, frugality, manners, martial spirit, purity and affection.
Bushido views justice, benevolence, love, sincerity, honesty, and self-control with utmost respect and justice, the highest mandate in the honor code of the Samurai. 
Love and benevolence were supreme virtues and princely acts. Samurai followed a specific etiquette in every day life as well as in war. Sincerity and honesty were as valued equally with the reason and/or purpose for life and living.
When you speak of Bushido undertones are you then speaking of your responsibility to live within the framework of Bushido?

(in reply to Paradoxy)
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RE: I am Jack's Attempt at Understanding - 10/29/2006 6:23:50 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		I don't justify it.
If a person is not my submissive I have no authority over them to justify, and my authority over a submissive is none of their affair.
If a person is my submissive, then I have no need to justify my authority, it boils down to "I have authority over you because you allow it"



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(in reply to Paradoxy)
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RE: I am Jack's Attempt at Understanding - 10/29/2006 9:44:30 AM   
emdoub


Posts: 223
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Minnenipples, Minnesnowta
Status: offline 		What justifies my authority?  Their consent, of course. 

What do they get out of giving their consent to my authority?  Why, they get someone taking authority over them - which they enjoy.

(Well, that plus I'm pretty damnned good... but modest, mind you.)

It looks pretty lopsided and unfair, until you experience the responsibility that, inescapably, goes with that authority.  Go see the flick 'Spiderman', and ask Uncle Ben what price Peter's gonna have to pay for his amazing powers - there's a quote in there somewhere.

Midnight Writer

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(in reply to Paradoxy)
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RE: I am Jack's Attempt at Understanding - 10/29/2006 2:30:25 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Paradoxy

I guess my question was meant to be a little more exostencial than that.  I mean, to the individual sub themselves, what (as Doms) do we have to offer them.

(However, I'm thinking a bit militaristic maybe with Bushido undertones.)

((I keep editing this post for mistakes...better just get some sleep))


I put what I have to offer in my manual, after the section that states what I expect. Look at the section called "What Fire Has to Offer". I'm betting you'll find you have a lot of the same things to offer in a relationship.

Master Fire


_____________________________

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(in reply to Paradoxy)
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RE: I am Jack's Attempt at Understanding - 10/31/2006 11:46:39 AM   
desoutter


Posts: 91
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline 		How does a Dom justify their authority?
It is what it is -
You are or you arent - I cant think of a time when my authority as a Dom has ever been in question by a sub... Its just there... I think the most loveing and healthy possible way to acheive this is to just be yourself... trust yourself and know your limitations...

As far as legitimizing dominance with a sub - Honestly I have never come across this before... In my opinion a sub is drawn to you by her perception of your strength - inner or other - the sub sees in you the strength she needs and desires... at once you are legitimized. Maintaining that authority is also legitimized by your consistancy as a Dom.

good question,
desoutter

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When the going gets weird... the weird turn pro.

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RE: I am Jack's Attempt at Understanding - 10/31/2006 11:52:19 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Paradoxy

I guess my question was meant to be a little more exostencial than that.  I mean, to the individual sub themselves, what (as Doms) do we have to offer them.

(However, I'm thinking a bit militaristic maybe with Bushido undertones.)

((I keep editing this post for mistakes...better just get some sleep))



Don't buy into the gift of submission line of bushido...............

I ain't met a sub yet who; owning that line; came to Jesus on prom night.

Why justify anything?  If one gives their best, it would be impolite to not accept. (in budo terms)

Ron

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/31/2006 11:53:58 AM >

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RE: I am Jack's Attempt at Understanding - 11/1/2006 1:06:34 AM   
ChaOz


Posts: 98
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Why do I need to justify it? Essentially its a relationship, as long as both players play their part, maintaining the balance of things.. it just IS.

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: I am Jack's Attempt at Understanding - 11/1/2006 1:17:56 PM   
desoutter


Posts: 91
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChaOz

Why do I need to justify it? Essentially its a relationship, as long as both players play their part, maintaining the balance of things.. it just IS.

well put


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When the going gets weird... the weird turn pro.

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RE: I am Jack's Attempt at Understanding - 11/1/2006 6:34:40 PM   
ChaOz


Posts: 98
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: desoutter

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChaOz

Why do I need to justify it? Essentially its a relationship, as long as both players play their part, maintaining the balance of things.. it just IS.

well put




Thanks.. but guess Paradoxy wanted more of an explination so...

It's like every other relationship, there are needs that your partner has and that you have. Would you rather spend 30 years with your wife in missionary while dreaming of fantasies or have her hogtied and living them? As a Dom, you provide the sub with a sense security, and the freedom to live out a diverse and healthy sexual lifestyle but it goes further, you also connect to them on a deep psychological level. There is a powerful connection formed, assuming your in a long term 24/7,  and your resonsible for that. As long as you play with someone who enjoys it, and make sure the relationship is set within healtyh paramaters, not totally abusive or whatever, then your basically like every other couple.. you just have a slanted power structure.Subs dont Dom themselves.. just have an emotional need, and you get to create the environment that lets you both explore each other and have fun.

(in reply to desoutter)
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RE: I am Jack's Attempt at Understanding - 11/2/2006 9:03:30 PM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Paradoxy

Ok, so I pose this question...

How does a dom justify their authority?  I ask since the sub clearly gives themselves up by choice, however, it raises the question as to what the master has to offer in return.


I was given the authority to take charge of my slave the moment she offered herself to me as such.  What do I offer in return? 

Hmmm... I'm a Sadist, she's a wretched pain slut. 

I guide her to perform her duties in accordance with my wishes and she desires to be guided by me. 

I take responsibility for my actions and strive to make the best decisions possible, she desires such behaviors from her Master. 

I provide a safe-ish, stable environment in which she can grow as a slave, which is also something she is looking for.

Perhaps I am missing something in your definition of legitamacy.  Do I have any legal authority?  Of course not.  She could up and walk out at any time, just like anyone else could walk away from their relationships. 

Hope that helps to answer your question.

~Thorns



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~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

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RE: I am Jack's Attempt at Understanding - 11/3/2006 7:23:10 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

What justifies my authority?  Their consent, of course. 

What do they get out of giving their consent to my authority?  Why, they get someone taking authority over them - which they enjoy.

Ditto on that.

I'll also add one more element to it -- that is having the self-confidence to take authority and use it. If you don't believe in what you're doing she won't either and justification goes out the window.




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"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

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RE: I am Jack's Attempt at Understanding - 11/3/2006 8:30:31 AM   
GenderQueer


Posts: 1
Joined: 10/29/2006
Status: offline 		I like the "Fight Club" reference Paradoxy!

(in reply to happypervert)
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