RE: Master/Dom difference

RE: Master/Dom difference (Full Version)

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Arpig -> RE: Master/Dom difference (11/1/2006 5:50:13 PM)
it is simply a matter of symantics

Michaelat92544 -> RE: Master/Dom difference (11/1/2006 5:57:14 PM)
It's semantics.

DiurnalVampire -> RE: Master/Dom difference (11/1/2006 6:04:03 PM)
The only difference I have ever actualy seen used that I can almost buy: A Master is Dom with a sub/slave at the time. It is difficult to be Master over a nonexistant subject, so that difference I would give osmone. Beyond that, its all a matter of what someone wants or likes. You could chose to have your pets call you Lord, Prince, or (as Ive seen elsewhere and got a god laugh from) Grand Poobah if it makes you happy. DV

MagiksSlave -> RE: Master/Dom difference (11/1/2006 6:26:42 PM)
Erm this thread reminds me of the sub/slave threads yes its just spliting hairs!! Magik's slave

Rover -> RE: Master/Dom difference (11/1/2006 7:43:30 PM)
I thought some folks might enjoy reading this David Davidson article (if you haven't read any of his work, he's a real hoot) that's rather pertinent to the subject matter. http://www.the-o-zine.com/summer_2005/David.htm John

MasterC46910 -> RE: Master/Dom difference (11/1/2006 8:24:42 PM)
Like LadyHugs, I started in the early 70's. Just in a different venue then the leathermen and I was in the western states. It was a earned title at the time. Showing you learned and experienced a minimum of knowledge and skills to earn it. Was approved by a number of your peers to call yourself such. Now it mostly seems to be a thing of ridicule and mockery with all the new people that know so much better about the lifestyle. I will be the first to admit it has changed a great deal. Instead of the small isolated groups we use to have, we now have the internet to connect us all. In some ways it is better, but in others I don't think it is. I miss the respect and honor you had to actually physically earn in front of real people. Then what do I know, I am only a old fossil...LOL

Daddysredhead -> RE: Master/Dom difference (11/1/2006 8:31:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave Erm this thread reminds me of the sub/slave threads Yes, and thank God, none of these folks have called themselves or others "twue" or "untwue." [;)]

Lordandmaster -> RE: Master/Dom difference (11/1/2006 8:32:04 PM)
OK but like I'm true.

DrgnLdyCatherine -> RE: Master/Dom difference (11/1/2006 9:07:24 PM)
Do you really think it matters if it's an option or not? Do you know how many "Masters" there would be? Everyone would be a "Master". I think the point is moot.

Archer -> RE: Master/Dom difference (11/1/2006 10:59:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover I thought some folks might enjoy reading this David Davidson article (if you haven't read any of his work, he's a real hoot) that's rather pertinent to the subject matter. http://www.the-o-zine.com/summer_2005/David.htm John I went and checked the article out, and while I know it is not an isolated opinion there are some holes in his ideas that beg to be tested. There was a time when if I said "I was awarded my cap by Master X of Atlanta" it would convey exactly what Mr Davidson said it doesn't tell him. That I had shown a level of competence, that I had given service to the community, That I had earned the respect of a certain man and that man would vouch for me. Master X knew that his reputation in the community very much depended on the fact that the people he vouched for were of a certain competence and character. Does it still tell us all these things? Depends, there are certainly names of folks I know who if someone earned there leathers from them I would have a real level of trust. Earned leathers have always been the same as any other character reference, they depend on the reputation of the person giving the reference as much as anything else. In Leather Archer

adaddysgirl -> RE: Master/Dom difference (11/2/2006 2:38:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DrgnLdyCatherine Do you really think it matters if it's an option or not? *i don't think it's of utmost importance, no. i said i personally* would like to see it as an option. Is there some problem with that? [sm=rolleyes.gif] Do you know how many "Masters" there would be? Everyone would be a "Master". Well, i could speculate. i might even find it a bit amusing. I think the point is moot. Well thank you for sharing your kind opinion. [:-]** DG

adaddysgirl -> RE: Master/Dom difference (11/2/2006 2:51:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire The only difference I have ever actualy seen used that I can almost buy: A Master is Dom with a sub/slave at the time. It is difficult to be Master over a nonexistant subject, so that difference I would give osmone. Beyond that, its all a matter of what someone wants or likes. You could chose to have your pets call you Lord, Prince, or (as Ive seen elsewhere and got a god laugh from) Grand Poobah if it makes you happy. DV i can almost buy this too DV. The only problem i have with that are the ones that come on here as a dom, 2 weeks later collar "a slave" here, then come out and say they are a Master because they now have a slave. In that reference, i can't buy it. *Now....i love* Grand Poobah too. i hope my next partner wants me to call him that [sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif] (Although i don't think i could do so with a straight face [:D])** DG

SirLordTrainer -> RE: Master/Dom difference (11/2/2006 4:35:16 AM)
I think Rover, Hugs, Archer and a few others nailed this best. Only to add that My view of 'Master' (or 'Mistress' for that matter), is One who has earned it, and not necessarily awarded that title by some organized sect. In short, I feel it is the ability to not only put in the flight-time to learn these various skills, but also in being able to teach them. Not many average Doms endeavor to do that, and IMV that is the seperation.

Rover -> RE: Master/Dom difference (11/2/2006 6:29:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Earned leathers have always been the same as any other character reference, they depend on the reputation of the person giving the reference as much as anything else. Archer, not only do I agree with your assertion completely, I think it really gets to the heart of the matter in a way that had escaped me previously. And although at first blush you might think you contradict David's article, in fact I think that you're both expressing the same view in different ways. You're absolutely right... leathers are a character reference. And that's essentially what David is saying. They don't convey any particular aptitide beyond being the kind of person that someone else is willing to stand up for and vouch for. It might mean they dutifully organized and ran the community toy auction and bake sale for twenty years. Or it may mean that they are the embodiment of the characteristics and traits that an individual or community value. Or it may mean that they throw a mean whip. You just don't know what it is that leathers "say" beyond the fact that they're a character reference. So I guess what I'm observing, is that leathers no longer "say" very much. Don't take that the wrong way, because in today's day and age a character reference from a known commodity is valuable (value isn't reliant upon quantity). But in this age of instant gratification, a lot of the "MasterMonkeyNuts" types that read about leathers on the internet are simply gonna run down to the local fetish store, buy their own vest and cap, and fabricate the story of how it was bestowed upon them. They already fabricate the rest of their personal biography. I think such "calling cards" worked best when they were "known" only by those in the scene. But today, with the internet, obtaining one's "leathers" (meaningless as it may be) takes no more effort than running down to Toys R Us to purchase a Darth Vader outfit for Halloween. It matters not that they're not "genuine", just that they can claim to be genuine. Cripes, I know I sound like I'm dissing our leather history but anyone who knows me knows that's not accurate. I'm actually saying that our leather history has more relevance now than ever, and dissing the "who are you to say it's not true" crowd who prefer to accept that all things are possible and who make us all less relevant. Did that make sense? John

Celeste43 -> RE: Master/Dom difference (11/2/2006 7:59:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sub4hire Going on a different tangent than those already here. Myself, I see a master as being someone who is in a solid relationship with their significant other. They have sort of mastered that person. A dom, also seeks a relationship or at least you hope so. Yet they haven't gotten to that point yet. Submissives would serve them all with the same passion? I don't think so. I think a submissive would serve their master with much more passion as it is a life choice they have made to be with that person. It has gone deeper than the lust filled relationship all relationships start as. Of course I also agree it is merely a word..and up for anyone's definition. Now this I strongly disagree with. He's a dom, I'm his sub and we are in a strong and passionate relationship of over three years duration now. I'm submissive to him because it's a choice I make, and make over again frequently whenever things are less than ideal. If he suddenly announced that I was a slave with no more choice, I would reject that and him. He also objects to the concept of owning someone who has no choice. He wants me to passionately commit to him every day, not just once. As far as the lust filled part of the relationship, that comes and goes depending on who is more sleep deprived, stressed or sick. Lately it seems all we do is pass a cold back and forth around here.

LadyHugs -> RE: Master/Dom difference (11/2/2006 8:23:07 AM)
Dear Rover, Archer, MasterC46910, ExtremeOwnerIL, Ladies and Gentlemen; You are correct to say that in "our time" leathers was a character reference, just as much as recognition that you had references. Which was all pre-internet, pre support and education groups and pre "academy" groups and associations. Mostly, these seeds were sewn in Gay Leather Bars and Biker Groups who made it their 'base' or 'home.' Tridents, Defenders, Centaur MC (who I might add hosts the Mid-Atlantic Leather 2007 in Washington, DC; January 12-14th; type in Mid Atlantic Leather 2007 in your browser and the rest of the information will be proffered); and so many other groups. Some have died out and some have flourished. That said; like I said before--now days through the Internet and the availability of leather goods; Most just buy their leathers with "MasterCard." But, what is missing; regardless if Gay, Bi-sexual, Heterosexual and or Lesbian--is giving back to the community. The bake sales, the leather swap (a good time to get into some other guy's pants without sex (chuckles)), clear out the unused whips and toys and keep movement in the community and reunite. Fund raising as to help a brother or sister recover losses and or help with their needs; for example Papa to some, Master Doug Harris had a health issue and now after years of helping others, it is time we can help him back. This spirit is what I miss so much. Trigger, the human equine who is known in the pony circles is in need now. The spirit of giving back of our salad days in leather, isn't there anymore. Nobody can be bothered mentality. Another thing missing in the heterosexual community et.al.; is the sense of brotherhood/sisterhood in the Gay Leather Community; they don't have this 'Eastcoast-Westcoast' rivalry. I will say though, drama will exist everywhere as well as the politics within all the communities but, some heterosexual groups don't drop it all when the alarm bells ring and help is asked for. I do see such in the Gay Leather Community, especially when you have leadership that remembers how it was and what they have witnessed. Giving an example; a lass was transferred from the Tidewater area of Virginia and needed a few hands to help. Help was asked for, not a one from their BDSM group showed. Got up here to the area near me, help was asked for in the BDSM heterosexual group--nobody showed. I asked a couple of Gay friends in the M/s lifestyle. Other than the lass' Master, a couple of Gay Masters and a M/s couple that lived close and I came to help. All there, identified as Masters or slaves. Not one Dom Male or Female or submissive showed. This is what is the difference to me. True--people regardless of roles are what is important, as well as their 'spirit of intent.' But--this is an example of community! Respectfully submitted for consideration, Lady Hugs

TndrSdst -> RE: Master/Dom difference (11/2/2006 8:26:56 AM)
Greetings LadyHugs, Just a short note to say Thank You.... There are others who have traveled the Road the Hard way. I started Back in the Late 70's myself. The time of earning your Leathers. Oh how I would love to send a few people thru the old ways..... However there are still a few Houses that follow the older ways.... I am always pleased to meet a fellow Dominant who has earned thier Leathers. Take care.. Till LAter then.. Flogginly Yours, TndrSdst

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Master/Dom difference (11/2/2006 8:35:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TndrSdst Greetings LadyHugs, Just a short note to say Thank You.... There are others who have traveled the Road the Hard way. I started Back in the Late 70's myself. The time of earning your Leathers. Oh how I would love to send a few people thru the old ways..... However there are still a few Houses that follow the older ways.... I am always pleased to meet a fellow Dominant who has earned thier Leathers. Take care.. Till LAter then.. Flogginly Yours, TndrSdst I thought you guys went through the "Hard Way," at least in part, so that youngins like myself wouldn't have it quite so hard and have to go through the shame and the pain and the hiding and the popularity contests that you had to endure? You're coming off as pretty annoyed and resentful that the culture has changed- that what you worked for has actually come to pass to a certain extent. Granted it's very typical for every generation to be annoyed at the younger one and complain about how we have it so easy and we have no respect for the previous generation...but I don't see much respect for OUR generation, and I can tell you that we really don't have it "easy."

Rover -> RE: Master/Dom difference (11/2/2006 8:45:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TndrSdst Greetings LadyHugs, Just a short note to say Thank You.... There are others who have traveled the Road the Hard way. I started Back in the Late 70's myself. The time of earning your Leathers. Oh how I would love to send a few people thru the old ways..... However there are still a few Houses that follow the older ways.... I am always pleased to meet a fellow Dominant who has earned thier Leathers. Take care.. Till LAter then.. Flogginly Yours, TndrSdst Let's not look upon that past as "the good ole days" as if it were nirvana. The scene was not pansexual and inclusive as it tends to be today and heterosexuals and women were not always very welcome (still, rightly or wrongly, many gay leather groups are exclusive in that regard). Often time, making contact with other S/M enthusiasts meant answering anonymous personal ads in the back of magazines. Bondage/discipline and power exchange relationships were only beginning to emerge and were far from commonplace. Educational material was almost non-existent. In many respects, it was the stone age and not something to pine for. John P.S. - Other than a very few broad generalizations, there was no such thing as "the old ways". There were no coherent protocols, customs, etc. that were common throughout the scene.

LadyHugs -> RE: Master/Dom difference (11/2/2006 8:53:19 AM)
Dear TndrSdst, Thank you for your kind words. True, there are a few "Houses" that follow the old ways. I circulated in the Gay Leather circles for a long period before entering the Heterosexual BDSM circles. It was awkward for me coming from high protocol and in-house daily protocol, to a heterosexual community that had few protocols at all. It was like going to a State Dinner to a picnic. The need to understand as one of those who 'earned leathers' or had the experience of 'earning leathers,' is that, although one Guard passed the torch to another generation, (us) and we in a sense are Guards also, the task is finding those willing to accept the torch and become their generation's Guard. It is folly to think that our ways can be forced upon the masses, to which has caused our current Guards to remain rather passive until we're approached. It was the old way anyway. Those who feel their calling will seek out the Guards and only then can the Guards pass on all they have; as to allow that student and future Guard to carry on and maintain a chain per se to the M/s, D/s and S&M history. Perhaps, what is misunderstood in this current 'them or us' mentality; is that everybody has a history. Some history is lived by the standards of the past and some do not. Although others practice the M/s, D/s and S&M mechanically, the ones from the "House systems" and those from the Gay Leather MC/Military veins; practice not only the mechanics but, also the meanings behind the mechanics of it. Perhaps seeing the two differently, would be to see technical correct whip work and a whip master artisticly making their whips speak, work and sing for them. Respectfully submitted for consideration, Lady Hugs

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