sexual abuse and sexual orientation

sexual abuse and sexual orientation (Full Version)

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whtsubf4DOM -> sexual abuse and sexual orientation (10/30/2006 1:36:23 AM)
I don't really know what to ask here, but maybe there is someone out there who is knowledgeable and/or has experienced what I'm talking about. Can someone speak to this please? I know a sub who was sexually molested by men and women, beginning at age 13. He recently shared with me that they pounded into his head that he would never be of any use to a woman. He obviously has carried those words with him every since and he definitely believes it today, and he's in his 40's. Later in his life, he had relationships with women, the most recent ended less than 6 months ago. He revealed to me that he has always had "performance issues" when it comes to women. It bothers him greatly that he couldn't "perform" with a woman that he was madly and deeply in love with years ago. He now basically has put his full focus on men and he is VERY submissive. He's always been bi, but has very much loved women. Anyway, he chose to go this different route because he doesn't have to worry about his performance issues and he knows he can fully please a man. He's told me before that it's his way of kinda coping with what happened to him, because now he controls what happens or doesn't happen. He's even calling himself gay now, but he hasn't given up giving oral sex to women (he knows he is very good at it, and I have to agree...LOL) Did the sexual abuse set up a blueprint for his life? Is it likely all his beliefs about sex come from that period in his life? Are victims like him really gay? Or is that just their only way to cope. BTW, he has not received therapy yet, but is planning on it. We'll see... Can therapy reveal if he is REALLY gay. Or can he be turned from Gay to Straight through therapy? Not that i'm looking for change. I'm just trying to understand.... Is this common stuff for sexually abused males?

diz -> RE: sexual abuse and sexual orientation (10/30/2006 1:46:22 AM)
Just a very quick knee jerk reply to this post..... sexual abuse unless dealt with via therapy always sets the route on which path you travel.. i have first hand knowledge of this.... i too was abused although i am female unlike your friend who is male.. i have been through therapy and have laid ghosts to rest and have worked through everything.. i am now a very confident and independant person and i make all the right decisions in my life and know that i am where i am because it is the right place to be.. i use to think i was into BDSM because of the ole.. "i have been abused senario" BUT i know i am here because it is my choice and my preference.. AFTER all of that babble... do i think it has set his blueprint for life? yes i do, can this change? yes see my answer to the next question.. Will therapy reveal that he is gay? no i do not BUT it iwll help him discover himself and find what he is happy and at peace with... it really is all about rescuing the inner child that is screaming out for help and to be laid to rest... Th only way he will discover anything is therapy... i wish him luck and hope that he gets the help he so obviously screaming out for....

SirSimonYoung -> RE: sexual abuse and sexual orientation (10/30/2006 2:03:37 AM)
There is an abundance of evidence these days that indicates that ones sexual orientation is determined at/in the womb/birth. While sexual abuse can certainly mess anyone up there is no evidence that it determines one being gay, bi, or straight. Anyhow, best of luck to your friend.

Nikolette -> RE: sexual abuse and sexual orientation (10/30/2006 2:49:33 AM)
If the person in question feels sexually attracted to both males AND females... but avoids relationships with females now it seems like that person IS bisexual and IS just excluding women as an effort to avoid having to deal with the issues that relationships bring up. (aka: coping). I'm bisexual. I am currently in a relationship with a man. I am not really persuing a relationship with a female right now. This doesn't mean I am not bisexual. It just means I am being only with men at this time. This would be true no matter WHAT I was doing because I AM attracted sexually to both genders. There are different avenues to take in belief about sexuality, but I would say that this person should try to recall his level of attraction to genders BEFORE age 13 if he is really in question about it. I knew I was bi forever. Actually as a child I thought everyone was bisexual but we were only "allowed" to marry and make familys heterosexually. (not that I knew those terms, but that was how I felt very young). Of course like everyone I recommend therapy and should say that therapy can help open up doors that this friend wasn't even aware was possible. The average person these days is ill equiped with a healthy set of tools to deal with life's various array of problem. Therapy can give the person these tools. Make sure that the friend knows not to expect any issues magically solved. Therapy is a way to have a guide and a sounding board accessable as a person works out their issues on their own- and the therapist is a trusted and respected individual and the person gets to look to them for reflection when they wouldn't trust their own thoughts independantly, or even come to some obvious healthy thought patterns on their own. Living healthy involves introspection, thoughtfulness, ability to make decisions, and the abilty to healthily manage consequences and being able to be responsible for one's life. It doesn't mean the friend will all of a sudden decide women or men are for him, but rather to be at peace with his choices and understand why he is making them. Best of luck

Aubre -> RE: sexual abuse and sexual orientation (10/30/2006 5:34:53 AM)
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RedSavageSlave -> RE: sexual abuse and sexual orientation (10/30/2006 6:04:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM Later in his life, he had relationships with women, the most recent ended less than 6 months ago. He revealed to me that he has always had "performance issues" when it comes to women. It bothers him greatly that he couldn't "perform" with a woman that he was madly and deeply in love with years ago. He now basically has put his full focus on men and he is VERY submissive. He's always been bi, but has very much loved women. Anyway, he chose to go this different route because he doesn't have to worry about his performance issues and he knows he can fully please a man. He's told me before that it's his way of kinda coping with what happened to him, because now he controls what happens or doesn't happen. He's even calling himself gay now, but he hasn't given up giving oral sex to women (he knows he is very good at it, and I have to agree...LOL) If he is happy with the way his life is going now, I am not understanding the need to question his orientation.

jthorne -> RE: sexual abuse and sexual orientation (10/30/2006 8:30:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM Or can he be turned from Gay to Straight through therapy? I started singing the No Song as soon as I saw this. Sexual orientation is NOT something you can just change. It can evolve and slip around, because sexuality is fluid, but I am firmly of the belief that you are BORN into your orientation. I went from straight for the first 17 years of my life, to 4 years of bisexuality, to realizing who I really was, a lesbian. And I have ALWAYS been one...I had feelings for girls when I was five. Can you tell me my orientation was a choice? No. I was just repressed for a long time. And no, there was no therapy, just me realizing and jumping into what came next. So can anyone be turned from one sexual orientation to another through therapy? No no no no no NO no nooooo...(that was the No Song), not unless they're MEANT to be that way!

RayvenGoddess -> RE: sexual abuse and sexual orientation (10/30/2006 9:12:36 AM)
Yes, it is true that the vast majority of people who are homosexual were born that way. Yet, there is a miniscule percentage of people who were tramatized into being homosexual, usually through sexual abuse. There is no such thing as 100% of the population is like (insert example here) because of (insert explination here). This is mostly with girls who were abused by men who grow up and have an unbridled fear/hatered of men and so turn to other women for love and comfort. It happens with boys as well, but in even smaller numbers. Most of the time, if done early enough therapy can help them through this trama and they can go on to lead the life they were born to, whatever it might have been. Yet at this time, there is no genetic test to pinpoint homosexuality so there is no real way of knowing if a child is supposed to be straight, gay, or bi so there is no real way of knowing if the child has been truely healed. How do I know this? I work with tramatized children in play therapy. In school I have acess to thousands of medical and psychological studies and I have to write numerous papers that need these studies as my back-up material.

SlaveAkasha -> RE: sexual abuse and sexual orientation (10/30/2006 9:44:58 AM)
Having not read other responses, forgive me if I repeat myself, but I wanted to give my reaction, not mine mixed for this one. Could it have contributed to his being "fearful" of sex with women? Yes, I don't see any reason why not. Would it be the reason he is bisexual? No, I don't believe so. Can it be helped? His fears, yes.. his being bisexual, no. I was sexually abused for a few years as a child. This in turn, made me have a fear of getting sexually close with men. I was still attracted to them though, as well as women. My first sexual experiences were all with women, I had other issues for it not being men, and that part didn't have anything at all to do with the abuse, they were other things. I would say there is a good chance that he needs therapy, not everything can be dealt with alone. Yes, he can still enjoy giving oral sex..but why not deal with the things from his past, and be able to enjoy more if the want is there? This won't "cure" him being bisexual, but it will help him deal with fears and anxiety. A lot of people think that abuse has something to do with being bi, or being gay, but that just isn't the case. I know a lot of people who are both, and many, many haven't had anything like that happen. I think it's just more the law of averages. So many girls, and even boys have been sexually abused, that there are bound to be ones that have, that have a different sexual orientation. I am very, very bisexual... I was abused as a child. I have dealt with that abuse, and it doesn't traumatize me at all. Did my sexual preferences change at all after? No, I am still attracted to both. If he wants to change, and isn't happy...then the best thing to do, is to get help to deal with the abuse, not being bisexual. I hope things work out. Kasha

AnAtlantaDom -> RE: sexual abuse and sexual orientation (10/30/2006 2:46:27 PM)
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Dnomyar -> RE: sexual abuse and sexual orientation (10/30/2006 4:53:38 PM)
People can it be that the first person who comforted you after you were abused , man or woman caused you to believe that you were gay or lesbian? Has there been a study on that? Rayven what do your books say about that.

whtsubf4DOM -> RE: sexual abuse and sexual orientation (10/30/2006 10:49:52 PM)
I'm not a professional, but I would think that sexual abuse as a child would screw up everything you know about your sexuality and what you were actually born to be. I don't know... Right now, I just think there is too much inner turmoil for him to really know what he is and what he can become. Very low self esteem and overall just broken. I'm hoping and praying he seeks therapy soon like he says he's going to. Tomorrow wouldn't be soon enough...

servitor1A -> RE: sexual abuse and sexual orientation (10/30/2006 11:08:39 PM)
Not presuming to address the childhood trauma, (thumbs-up to suggestion of KAP), i'd just like to pipe in, (with my 1st CM-forum post), and say don't forget the classic Kinsey scale and the updated, (even more subtle), Klien scales. Sexual orientation can be complex! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klein_Sexual_Orientation_Grid

RayvenGoddess -> RE: sexual abuse and sexual orientation (10/30/2006 11:15:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dnomyar People can it be that the first person who comforted you after you were abused , man or woman caused you to believe that you were gay or lesbian? Has there been a study on that? Rayven what do your books say about that. I have not seen anything like this in my studies. I would find it hard to find examples of this senario though, if it ever actually happens. The majority of people who deal with molested/abused children first after finding out that this horrible act has happened is usually one or both of the parents if they did not do the abuse themseleves. How many parents do you know who, upon finding out that their son/daughter has been violated, would automatically asume that their child might be gay/lesbian and somehow influence their children to think this way as well. I will do a little research on the topic, just in case.

SirSimonYoung -> RE: sexual abuse and sexual orientation (10/30/2006 11:38:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RayvenGoddess Yes, it is true that the vast majority of people who are homosexual were born that way. Yet, there is a miniscule percentage of people who were tramatized into being homosexual, usually through sexual abuse. There is no such thing as 100% of the population is like (insert example here) because of (insert explination here). This is mostly with girls who were abused by men who grow up and have an unbridled fear/hatered of men and so turn to other women for love and comfort. It happens with boys as well, but in even smaller numbers. Most of the time, if done early enough therapy can help them through this trama and they can go on to lead the life they were born to, whatever it might have been. Yet at this time, there is no genetic test to pinpoint homosexuality so there is no real way of knowing if a child is supposed to be straight, gay, or bi so there is no real way of knowing if the child has been truely healed. How do I know this? I work with tramatized children in play therapy. In school I have acess to thousands of medical and psychological studies and I have to write numerous papers that need these studies as my back-up material. Nonesense. The McMartin School trial comes to mind here with their "play therapy". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_Preschool

TreSwank -> RE: sexual abuse and sexual orientation (10/30/2006 11:46:35 PM)
Although I've always believed that the majority of individuals have a sexual orientation that's predetermined by pre-natal hormone exposure, I also think that there happens to be a minute percentage of men, who, because of childhood sexual abuse, limit their sexual relations to other men. I've met WAY too many male homosexual victims of childhood molestation to not see a correlation between the two. RayvenGoddess really hit the nail on the head. Unlike women, men tend to shy away from relating "false" tales of sexual abuse to elicit sympathy from others, and that just gives me more of a reason to believe that those poor young boys were damaged at a vulnerable age. It reminds me of a passage I once read in an adolescent parenting book at the New London Public Library. "If your fifteen daughter comes out the closet, don't get discouraged; because of young girl's sexual fluidity, chances are, it's just "a phase". If your son confesses to being gay, you'd better believe him." A man's sexual orientation is concrete as hell.....................to a certain extent. It's a shame that molestation can twist apart such an essential trait, and cause an incongruity that extreme.

thetammyjo -> RE: sexual abuse and sexual orientation (10/31/2006 8:33:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM Did the sexual abuse set up a blueprint for his life? Is it likely all his beliefs about sex come from that period in his life? Upset the blueprint? I don't think we have blueprints for out lives. Our lives develop through our personalities and through our experiences. I think however that it is highly likely that our sexual desires and beliefs come long before we are teenagers. Even if we didn't have sexual contact before that, sex is just another way of relating to another person so everything we hear, see, and experience affects us. The key is not to change your orientation but to learn to be in charge of making your decisions about what you do with your feelings now. That is not an easy thing to do nor is it painless and cheap. It will take years, maybe a lifetime to learn to recognize patterns of thinking and behavior we don't like or want and to begin having new patterns to follow if we choose.

RayvenGoddess -> RE: sexual abuse and sexual orientation (10/31/2006 11:13:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirSimonYoung Nonesense. The McMartin School trial comes to mind here with their "play therapy". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_Preschool What happened at the McMartin preschool was a horrible, horrible case that was on the extream end of the spectrum. It happened when there weren't a lot of rules governing play therapy. It showed a need for rules and governance in the field. Most of what is done today is truly therapy and is done AFTER the child has had a tramatic incident, not used like a divining rod to figure out IF something tramatic has happend. I have worked with kids whose houses burned down, who watched their fahters abuse their mothers to death, who have siblings with terminal illness, etc. Do you really think that we go around and tell these children that these things happened to them? Oh and P.S.: Wikipedia? Yeah, I'm going to take that site serriously when any idoit wiht an internet connection can go on that site and change as much of the pertinant info about a subject that they want. Find yourself a better source. Not denying that the page there got all the McMartin incident info wrong, just find something more reliable to quote in the future.

SlaveAkasha -> RE: sexual abuse and sexual orientation (10/31/2006 12:20:12 PM)
Did my sexual abuse change things in me? Yes. Did it cause me to be bisexual? No. What it did, was probably make me more interested in sexual things at an early age, though I don't know for sure. I have always been attracted to girls though, and had crushes on guys. It seems the most natural thing in the world to me, and I don't think anything would have changed it. My ex is gay, and she wasn't abused at all. She just finds women attractive and not men. I think that people just want a way to cure something they think is a sickness. So, if they say it was caused by (insert cause here), then it can be cured by (insert cure here). A huge portion of society has been abused in some form or another, so if you take gay people and ask them, you are going to have a percentage of them that were abused, there is no way around it. Kasha

whtsubf4DOM -> RE: sexual abuse and sexual orientation (10/31/2006 2:19:44 PM)
[/quote] Upset the blueprint? I don't think we have blueprints for out lives. Our lives develop through our personalities and through our experiences. I think however that it is highly likely that our sexual desires and beliefs come long before we are teenagers. Even if we didn't have sexual contact before that, sex is just another way of relating to another person so everything we hear, see, and experience affects us. The key is not to change your orientation but to learn to be in charge of making your decisions about what you do with your feelings now. That is not an easy thing to do nor is it painless and cheap. It will take years, maybe a lifetime to learn to recognize patterns of thinking and behavior we don't like or want and to begin having new patterns to follow if we choose. [/quote] I didn't say UPSET the blueprint. I asked if it SET UP the blueprint for his life.

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