another take on guns (Full Version)

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MrrPete -> another take on guns (11/1/2006 2:51:34 PM)

Saying "guns kill people" is like saying "pencils make spelling errors".



caitlyn -> RE: another take on guns (11/1/2006 2:55:28 PM)

But the real question is ... should the pencil apologize for making mistakes? [;)]



LadyEllen -> RE: another take on guns (11/1/2006 2:55:33 PM)

Youre right MrP.

I had a 12 bore muzzle loader for ten years, and I never shot anyone. I've had air weapons for the last twenty years and have never shot anyone.

Mind you, I also rarely make spelling mistakes either.

E



KenDckey -> RE: another take on guns (11/1/2006 2:56:27 PM)

ROFLMAO  Yeah



meatcleaver -> RE: another take on guns (11/1/2006 3:05:20 PM)

Well you don't really need to ask is why are more people shot dead in countries were there are more guns but it might be worth asking why are so many people are shot dead in the USA and why is the USA such a violent society. Maybe it is because violence is an accepted norm that is deep seated in the culture which stems from the broad support for gun law.



Zensee -> RE: another take on guns (11/1/2006 3:08:31 PM)

Pencils make spelling errors when used incorrectly. Guns kill people when used correctly.

The comparison is cute but specious.

Z.
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Quivver -> RE: another take on guns (11/1/2006 3:51:21 PM)


2nd Amendment :  A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
change this, and what's next??? 
 



meatcleaver -> RE: another take on guns (11/1/2006 3:59:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver


2nd Amendment :  A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
change this, and what's next??? 

Less paranoia?



Quivver -> RE: another take on guns (11/1/2006 4:06:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Less paranoia?



sigh... I feel like John Kerry now.  You know what I meant!!!! 
but, since I have to ~explain~ it's like this. 
if they begin to remove rights set forth in the Bill of Rights will it not create MORE
Paranoia when they move down the list? 



Zensee -> RE: another take on guns (11/1/2006 4:13:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver


2nd Amendment :  A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
change this, and what's next??? 
 


Note - the right to bear arms is only as a part of a "well regulaged militia", not as a private citizen for private purpose.
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philosophy -> RE: another take on guns (11/1/2006 4:16:51 PM)

"if they begin to remove rights set forth in the Bill of Rights will it not create MORE
Paranoia when they move down the list?"

...isn't that exactly what the Patriot Act does? Remove rights from US citizens....... 




Quivver -> RE: another take on guns (11/1/2006 4:26:56 PM)

Private citizens are what make it!

Encyclopædia Britannica : military organization of citizens with limited military training, which is available for emergency service, usually for local defense.

for the rest...... http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9052682/militia



Benazir -> RE: another take on guns (11/1/2006 4:49:19 PM)

 A gun is just a machine, a loaded gun can sit on a shelf for 20 years and harm no one. It is only when it is picked up by a human being " the master species{" that it in fact becomes a dangerous weapon.
The reason there are lesser death rates due to handguns in europe and Canada is because of their restrictive gun laws.
When the US Government can assure Me that NO other person has in his/her possession a gun, then they can have mine. but not till then..
and just for your edification  when  quoting the 2nd Ammendment   a militamen is a private citizen soldier. not part of  any component of the army.
There is in existance            in my state of New York,  The New York State Militia, and I suspect other states too.
Ben



LadyEllen -> RE: another take on guns (11/1/2006 5:01:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrrPete

Saying "guns kill people" is like saying "pencils make spelling errors".


............and cars cause fatal collisions. Lets ban cars. Never mind that its the nut behind the wheel who's directed the car into the fatal collision, after all if that nut hadnt got a car, then there would have been no fatal collision would there?

I appreciate that guns are primarily intended for killing/wounding, but as yet I have never heard a rational reason for why I, as a law abiding, tax paying, responsible citizen who'd be amongst the first to defend my country should it come to that, should not be permitted a proper gun for leisure purposes - I dont want to kill anything or anyone. Especially when the criminal gangs running amok in this country run around with guns with apparent impunity with the express reason of criminal activity for their gun ownership rather than leisure?

E



ZenrageTheKeeper -> RE: another take on guns (11/1/2006 5:03:04 PM)

I think too many people like to objectify the word "evil". For example: Guns are evil, Rock 'n' roll is evil, Dungeons and Dragons is evil. Evil is a philosophically subjective term that politicians, spiritual leaders and intellectually weak individuals objectify in order to rally people to their cause.

Guns are tools designed to take life. But they are still a neccesary tool in today's society.

However, we should not be adverse to making sure those tools do not fall into the hands of those irrational few who are incapable of making the sound judgements neccesary to use such a tool responsibly.



LadyEllen -> RE: another take on guns (11/1/2006 5:12:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZenrageTheKeeper


However, we should not be adverse to making sure those tools do not fall into the hands of those irrational few who are incapable of making the sound judgements neccesary to use such a tool responsibly.



and therein lies the problem in the UK ZtK. Only the irrational few (criminals) have the guns. The rest of us are disarmed.

I dont see why this should be. OK we had two nutters with legal guns run amok, and laws were then passed on all, to forbid guns. The police approved these two nutters to have guns, and yet no action was taken against them. It was knee jerk reaction to please the tabloids, as usual.

Anyone like me in the UK, who would like a proper gun, is looked at like theyre some nutter these days. Crikey, if I wanted to run amok and slaughter a few dozen people, as the two above nutters did with guns, I could go down town on a Saturday with a sword and achieve the same massacre. Point being, I dont want to do that and have the rationality to use a gun responsibly, but our government assumes we're all stupid, just so that we're all equal, when in fact we're not all the same.

E



Rule -> RE: another take on guns (11/1/2006 5:22:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
we had two nutters with legal guns run amok, and laws were then passed on all, to forbid guns. The police approved these two nutters to have guns,

What were the names of those two men? A reference?



SissySean -> RE: another take on guns (11/1/2006 5:25:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Youre right MrP.

I had a 12 bore muzzle loader for ten years, and I never shot anyone. I've had air weapons for the last twenty years and have never shot anyone.

Mind you, I also rarely make spelling mistakes either.

E


I kow plenty of hunters, gun owners etc...who are very careful with their guns and have no problem with them, I just had to comment here,
Guns don't have an eraser where you can go back and correct your mistake.



ZenrageTheKeeper -> RE: another take on guns (11/1/2006 5:26:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZenrageTheKeeper


However, we should not be adverse to making sure those tools do not fall into the hands of those irrational few who are incapable of making the sound judgements neccesary to use such a tool responsibly.



and therein lies the problem in the UK ZtK. Only the irrational few (criminals) have the guns. The rest of us are disarmed.

I dont see why this should be. OK we had two nutters with legal guns run amok, and laws were then passed on all, to forbid guns. The police approved these two nutters to have guns, and yet no action was taken against them. It was knee jerk reaction to please the tabloids, as usual.

Anyone like me in the UK, who would like a proper gun, is looked at like theyre some nutter these days. Crikey, if I wanted to run amok and slaughter a few dozen people, as the two above nutters did with guns, I could go down town on a Saturday with a sword and achieve the same massacre. Point being, I dont want to do that and have the rationality to use a gun responsibly, but our government assumes we're all stupid, just so that we're all equal, when in fact we're not all the same.

E


Annually, Americans lose more people in schools than you do in your ENTIRE country from the abuse of guns. Do you have the amount of wildlife comparable to the number of wolves, bears, rattlesnakes and mountain lions we have here? Do auto damages in your country match the millions or dollars paid annually by drivers who hit wild deer and moose?

Even with a few terrorist activities in recent years, I can not see how the UK could use guns.





Zensee -> RE: another take on guns (11/1/2006 5:34:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Benazir

A gun is just a machine, a loaded gun can sit on a shelf for 20 years and harm no one. It is only when it is picked up by a human being " the master species{" that it in fact becomes a dangerous weapon.
The reason there are lesser death rates due to handguns in europe and Canada is because of their restrictive gun laws.
When the US Government can assure Me that NO other person has in his/her possession a gun, then they can have mine. but not till then..
and just for your edification  when  quoting the 2nd Ammendment   a militamen is a private citizen soldier. not part of  any component of the army.
There is in existance            in my state of New York,  The New York State Militia, and I suspect other states too.
Ben


And a cigarette is a harmless tube of plant matter until it is put to it's intended use. Your point is?

I am well aware that a militia is made of private citizens. However, they are uniformed, trained and "well regulated". Someone with a pistol in the glove compartment or a rifle over the door is NOT a militia-man.

What really pisses me off though is when some law-abiding citizen with a lawfully acquired firearm goes ape and commits a crime (usually murder) with it and the gun lobby conveniently re-classifies them as criminal, after the fact, and denies any association or responsibility.

I don't imagine that we can make the world a gun free zone but it is disturbing when some people casually, even laughingly dismiss the obvious danger guns represent. A pistol and a pencil are categorically not the same.

And L.E. - the "cars kill people" argument is the old nag trotted out by the tobacco lobby, ignoring again that cars, when used properly, do not kill people while cigarettes used as intended, do.
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