quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

this supposes an aura of integrity in the first place, and looking about the hemisphere I think we can discount our outward appearances at the outset of that discussion.

Ron

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

I don't agree with pulling out of the country.
 
Despite constant reference to 'Vietnam', this country is not going to stabilize  as that region did as hte historys of the areas are as divergent as possible and the players are too numerous to count - vice the one player in the struggle in Vientnam on the close of hostilities.
 
Everyone decrys America for not jumping in and intervening directly in places like Dafur and Rwanda... for not getting in quicker into the former Yugoslav republics... and, yet we are willing to allow genocide to occur in a country in which we are intimately involved in the process for how they arrived where they are at today.
 
Is our hyopcracy not limited - or, are we boundless in the schitzophrenic nature of the pscyhe of the American people?
 
I believe we ought to stay for stabilization... but, that will be something that has to be managed in a way which would exceed the means thus far.
 
Don't speak  for "integrity" in the same breath as speaking up for removal of the troops... THAT is simply silly.
 
Besides - you do realize that te Hezbollah are not part of the Iraqi splintering - they are an entity mainly based in Lebanon (recently having their rear kicked by the Israelis in an unfortunate miscalculation of how Israel would respond to specific stimulii) amd supported almost entirely by Iran...
 
So, they would (*naturally) desire us to move out - as many of the factions are being directly supported by Iran as they see an opportunity for expansion of their country/economy via a plebecite (Think Austria/Anschluss) and therefore are seeking us to leave as quickly as possible...

~J
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Hizbullah Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah: When We Were Young, I cannot Forget the Sight of American Forces leaving Vietnam, and the Americans Abandoning their Vietnamese Allies, I Anticipate the Same for our Region.

I'm on record saying the US should abandon the country and people of Iraq. This link gives you the perspective of how the other side will view that action:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=23245_Hizballah_Leader-_Like_They_Left_Vietnam&only

There are plenty of "givens". If you want to talk about the past or say we shouldn't have gone there in the first place. I'll stipulate agreement, because its immaterial to the question of "now what?"

I am torn about how to feel about this. I still support withdraw, but there seems to be more on the table within the region than just Iraq. Integrity of a person is hard to reestablish. This situation concerns the integrity of a county, my county.

Your comments are appreciated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

LordODiscipline:
No man stands so tall as when he bends his knee to appologize for committing a wrong.
thompson

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

"When a man bends his knee to apologize, expect him to want a blowjob later."
Caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

LordODiscipline:
No man stands so tall as when he bends his knee to appologize for committing a wrong.
thompson

OK -

But, a poorly quoted platitude is not a solution (nor even a hint of one) -and- without reference it is non-sequitor to the situation and even more useless....

Apologies do not often save lives in the real world (South Africa being the one successful exception to date that I recall).

~J

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

LordODiscipline:
No man stands so tall as when he bends his knee to appologize for committing a wrong.
thompson

OK -

But, a poorly quoted platitude is not a solution (nor even a hint of one) -and- without reference it is non-sequitor to the situation and even more useless....

Apologies do not often save lives in the real world (South Africa being the one successful exception to date that I recall).

~J

LordODiscipline:
It seems to have worked there, perhaps we might in just this one instance try it, could it be any worse than what we are currently doing.  Of course bush &co would not make any money off of it.
I thought my poorly quoted platitude was pretty explicit.  Let me try it again.  Apologize to the Iraquie people for fucking up their country.  Pay them reparations for fucking up their country.  Give them back their elected president. Bring the troops home.
I would have thought that would have been implicit in my statement about apology.  I am sorry I was not more clear.
thompson

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

Once again -
 
A poorly quoted platitude is not ofference of solution.
 
It worked in South Africa because of several things which are missing entirely in Iraq. The first and most important (and, should be abundantly obvious) is a singular unified movement  directing the people in the streets...
Now this would be in Iraq or South Africa?
 
A simplistic solution of "Apologize for the instance, throw money at them and they will all assuredly live in 'Happily Ever After Land'" is flawed illogical, flys in the face of facts and guarantees a massacre the like of which would put Rwanda to shame ten fold... 
That is your position not mine.
 
YOU may sing "I'd like to buy the world a Coke..." while standing outside of the green zone -
Why on earth would I do that?
 
 but, you will assuredly buy a bullet for your efforts and avail nothing by way of a positive movement for a constructive peace .
I have already "bought" a couple of bullets because of people like bush&co.
 
The only thing implicit in your statements is an unrealistic political jingoism
My understanding of the word jingoism is one who is all in favor of war.....perhaps we have different dictionaries....lets consult benji.
 
 and desire to end the current happenings for the United States NOW - it is void of a real world solution to minimize the happenings there and extract in a viable manner
Viable manner....get on the boat and leave is not all that hard to do.
 
 
- not to mention salvage influence where it is so poorly lacking.
I have no idea what you are talking about here.
 
thompson

 
~J
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

LordODiscipline:
No man stands so tall as when he bends his knee to appologize for committing a wrong.
thompson

OK -

But, a poorly quoted platitude is not a solution (nor even a hint of one) -and- without reference it is non-sequitor to the situation and even more useless....

Apologies do not often save lives in the real world (South Africa being the one successful exception to date that I recall).

~J

LordODiscipline:
It seems to have worked there, perhaps we might in just this one instance try it, could it be any worse than what we are currently doing.  Of course bush &co would not make any money off of it.
I thought my poorly quoted platitude was pretty explicit.  Let me try it again.  Apologize to the Iraquie people for fucking up their country.  Pay them reparations for fucking up their country.  Give them back their elected president. Bring the troops home.
I would have thought that would have been implicit in my statement about apology.  I am sorry I was not more clear.
thompson

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

This would be in accordance with Robert Greene's "48 Laws of Power"


but LOL anyway,

Ron

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Only those of us who think with our cock
thompson

quote:

f this occurs the international community agrees that there shall be a massacre as Shiite goes wholesale against Sunni (Iran instigating) with the Kurds contributing minor genocide as they "liberate their land of the invader" and most possibly an eventual incursion by both Turkey (to supress the Kurds) and Iran (as a tacit invite)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

Once again -
 
A poorly quoted platitude is not ofference of solution.
 
It worked in South Africa because of several things which are missing entirely in Iraq. The first and most important (and, should be abundantly obvious) is a singular unified movement  directing the people in the streets...
Now this would be in Iraq or South Africa?
My lord man - is English your first language? - read the paragraph again and connect the dots.
 
A simplistic solution of "Apologize for the instance, throw money at them and they will all assuredly live in 'Happily Ever After Land'" is flawed illogical, flys in the face of facts and guarantees a massacre the like of which would put Rwanda to shame ten fold... 
That is your position not mine.
You very inelloquently stated in your last posting :
"Apologize to the Iraquie people for fucking up their country.  Pay them reparations for fucking up their country.  Give them back their elected president. Bring the troops home." 
 
So that IS your position on the subject.

If this occurs the international community agrees that there shall be a massacre as Shiite goes wholesale against Sunni (Iran instigating) with the Kurds contributing minor genocide as they "liberate their land of the invader" and most possibly an eventual incursion by both Turkey (to supress the Kurds) and Iran (as a tacit invite) 
 
YOU may sing "I'd like to buy the world a Coke..." while standing outside of the green zone -
Why on earth would I do that?
Illiteration - apparently a foreign concept to you?
 
 but, you will assuredly buy a bullet for your efforts and avail nothing by way of a positive movement for a constructive peace .
I have already "bought" a couple of bullets because of people like bush&co.
Yeah - let's swap pictures. Non-sequitor to the topic presently under discussion and something you should work on with a qualified therapist.
 
The only thing implicit in your statements is an unrealistic political jingoism
My understanding of the word jingoism is one who is all in favor of war.....perhaps we have different dictionaries....lets consult benji.
Jingoism is an irrational nationalism based in canned repetetive concepts placed out for the masses by politicos for their inclusion, buy in and regurgitation- which you are amply demonstrating through your rhetorical discourse.
 
 and desire to end the current happenings for the United States NOW - it is void of a real world solution to minimize the happenings there and extract in a viable manner
Viable manner....get on the boat and leave is not all that hard to do.
If we did not put any cogent thought while entering into this (as you would state and have people believe), why would this exit without a single cogent thought about the result be any better - once again, this is hypocracy at it's mindless finest.
 
- not to mention salvage influence where it is so poorly lacking.
I have no idea what you are talking about here.
Yes - you have made that abundantly evident - As mentioned... there has to be some thought into where to go and what to do.

~J

quote:

YOU may sing "I'd like to buy the world a Coke..." while standing outside of the green zone - Why on earth would I do that? Illiteration - apparently a foreign concept to you?

quote:

We have made a big, nasty, fucking mess of someone else's country. Cleaning up our mess and not allowing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians to pay the price of a brutal civil war, would be a good start. Perhaps even a good finish.