RE: Vermont

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NorthernGent -> RE: Vermont (11/2/2006 1:53:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy however NG is way out of line when he claims an open thread as his own. There are a whole list of issues (for those who disagree) to get their teeth into (some posted on his thread). As yet, there has been no attempt to counter relevant points made. It has been a lesson in parroting a fear of an ideology. So, do me the courtesy of not suggesting when I'm out of line and the same will be extended to you. If fools want to by-pass the meat of the post and attempt to counter with "socialism blah, blah, blah" then they should expect to be treated like fools. As for the news behind the OP, well, people voted a Socialist into power in Vermont......from a left wing point of view it's a good thing....from a right wing point of view its food for a few bad jokes......woohoooo I think I know what you're getting at but I'm not 100% sure. Can you clarify exactly what you mean by this statement.

philosophy -> RE: Vermont (11/2/2006 2:00:36 PM)
"So, do me the courtesy of not suggesting when I'm out of line and the same will be extended to you. " .......nope, sorry......but that's not how i work. If i'm out of line i expect and hope that others will tell me. i do you the courtesy of treating you precisely how i want to be treated. "If fools want to by-pass the meat of the post and attempt to counter with "socialism blah, blah, blah" then they should expect to be treated like fools." ......and the result of that strategy is inevitably conflict......with the end result of no-one learning anything at all. There are many people on these fora who views i not only disagree with, but consider dangerous. However to treat them like fools merely prevents any dialogue. i prefer to treat them as fellow humans who happen to not share my perceptions.... As to my final point, well basically the Vermont socialist is simply not the first swallow of summer. The second and third ones maybe........but until then we have to consider America a place where socialism is feared. There may come a day when enough americans (and, indeed, europeans) see capitalism and socialism for what they both are......mere human ideologies, not sacred cows. That day is not today.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Vermont (11/2/2006 2:03:12 PM)
quote: As for the news behind the OP, well, people voted a Socialist into power in Vermont philosophy, This is relevant in the same way that we argue on this site about the labels 'slave' and 'submissive'. There are many elected to office throughout the US whose public position isn't discernible to that of a Socialist. Travel to Minnesota, Wisconsin, or some of the northern regions of California and you'll see very socialist political environment. You can't do it in my neck of the woods, LA. Although the stars pontificate claiming socialist positions, their gated homes and opulence of their life indicate, like most, they only know the words to the song - not their meaning. Surely they aren't willing to give any more to the 'cause' than advised by their tax consultant. I'd dare say that on the other side of the equation, there are many who's public positions are best described Capitalist, the thesaurus listed antonym. It matters not the label. How many from the "green party" drive cars? It's more a label for self contentment and rationalization than one of commitment or 'lifestyle'.

MizSuz -> RE: Vermont (11/2/2006 2:08:53 PM)
Haven't a clue if there is a correlation or coincidence between "most intelligent" and won't speculate in that regard. I think it's important to note that Bernie Sanders is a self-described democratic socialist (not just a socialist), and there's a bit of a difference there. Our federal government is bloated, fat and self-important. Local democracies could be the way to go. It seems to work for the folks in New Hampshire. The advantage is that if you don't like the local politics you can always move somewhere that you do like the politics. quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Ladies and gentlemen, take a bow and tip your hat to Bernie Sanders, poised to become the first socialist senator in US history. Did I read on another thread that the good people of Vermont are considered to be the most intelligent when compared with other US states? Correlation or coincedence?

philosophy -> RE: Vermont (11/2/2006 2:13:09 PM)
"This is relevant in the same way that we argue on this site about the labels 'slave' and 'submissive'" "It matters not the label. How many from the "green party" drive cars? It's more a label for self contentment and rationalization than one of commitment or 'lifestyle'. " ....yup, bang on Mercnbeth........it's a bit like putting music in categories, useful only for record shops and sod all to do with the actual tunes.

KenDckey -> RE: Vermont (11/2/2006 2:14:26 PM)
ROFLMAO NG gets to decide who can and can't respond to the thread. That is a new one one me. Wonder if he wants to try to throw me off too? ROFLMAO. Will they elect a socialist? Wouldn't suprise me. They are really close to the Kerry/Kennedy team of democracy LOL NG gets to decide what humor is too? Why? Does that mean that Kerry should hve cleared his humor with NG before he used it? Does that mean that NG is the Humor Master of CM? Beats me. I think the whole concept of humor is funny. LOL

KenDckey -> RE: Vermont (11/2/2006 2:25:29 PM)
OK so I have a question. If vermont is going socialist, does that mean they want to restrict all wages of all people regardless of position, job etc to be the same and require them all to live in exactly the same house style and have exactly the same furniture style and wear the same clothing so that they stay equal? Hmmmmmm so they all go to the minimum wage, tear down all the housing that doesn't meet the requirement, take away everyone's car and cell phone and hold mass meetings of everyone (punishable in some way for not going because they aren't being equal) to decide every issue from the type of toilet paper to buy to what is for breakfast? Just wondering

MistressTruth -> RE: Vermont (11/2/2006 2:25:37 PM)
Did I read on another thread that the good people of Vermont are considered to be the most intelligent when compared with other US states? Correlation or coincedence? Firstly, the concept of intelligence is vague. There are many types of intelligence, depending on the theories one adheres to when discussing intelligence. As far as the people of Vermont are concerned, in general I did not like the people in Vermont when I lived there. I think that a lot of them are pretentious and not very friendly. Socialism is for people that have no ambition to better themselves - they'd rather make everyone else "equals" so they don't have to put forth any real effort This statement wasn't even remotely funny, so I don't see how it could even pass for a joke. I'm not taking it seriously either, either way it's pointless.

NorthernGent -> RE: Vermont (11/2/2006 2:26:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy "So, do me the courtesy of not suggesting when I'm out of line and the same will be extended to you. " .......nope, sorry......but that's not how i work. If i'm out of line i expect and hope that others will tell me. i do you the courtesy of treating you precisely how i want to be treated. If a person, of any background, offering any point of view, posts an opinion on the meat of the discussion then I'm fine with that. However, the facts have been ignored and the concentration has been on the bogey-man mentality and this is no use to anyone. The original post was intended for people with a point of view, any point of view, that amounts to more than "socialism blah, blah ,blah" (ignoring the fact that the man is attempting to retain civil liberties and improve the lifestyle of the average person). As said, if posters can't rationally discuss the meat of posts then it will become a waste of time. "If fools want to by-pass the meat of the post and attempt to counter with "socialism blah, blah, blah" then theshould expect to be treated like fools." ......and the result of that strategy is inevitably conflict......with the end result of no-one learning anything at all. There are many people on these fora who views i not only disagree with, but consider dangerous. However to treat them like fools merely prevents any dialogue. i prefer to treat them as fellow humans who happen to not share my perceptions.... No. It will leave those who want to discuss the crux of a post to get on with it and share knowledge. Ridiculous comments such as those above (parroting the bogey-man) do not help discussion. As to my final point, well basically the Vermont socialist is simply not the first swallow of summer. The second and third ones maybe........but until then we have to consider America a place where socialism is feared. There may come a day when enough americans (and, indeed, europeans) see capitalism and socialism for what they both are......mere human ideologies, not sacred cows. That day is not today. What makes you think people see capitalism and socialism as sacred cows? I'm far more concerned with the fact there is a man prepared to speak out against corporate exploitation as per the $125 billion comment.

caitlyn -> RE: Vermont (11/2/2006 2:26:11 PM)
I don't know if Vermont is the smartest state in the Union ... I would seriously doubt there is a reasonable way to measure such things ... but it is one if the prettiest states I've ever visited. Sort of a backward place though ... all the stores in Burlington had out of date fashions, and 80% of the men had 80's haircuts. You see a lot of plaid flannel shirts, which is funny to me, since the only people that wear those down here are hispanic gang-bangers. I'm also convinced that I was the first actual blonde person that had ever set foot in Vermont. I think about 93 people live in Vermont. There are no cities. I know the people that live in Burlington might think it's a city, but if you can drive all the way across it in less than 20 minutes, it's just a town. Sorry for the highjack ... this post was way too snarky for just the second page.

KenDckey -> RE: Vermont (11/2/2006 2:27:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressTruth Socialism is for people that have no ambition to better themselves - they'd rather make everyone else "equals" so they don't have to put forth any real effort This statement wasn't even remotely funny, so I don't see how it could even pass for a joke. I'm not taking it seriously either, either way it's pointless. YOur right it isn't funny its true

NorthernGent -> RE: Vermont (11/2/2006 2:28:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MizSuz I think it's important to note that Bernie Sanders is a self-described democratic socialist (not just a socialist), and there's a bit of a difference there. Which is the point I made on my second post?

philosophy -> RE: Vermont (11/2/2006 2:32:39 PM)
"Socialism is for people that have no ambition to better themselves - they'd rather make everyone else "equals" so they don't have to put forth any real effort" "YOur right it isn't funny its true " ...no Ken, it's a point of view........i'm sure you believe it, but there are many others who don't. Some people see capitalism as a way of entrenching the interests of those with capital at the expense of those with none. Equally just a point of view.

KenDckey -> RE: Vermont (11/2/2006 2:34:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy "Socialism is for people that have no ambition to better themselves - they'd rather make everyone else "equals" so they don't have to put forth any real effort" "YOur right it isn't funny its true " ...no Ken, it's a point of view........i'm sure you believe it, but there are many others who don't. Some people see capitalism as a way of entrenching the interests of those with capital at the expense of those with none. Equally just a point of view. I thought that was true too

MistressTruth -> RE: Vermont (11/2/2006 2:41:46 PM)
I'm a socialist and I have plenty of ambition to better myself. I just want everyone else to better themselves too.

MistressTruth -> RE: Vermont (11/2/2006 2:47:58 PM)
I knew two blondes in Vermont, one of them was from North Carolina though. I agree that Burlington is more or less a town rather than a city. I thought it was funny when people got offended when I called it a town. The public transportation sucks but bike paths are plenty.

NorthernGent -> RE: Vermont (11/2/2006 2:55:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressTruth I knew two blondes in Vermont, one of them was from North Carolina though. I agree that Burlington is more or less a town rather than a city. I thought it was funny when people got offended when I called it a town. The public transportation sucks but bike paths are plenty. The claim that Vermont houses the most intelligent Americans in the US was posted by an American. I think lorellei. It went through all 52 states based on various factors. I'm only the observer on that one, if people have issue with it then take it up with the poller.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Vermont (11/2/2006 2:59:36 PM)
[/quote] The claim that Vermont houses the most intelligent Americans in the US was posted by an American. I think lorellei. It went through all 52 states based on various factors. I'm only the observer on that one, if people have issue with it then take it up with the poller.[/quote] Considering it's population concentration it's like you saying your are the most intelligent person in the room when you are in there by yourself. True-and just as relevant to connecting the fact with the pole data concerning a self proclaimed Socialist.

ToGiveDivine -> RE: Vermont (11/2/2006 3:02:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy however NG is way out of line when he claims an open thread as his own. There are a whole list of issues (for those who disagree) to get their teeth into (some posted on his thread). As yet, there has been no attempt to counter relevant points made. It has been a lesson in parroting a fear of an ideology. So, do me the courtesy of not suggesting when I'm out of line and the same will be extended to you. If fools want to by-pass the meat of the post and attempt to counter with "socialism blah, blah, blah" then they should expect to be treated like fools. As for the news behind the OP, well, people voted a Socialist into power in Vermont......from a left wing point of view it's a good thing....from a right wing point of view its food for a few bad jokes......woohoooo I think I know what you're getting at but I'm not 100% sure. Can you clarify exactly what you mean by this statement. And there we are with the name calling again. You have Delusions of Grandeur that you are the expert of pretty much everything on which to pontificate. I personally don't find the political points you make on these forums to be helpful, intelligent, or relevant - but that's my opinion and you don't get a say in the matter. But you are quite full of yourself and that's just not the way to go through life. Don't you think there is a fundamental flaw in your logic that you keep having to explain to people how smart you are? If you were as smart as you obviously believe you are, then wouldn't everyone just recognize that fact and you wouldn't have to explain it. On top of that - there was nothing about your original post that was particularly spectacular or earth shattering - on top of that, you even interjected your own bit of humor in your last sentence. There is nothing there that anyone should take as a mortally serious issue that should forbid any humorous response. It's one thing to be full of yourself and right; but you are wrong too often to be that full of yourself. I, on the otherhand, try not to take things too seriously, I don't think I'm right on everything (except I think my opinions on you are dead on), and I have stepped on my dork on occasion and was justifiable flamed for it. What gets me laughing, is you even attacked philosphy and he was on your side of this thread - and from what I can tell, it's because he didn't agree with every single word you uttered. The only saving grace for us is that you are over there across the ocean ... us Yanks will do very well without your assistance. But this doesn't mean I don't luv ya ;-P

NorthernGent -> RE: Vermont (11/2/2006 3:03:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth The claim that Vermont houses the most intelligent Americans in the US was posted by an American. I think lorellei. It went through all 52 states based on various factors. I'm only the observer on that one, if people have issue with it then take it up with the poller. Considering it's population concentration it's like you saying your are the most intelligent person in the room when you are in there by yourself. True-and just as relevant to connecting the fact with the pole data concerning a self proclaimed Socialist. 1) What does the population have to do with it? Have you seen the post or are you attempting to discredit it without actually seeing it? 2) Which self-proclaimed socialist?

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