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RiotGirl -> Control (11/11/2006 10:31:13 PM)
I was just taking a walk in my mind and i stumbled upon something i think i inadverntly do. Havent spent too much time investigating it other then to decide that i'm pretty sure i'm correct. The whys, wherefores, pos/neg issues, and behavior modification i havent gotten to yet. I'm tired, so i'm abit slow moving tonight. I'm even wondering if its what everyone calls Topping from the bottom. Yet i see myself doing it in all area's of life. I try to passive aggressively control things. All things. Right down to other people's reactions and thoughts. Behind the scenes if you will, almost as if i am "steering" others. Fascinating if you ask me. I study things down to the last detail. And i use the information i gain to direct others and situations. i think we all do it to a degree, yet i'm uncertian of this. I do think it creates abit of a problem in my r/s and most likely stresses me out on a general basis. i tried to do this with something for the past few days. I lied by omission to my Dom, because i knew how something would effect him and i didnt want him effected like that. I saw no reason for him to get upset. What would be the point of him getting upset? None. Wouldnt do any good. Of course, He ended up asking me straight out - and i gave the detail, he got upset and the end result was good. It did do good. So i was wrong on my calculations on that. Which really isnt the point. Point is, it seems like i control things. Either/or i'm very persuasive or i can influence people easily. Which is probably also true. I remember when i was in bootcamp at 17 and to make a long story short, i forced them to discharge me. I brought between 5 and 10 people along for the ride. So much to the point that the DS's took me aside and asked if i could stop talking about being discharged. i've always known i can influence people which ever way i'm going.. So i'm not sure if thats the same thing. Am i just influecing my surroundings to the best of my abilities? <wicked grin> Am i influencing my Dom to the best of my abilities? Just curious on others thoughts on how humans influence/control their surroundings and the people around them. If its normal, if its whats considered topping from the bottom, ect. Really curious as to what others see in their own actions. Do you influence/control? To a degree of course. (as to my own degree i'm uncertian at the mo)

ownedgirlie -> RE: Control (11/11/2006 10:39:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RiotGirl Just curious on others thoughts on how humans influence/control their surroundings and the people around them. If its normal, if its whats considered topping from the bottom, ect. Really curious as to what others see in their own actions. Do you influence/control? To a degree of course. (as to my own degree i'm uncertian at the mo) I used to do that all the time, before I met my Master. I did it because everything felt so out of control to me, so I had to go in and control it all. I thought I could find peace that way. When Master took control of me, I learned to let go of everything else. I no longer felt I had to. The way I see it is, I can not control people and things around me; I can only control how I respond to them.

slavejali -> RE: Control (11/11/2006 10:42:11 PM)
I think in the grand scheme of things, when it all comes down to it, I think all sense of control is illusionary. We are all submitting to something. How's that for a brain twist? [;)]

RiotGirl -> RE: Control (11/11/2006 11:02:02 PM)
hmmmmm.... i agree we are. <grins> Love the twist! But then, control isnt completely illusionary as something IS controlling. Whether it be a fallible human trait or just the wind passing by. Which would mean there are some very interesting things in control. you just made my night jali = )

BitaTruble -> RE: Control (11/11/2006 11:27:00 PM)
Oh hell, I'd be happy if I just had back bladder control. I've resigned myself to the fact, however, that it is a thing of the past. [8D] Celeste

LaTigresse -> RE: Control (11/12/2006 6:13:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble Oh hell, I'd be happy if I just had back bladder control. I've resigned myself to the fact, however, that it is a thing of the past. [8D] Celeste Dotcha just hate those unexpected sneezes?!?! Riot, here is another take on the situation. While you may THINK you are controlling others, you are in so much as they are allowing it. If someone is aware and in control of themself and their behaviour they will not easily give you that control. Regardless of how others are towards us we have the choice in how we handle it.

RiotGirl -> RE: Control (11/12/2006 6:50:01 AM)
Ooooooooo i love thought provoking things. Of course, i'm not completely awake yet. I do like that thought though. You know, i think i am so used to controlling my enviroment that it presents abit of frustration for me with my Dom. He does NOT do what i want most of the time. Maybe its why i like him so much? Though sometimes i slip things by, but always with good intent. Funny enough, Tigresse, i actually was thinking about you as i was thinking about all of this. Dont know why, as i couldnt actually think of anything that i knew about you - acting this way. Does anyone think it is a natural human occurance? The opposite would be to sit back and just let things go. I can see people doing that 100% of the time. I think humans are always doing something to alter some one or some situation. Even when we get on the boards and debates get heated - its because we want the other person to see our way and they wont. We get upset about the things they say and how it conflicts with what we say. Which doesnt sound like "going with the flow" Sounds abit more like what i'm talking about. whatcha all think?

diamonddreamlove -> RE: Control (11/12/2006 7:19:28 AM)
Celeste, had to laugh at your post. Never dreamed I would want to control something so bad in my life lol. Made me think of Sir and ummm His initiation accidently into golden showers. Dang He was not pleased. Riot I believe we do have some control over others but only if they allow it to happen. Oh and btw even tho it turned out well with your Dom this time did He appear upset that you had lied by ommision? Not my business but my Dom would have been very unhappy regardless of the outcome and the final outcome for men would have been a stern talking to (hurts worse than anything else He could do) or another form of punishment.

LaTigresse -> RE: Control (11/12/2006 7:38:49 AM)
Riot, when I see those sort of threads I immediately see alot of power struggle going on and generally find it rather humorous. Sort of like dangling the bait in front of the fish just knowing the fish cannot control themself enough to keep from jumping on the bait therefor the hook, and around and around they go. You saw a good attempt at that in the other thread with the comment about a metal and whatever. That person misread my intent in saying I knew Dianna Vesta, took offense to it and made a snarky comment to try and upset me. While I took notice I don't believe I reacted in the manner they wanted. I just purely found their pathetic attempt humorous and took it that route. Another example was a friend of mine yesterday. She wants to be my submissive but I will never allow it based on this behaviour alone. She does something outrageous to garner negative attention, gets it, feels bad, goes on a drinking or drug binge, feels worse, calls herself worthless to get attention (she wants it to be motherly, example "no you are not worthless" a verbal or physical spanking) then she feels better. Smooth sailing for awhile, then it will repeat itself. Always drama. WELL, I learned a long time ago that she thrives on this negative cycle and refuse to participate. She was in the, "I am such a worthless piece of shit" part of the cycle. I just said "based on what you told me you sure are acting the part, talk to you when you are in a better mood, tataaaa!" Drove her nuts because she did not get the desired response. Now she is pouting. The point is that even toddlers play this game. It is a learned human trait.

Denny17 -> RE: Control (11/12/2006 8:47:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RiotGirl Ooooooooo i love thought provoking things. Of course, i'm not completely awake yet. I do like that thought though. You know, i think i am so used to controlling my enviroment that it presents abit of frustration for me with my Dom. He does NOT do what i want most of the time. Maybe its why i like him so much? Though sometimes i slip things by, but always with good intent. Funny enough, Tigresse, i actually was thinking about you as i was thinking about all of this. Dont know why, as i couldnt actually think of anything that i knew about you - acting this way. Does anyone think it is a natural human occurance? The opposite would be to sit back and just let things go. I can see people doing that 100% of the time. I think humans are always doing something to alter some one or some situation. Even when we get on the boards and debates get heated - its because we want the other person to see our way and they wont. We get upset about the things they say and how it conflicts with what we say. Which doesnt sound like "going with the flow" Sounds abit more like what i'm talking about. whatcha all think? control is what we do or at least the ones that are delusional. humans are creatures of survival hence its only human to do whatever it takes (control) to survive but in this universe where the only constant is change is useless. There is no real control. Tomorrow will bring whatever it may. All predictions are matters of probability. better to what you say: go with the flow then because like she said in the song who knows what tomorow brings. yah sure we need to take certain measures for our benefit (control) like study hard in school for good grades and stuff like that. but generally speaking quit grasping so hard for outcomes and getting you panties all caught up in a bunch because you aint gonna makes anything happen (mostly) that the universe is gonna listem.

Denny17 -> RE: Control (11/12/2006 8:48:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RiotGirl Ooooooooo i love thought provoking things. Of course, i'm not completely awake yet. I do like that thought though. You know, i think i am so used to controlling my enviroment that it presents abit of frustration for me with my Dom. He does NOT do what i want most of the time. Maybe its why i like him so much? Though sometimes i slip things by, but always with good intent. Funny enough, Tigresse, i actually was thinking about you as i was thinking about all of this. Dont know why, as i couldnt actually think of anything that i knew about you - acting this way. Does anyone think it is a natural human occurance? The opposite would be to sit back and just let things go. I can see people doing that 100% of the time. I think humans are always doing something to alter some one or some situation. Even when we get on the boards and debates get heated - its because we want the other person to see our way and they wont. We get upset about the things they say and how it conflicts with what we say. Which doesnt sound like "going with the flow" Sounds abit more like what i'm talking about. whatcha all think? debates are natural. everyone is a philospher and philosphizes on life. all of us do

RiotGirl -> RE: Control (11/12/2006 9:23:07 AM)
lolololol LaTigresse, i'm going to have to admit i'm abit confused with your point here. Atleast i'm not sure how you got to it and what the point of making the point was. Wait.. i think its coming to me. Hey i had like 4 hours of sleep last night - shoot me! I have always found you intelligent and insightful, so i know you're point is in there. So you're saying that the threads i speak about are power struggle threads? Toddler games? People trying to create reactions in others. Kind of like when my kid was one and she'd turn off the TV while my mom was watching it and look directly at my mom for the oncoming reaction. <chuckles> Off/on Off/on Off/on. I swear my daughter was fascinated with how the TV actually controlled my mother. OFF! and my mother has a cow.... ON! and she's quiet.. OFF! <dies laughing> It WAS funny. I still tease my mother all the time about it! So thats what you're saying about the threads? i never actually thought about it like that. I always thought it had to do with a lack of understanding, acceptance, and a willingness to live and let live. Kind of like an immature out look on life that the world has to be "your" way and that there is no other "right" way. Which unfortunetly for the vast majority of people, the only "right" way is the way each of us choose for ourselves, which is often not similiar to anyone elses "right" way.

RiotGirl -> RE: Control (11/12/2006 10:22:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: diamonddreamlove btw even tho it turned out well with your Dom this time did He appear upset that you had lied by ommision? Not my business but my Dom would have been very unhappy regardless of the outcome and the final outcome for men would have been a stern talking to (hurts worse than anything else He could do) or another form of punishment. Well he wasnt happy, he more so thanked me for not telling him, sarcastically. He was more pissed off about the occurance. Which really took 95% of his upset. As well, when he asked me - i was honest. Plus he understands my motives and understands i was trying to save his feelings. Whats he going to say? "Dont worry or care about my feelings? On top of that, do NOT do your best to make sure i stay in a good mood?" I think people lie by omission all the time to save others feelings. Its called knowing who you are talking to and knowing what pushes their buttons. Plus, i have an unusual relationship as it is.

MagiksSlave -> RE: Control (11/12/2006 12:16:32 PM)
I dont mean to sound rude but it seems like you just defined beeing menipulative... It sounds like a negative title but it is what you just described... I to was always very good at makeing people see what I wanted them to see and get the effects I wanted.. in the long run this wound up not always beeing so good for me (I was able to hide some problems I had that needed to be adressed and werent in a timely fassion because I was so good at covering them up). Simply because I can do something like get my way doesnt mean I should.... Im good at makeing people think what I want them to think and often times to do what I want them to do. I work very well on a psycological level. I try very hard not to do this with Master and I guess he knew from the beginign I could do this so he strongly inforses the no lieing period and lieing by omition will get my Butt blistered (as well as other parts) By telling him EVERYTHING that is going on in my head it gives me much less controll over him and myself and lets him have absolute controll over me. It has gotten to the point that he can now read my mind he KNOWS what Im thinking befor I do and knows when Im not telling him something. So this has deffinetly helped curb my ability to controll situations like I used to. It has also made me step back and look at things when I try to controll things with other people. It is not always good to controll others in anyway and others will see it as Menipulation and as a bad thing weather or not we mean it to be that way!! Magik's slave

TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Control (11/12/2006 2:07:04 PM)
IMO..when a relationship first begins it would be utterly impossible to instantly give up all control, to me it is a progressive thing.So hence as time goes by he will recognise more and more what you say, why you say and all reasons behind them. The control on your part will lesson not necessarily by your will, but by his understanding the motivations and outcomes you are attempting to achieve.In other words he will know you inside and out despite any attempts on your part to get anything by him.Of course this is not an absolute, it is dependant on the Dominant in question, wether it is the OPs , mine (in the future..grin) or someone elses...and again IMO riot girl, though you may have topped from the bottom as some call it, I feel personally it was just your way of protecting your Dominant from unnecessary angst.....be well...Tempting...humm I sense another thread...

MsIncognito -> RE: Control (11/12/2006 3:23:32 PM)
[fast reply] Passive-aggressive behaviour is just a vanilla way of saying 'topping from the bottom" and it's one personality flaw (yes, I do think it's a flaw and a big one at that) that I am hyper-sensitive to. As soon as I sense that some is being-aggressive I pick up my ball and go home (mentally if no physically). I prefer direct communication rather than indirect manipulation. IMO, it's just another form of dishonesty and I don't care for that in my life.

sissifytoserve -> RE: Control (11/12/2006 3:33:14 PM)
Not suprising this is so common place since we live in a passive-agressive society.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Control (11/12/2006 6:21:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavejali I think in the grand scheme of things, when it all comes down to it, I think all sense of control is illusionary. We are all submitting to something. How's that for a brain twist? Jali, what came to my mind in the car tonight is simply "We cannot control the process of relationships"

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