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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 1:33:05 PM

Morrigel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
I only wish more doms would stop letting their ego prevent their slaves from giving them the same benefits.

It's not "bdsm" which is the catalyst, it's life, it's forming a solid and healthy connection with someone who actually IS secure and understanding. We just happen to use bdsm because that's our conduit.

I see your point, but I was not just talking about the transformative power of love and compassion generally. I'm talking more about the re-invocation of sensory impacts and verbal triggers, the re-staging of traumatic experiences, which can work on the mind and spirit at a very deep level.

Obviously there are reasons why this may work a bit better if one is the sub rather than the dom in a scene. But I agree...love and understanding can do a power of good for ANY human being.

--M

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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 1:56:06 PM

gypsygrl

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I, personally, have never identified as a dominant, and one of the things that initially attracted me to the general community is that I don't have to. In the rest of my life, I have a lot of responsibility and leadership is always falling into my lap no matter how much I try to evade it (this is on my mind because I'm trying to out run the PTO at my kid's school which is in the process of falling apart, and I dont want to be left with the pieces) and its a lovely fantasy to turn over some of that responsibility to someone else without risking life and limb or a sense of my own integrity. Through bd/sm I've been able to do that in bits and pieces, and in being able to do that areas of myself have been opened up to me.

As for self esteem, nobody has high regard for themselves in all areas all the time. Self-esteem, if conceptualized as a fixed quantity that can be measured, like it were water in a measuring a cup, is a myth much in the same way IQ is a myth. My self assessment can vary wildly depending on whats going on in my life. I feel that's a realistic way to be. If I'm in a new situation, I feel insecure. If I have to do something that I've failed at before, I question my ability. I've done some incredibly stupid things, and can't help but wonder about it. These might be considered esteem issues, but I prefer to think of it as being honest with myself.

I have insecurities around sex and sexuality because I've known about my kinky tendencies since I was a little kid, but, for a long time, repressed it. I repressed it for the same reason many lesbigays repress their sexuality. For a long time, the practices surrounding bd/sm have been considered psychological disorders and/or criminal acts. Under such conditions, maintaining a healthy sense of self is a real achievement. We all have a tendency to internalize the negative judgements of our culture, and I don't see any reason why self-identified submissives would be above this, especially when they are new.

One of the things I've learned since coming to collarme and reading the boards is to keep separate "masochism" and "submission." I had never really thought about it before, but keeping them separate is making more and more sense. Lately, I've been thinking more about my masochism than my submissive tendencies, and am amazed at how many forms it takes. I'm not really in a place where I can say something coherant about how those two things intersect in my mind but its a good question.

Interesting post. Thank you. :)

(in reply to Shylahgirl)

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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 2:22:55 PM

toservez

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Self esteem and this life is not directly related. Submissive personalities that have major self esteem issues are often classic enablers going from one similar bad situation to another. Dominant personalities that have major self esteem issues are often classic abusers. Put one with the other and you have a bad situaion. A dominant or a submissive can be in this life and be totally meant for it and also have problems with their slef esteem at the same time.

Are there some of both that wander in the life only because of the issue sure but most probably do not last in the life unless they get stuck with their opposite and repeat the pattern they have lived before. We are all at some point in our life or multiple times looking for the happily ever after situation. People will wander and try things to find this. That include people with low self esteem wandering into this type of life, and like healthy people who wander in, some are meant for it and some are not.

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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 2:42:18 PM

CreativeDominant

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mnottertail...I still say, go for the Sambouca.

As for the OP...I've met a few submissives who started out as dominant. Their reasons for leaving dominance and going to submission varied...they did not like it/could not handle it/were more comfortable acting in a submissive fashion/etc. I have met a few submissives who came from abusive backgrounds who did have self-esteem issues but none of those felt like they "deserved" beating/degradation. I know of only one female dominant in personal experience who went from submissive to dominant...she was my submissive several years ago.

I think that, like any other area of life, people move into what suits them. Some never seem to find it and spend their whole lives searching for that key that fits their personal lock. Others are pretty sure from a younger age who and what they are and where they fit in this world and little happens to change it. I don't think a generalization can be made except from a personal standpoint.

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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 2:52:18 PM

missturbation

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Part one: Why is it when first entering the BDSM lifestyle so many people, more often then not say they are dominant rather then submissive?
I personally never thought i was dominant.
Part two: Why is it that some new submissives that I’ve seen who come into the lifestyle wanting to be submissive usually have some kind of self esteem problem?
I didn't have self esteem issues when i entered the lifestyle. I do now but thats a different story lol.

As has been said before i think you need to research this theory a little more.

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RE: What do you think? - 11/14/2006 2:56:58 PM

SweetEscravo

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This does seem to be the case with many people in the lifestyle, whether they're here on collarme or elsewhere. I guess I am one of the few exceptions though, because I entered into the lifestyle, as a submissive, simply because it gave name to desires I'd always had.

I think that a lot of new submissives are pretty overwhelmed with everything in the lifestyle. Honestly, it can all seem pretty scary from the outside, even if you want someone to tie you up and beat you. Sometimes protocalls, ediquette and all that can be intimidating as well. Maybe some new submissives feel it is easier to be dominant and so they take that path first?

The outside vanilla world also seems to be more accepting of the dominant. Maybe it's just me, or just my generation, but the word "dominatrix" seems to stir up good feelings in a lot of men. Being that dominant, or dominatrix has a kind of fantasy appeal to a lot of vanilla people, but the thought of being submissive may be a little more scary. I think that fewer people can identify with the urge to give up control because we, especially Americans, are always taught to take more and more.

I don't know if this is going to make sense to anyone, but it kind of did in my head.

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RE: What do you think? - 11/15/2006 1:06:24 AM

AlexAussieSub

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I've never been a Dom so I can't answer the first question.

As for the second it's well known that people with low self-esteem gravitate towards abusive relationships. Probably some of see being a Sub as another way to find an abuser.

(in reply to Shylahgirl)

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RE: What do you think? - 11/15/2006 1:59:19 AM

Subbrina

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shylahgirl
Part two: Why is it that some new submissives that I’ve seen who come into the lifestyle wanting to be submissive usually have some kind of self esteem problem?

In my experience a lot of these people want to be hurt and humiliated because they think that they deserve no better and need to be punished. (I’ve just met a few people like this and have a hard time understanding why they’d think submission is a way of punishing your self)

I think the answers about these women being in abusive relationships and coming here is very true. I myself was in several different abusive relationships before I found the lifestyle and I always loved and hated part of those relationships because I got the humiliation I desired but never the respect. Unfortunately, for me that isnt how I managed to find my way here. I am one of those women who felt like I needed to be punished and I actually came into the lifestyle 9 years ago looking for someone to beat me to death, literally I wanted to die and I felt like I deserved for another human being to do it. Very sad, but very true. At the time I lived in Houston and interestingly enough I found a Dom that unknown to me had a very bad reputation for going overboard or being entirely too edgy or not following the SSC rules. Maybe those people lied (although Ive heard some great stories..lol) or maybe I touched something in him due to my own situation and he ended up being the best thing that could have happened to me at that time. He figured out what I was looking for on his own and led me down a path that many of his last friends felt was truly wrong. If not for him I probably would have found someone to kill me, and without him I would have not been able to face my own demons and discover this lifestyle that I honestly came to love because of him.

I'll always be greatful to a lil short red headed man with a broken coffee table...lmfao

subbrina

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RE: What do you think? - 11/15/2006 5:33:04 AM

princessrn

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i to have seen this as newbies they quickly put them selfs ina box to be accepted by others and in the same factor i have watched many ask the question you new ? what are you Dom/Domme or sub ? forceing the box maybe we could come up with a new box newbie searching !!! ive been put in to every box going by others Domme , switch , minxy sub , topping from the bottom , strong minded sub , and beautiful sub ..... at the end of the day im me ive always been round strong minded people and find i like my place with in the safty surrounding the perfect match for my needs not cos i suffer from low self esteem because i fit in to that place...

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