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The One? - 2/8/2005 8:11:13 AM   
fullokinks


Posts: 12
Joined: 12/29/2004
Status: offline 		The fact that I switch may certainly influence my opinion on this, but is anyone else a little creeped out by the capitalization of third-person pronouns that subs use to refer to their tops? Hey, I have an absolutely wicked dom side, but nobody should idolize me! As a man I am worthy of deference and respect, as a lover I demand obedience and submission. Save your worship for the all-powerfull spiritual force that made you what you are, me what I am, and us together everything we can be.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: The One? - 2/8/2005 8:19:04 AM   
sweetpleaser


Posts: 689
Joined: 8/5/2004
From: Florida
Status: offline 		I agree with you about the capitalization thing. I believe it started with "online protocol". It is used to show respect for the dominant. I personally believe there is an equality to this dynamic. Both the dominant and submissive get something out of the relationship. I won't call my dominant sir, I call him by his name. That is what he prefers as well. I suppose it is different among M/s relationships which I have said on many occasions I am not wired for.

By the way, I love your profile, it is very warm--welcome to the boards!

_____________________________

~ann~

It's not the men in my life that count, it's the life in my men.--Mae West

(in reply to fullokinks)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: The One? - 2/8/2005 8:35:40 AM   
Ojedieu


Posts: 142
Joined: 1/17/2005
From: Michigan
Status: offline 		Yup. I don't know if it creeps me out but I certainly find it a little annoying. I prefer standard English usage and capitalization. What I find a little worse than that for parsing are the capital and small letter combos with or without the slash (i.e."Y/your" or "Yyour"). I prefer to think that I know what I am without having to be reminded of it by a capital or lowercase letter. It also just makes reading easier without caps, duplicate letters and slashes sprinkled throughout.

Ojedieu



< Message edited by Ojedieu -- 2/8/2005 8:38:50 AM >

(in reply to fullokinks)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: The One? - 2/8/2005 8:43:36 AM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		Hi, you might find this helpful. A lot of us feel this way about the capitalization and third person pronouns.

Capitalization Conundrum

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to fullokinks)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: The One? - 2/8/2005 8:57:23 AM   
Wolfspet


Posts: 143
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline 		I hate that the "One" affectation.

It somehow implies that
A) they are omnipotent
B) they are soemhow superior

Dominants, male or female are people just like the rest of us.

As for the slashy shit & improper capitalization (Me, My Him), to me is just indicitive of too little real life experience, and a penchant for cyber reality.

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: The One? - 2/8/2005 9:03:43 AM   
Moleculor


Posts: 189
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline 		I've found the capitalization thing of "Dom" to be rather infectious due to the fact that I've spent 6.5 years in Germany, where they capitalize all their nouns. I try not to, but do it accidentally from time to time.

That said, I despise the S/slashy shit, and wish the people who invented it would die. Messily.

(in reply to Wolfspet)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: The One? - 2/8/2005 9:14:13 AM   
Darthbetta


Posts: 314
Joined: 12/16/2004
Status: offline 		Glad I am a DOG amongst ass-backwards people sometimes though...

_____________________________

Some of us have an inane knack for calling people on their Bullshit... I just choose to retort with bitter dry Sarcasm, and occasionaly it sinks in. Mostly, I just look like an ass.

(in reply to Moleculor)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: The One? - 2/8/2005 9:34:38 AM   
Ojedieu


Posts: 142
Joined: 1/17/2005
From: Michigan
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily

Hi, you might find this helpful. A lot of us feel this way about the capitalization and third person pronouns.

Capitalization Conundrum

Lily



Good conversation -- thanks for the link Lily :)

Ojedieu

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: The One? - 2/8/2005 9:51:29 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I hate that the "One" affectation.
It somehow implies that
A) they are omnipotent
B) they are soemhow superior
Dominants, male or female are people just like the rest of us.


Wolfspet,

This isn't a topic I would normally comment. It's like complaining about what's on TV or the radio. Most TV's and radios come with buttons or knobs that enable most to change the channel or even turn if off if the subject matter isn't to your liking. Don't like the manner which someone posts - Don't read it.

Maybe this perspective will help you understand or at least appreciate something about the dynamic of using this style of writing. Recently there was a thread posted about how to maintain submissive head space in a 24/7 relationship. A real time 24/7 relationship. The third person writing style, speaking style, and the capitalization of any reference to the slave's owner is a tool to accomplish this goal.

Training involves visual, tactile, auditory, and mental reinforcement. A "collar" can be represented by a real collar, maybe in disguise as a necklace. The lack of panties/bra and a shaved pubic region give tactile reminder. Third person speech is the auditory training tool. Writing and communicating requires mental commitment. If you doubt it's effectiveness - try it. It takes an effort to speak in third person. It is work to write, especially when the computer tries to correct you all the time and capitalizes 'i'. For the Master, hearing and seeing the slave communicate in this manner is empowering, also reminding him of his position in the relationship.

I'm not trying to change anyones mind about this but thought I'd give a perspective from someone who does live with this protocol. It also covers another aspect of this lifestyle that is often ignored. In the beginning of a relationship if a Dom sets rules he/she should be prepared to give reasons for them. The communication and dialog will be beneficial to both. The topic- "What is the relationship GOAL". The rules/protocol should be directed to that goal, and they should make sense to BOTH parties.

For us - the goal was 24/7 live in real time M/s. We've achieved it, we are working very hard to maintain it. And as much as outside vanilla issues try to interfere, we resort to our Contract and Rules to remind us what is truly important; not me not beth - US.

BTW 'Wolfspet' - What about possessive names for submissives derived from their Dom's name. Why doesn't that bother you???

quote:

From Darthbetta: HAY I took the bucket off my head ! [/B]


Pity!

(Again "Evil Merc" possessed the keyboard fingers!)

(in reply to Darthbetta)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: The One? - 2/8/2005 10:11:24 AM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		As for me, i follow standard protocol i have learned and write my name in smal letters here. i also write i not I whenver i can remember it. And Dominants names i write whit capital letters. i will also call a Dom Sir or similar if he ask me to. i will however not all others then my Dom for Master, and i will not call somone for God or Goddess, if they are not, for religious purposes. i vorship at my altar and when i look up at them and fell Her power, not pepole.

As for third person speatch, i find it werry intruiging. i have talked whit some Gorean girls and i find their way of speaking werry interesting. But all of this is a matter of personal taste. i prefer to avoid stepping on pepole toes, so if anyone want me to call them Sir i will, but i do not go around calling all for that.

i know that for some, espesiacly pepole that get cramps from incorect luanguage, saying somthing like this: valenia greets A/all that desides to answer her post. And she would like to thank all of them. This is hardly a corect way to speak, it is the way that smal children and pepole that do not know the luanguage werry well use words. But it has its purposes. it is a way of reminding the submissive or slave of what place he or she has.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: The One? - 2/8/2005 11:15:44 AM   
Wolfspet


Posts: 143
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

I hate that the "One" affectation.
It somehow implies that
A) they are omnipotent
B) they are soemhow superior
Dominants, male or female are people just like the rest of us.


Wolfspet,

This isn't a topic I would normally comment. It's like complaining about what's on TV or the radio. Most TV's and radios come with buttons or knobs that enable most to change the channel or even turn if off if the subject matter isn't to your liking. Don't like the manner which someone posts - Don't read it.

the topic was about not liking the term, I believe my reply was appropriate.
quote:


Maybe this perspective will help you understand or at least appreciate something about the dynamic of using this style of writing. Recently there was a thread posted about how to maintain submissive head space in a 24/7 relationship. A real time 24/7 relationship. The third person writing style, speaking style, and the capitalization of any reference to the slave's owner is a tool to accomplish this goal.


Umm, I have been in the scene for 23 years, and married to my Master for the past 16 years.
I was trained in a "Old Guard" tradition in Richmond, Virgina. I have never done anything but what you describe as "real time 24/7"

quote:


Training involves visual, tactile, auditory, and mental reinforcement. A "collar" can be represented by a real collar, maybe in disguise as a necklace. The lack of panties/bra and a shaved pubic region give tactile reminder. Third person speech is the auditory training tool. Writing and communicating requires mental commitment. If you doubt it's effectiveness - try it. It takes an effort to speak in third person. It is work to write, especially when the computer tries to correct you all the time and capitalizes 'i'. For the Master, hearing and seeing the slave communicate in this manner is empowering, also reminding him of his position in the relationship.

Please do not condensend to me. As I said I am quite aware of training.
quote:


I'm not trying to change anyones mind about this but thought I'd give a perspective from someone who does live with this protocol. It also covers another aspect of this lifestyle that is often ignored. In the beginning of a relationship if a Dom sets rules he/she should be prepared to give reasons for them. The communication and dialog will be beneficial to both. The topic- "What is the relationship GOAL". The rules/protocol should be directed to that goal, and they should make sense to BOTH parties.

This style of protocol originated by those who tried to emulate the more militant style of the Old Guard while applying "old fashioned" het values.
quote:


For us - the goal was 24/7 live in real time M/s. We've achieved it, we are working very hard to maintain it. And as much as outside vanilla issues try to interfere, we resort to our Contract and Rules to remind us what is truly important; not me not beth - US.

BTW 'Wolfspet' - What about possessive names for submissives derived from their Dom's name. Why doesn't that bother you???



That is your style, fine, but once again, in the spirit of the OP, I don't have to like it, anymore than you have to like my style.

Wolfspet is actually a accurate description of WHO I am. I am a pet, a toy, a friend, a confidante and a subordinate.
He is my Owner, my Master, my friend.
He is not some mythical being that is deserving of adoration, as the term "One" implies. he is a falliable man who has taken a hold of me emotionally and physically and enslaved me to him.


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: The One? - 2/8/2005 11:44:40 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Umm, I have been in the scene for 23 years, and married to my Master for the past 16 years.
I was trained in a "Old Guard" tradition in Richmond, Virgina. I have never done anything but what you describe as "real time 24/7"


Wolfspet,

Thank you very much for your response. I note from your profile you're from Vineland. I lived in NY/NJ for my first 44 years and had a summer place in Toms River. I also note a difference in your profile to this post.

quote:

We have been in a M/s relationship for 15 years, and married for 6.


Based on your posted age that would make you 16-17 at the beginning of your lifestyle experience, something else we have in common.

Never intended to be condescending in any way. I have a habit of always looking at profiles before posting to a thread. May times after looking I choose not to reply at all. Picked your post to hit the reply button only because your profile seems to indicate an experienced real time person. I think that puts you (and I) in the minority here, but that's just my opinion.

I'll be honest and say although I've heard of "Old Guard" and had other people tell me that my 'style' was "old guardish", but I've never tried to do so. My understanding of "Old Guard was that it was a formal protocol/training established in the gay leather community. I've hung around many clubs in NYC where many referred to themselves as "Old Guard", but didn't see much difference from a strict M/s relationship. I'm sure I was around it enough for it to have influence, but I don't label myself as "old guard". "Old Fashioned?" Yeah, and getting older by the day unfortunately. Set in my ways - ABSOLUTELY.

Anyway, I don't think we have a overall disagreement. Look forward to you and your Master's posts. As I have with beth, it appears your Master didn't inhibit your spirit or restrict your communication with others. Curious if you know, is that in opposition to "Old Guard". If it isn't it's another departure I have with that identification.

If your travels ever take you to the left coast please look us up.

(in reply to Wolfspet)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: The One? - 2/8/2005 1:43:01 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Ah... Angel's favourite discussion!...lol... I am sure I will end up repeating myself... so I will refrain if I can.

I have been what I am since I was born(IMO)... and I have practised and explored since I was 15 yrs of age. No it was not sexual at that time, before the moral brigade come down upon Me. But I was fortunate to have beautiful, wonderful people to guide me.

I am a submissive. I cap my Own name. Because its a 'Proper' Noun.
I am a submissive. But that doesn't make me less of a person. I am a strong, independant woman who loves her Dominant and who wishes to idolize the Man I love. The Man I have been with for over 15 yrs? The Man who allows me to be all that I am and can be to my fullest potential with His gudence and His love and His compassion? Who has the right to take that away from me?
No One.

I have never, and do not believe in 'The One'. But that is a personal choice.

Some people do not believe in a higher being. So making their Dominant as such, or lifting them up in a kind of exaltation is what they have. But that is a personal choice.

I do capitalize. That is my choice and the choice of who I converse with. If someone doesnt like it, then they have the choice not to read what I have to say. Does not mean I change, or alter. If I am conversing with someone who really cannot stand the caps, and it is someone I respect then I dont use them - all they have to do is say. At times, it allows me to get into the head space of where I and the Dominant I am submitting to wants me to be.

It has nothing to do with online or real time, but I truely believe it is a very big cultural difference. In the UK, 'proper' english is still used in certain sections. Third person speach can be used within a scene. In Germany, they capitalize quite often, also in Scandinavian countries.

The people I see complaining it 'creeps them out ' the most or seem to want continuous discussions about how 'wrong it is', are Americans. Bad spelling and grammer can make a letter or posting hard to read, but if I want to read it, I will make the effort. I do not complain, as it is a personal preference and it is not my wish to impose my choices on anyone.
I enjoy blood play. Must I stop, just because it 'erks someone else and makes them shiver?
Must people who enjoy rubber, stop because the thought of the threat to the enviroment is erksome to someone?

Please remember, that if its not your kink, then just let those that use it for their own enjoyment alone.
Its not harming you.
It isnt harming the community on the whole.
And it's a personal choice.

If You do not like it, pass it by.

As always
Peace and Love

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Wolfspet)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: The One? - 2/8/2005 2:12:56 PM   
Wolfspet


Posts: 143
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

>snip<


After rereading what I wrote, I really must apologize or coming off like the bitch from hells last rimrock.

Yeah, I was 16, and in the lesbian leather community. It was interesting.

We really do not practice any style but our own these days, and it is 16 years now, and it is simpler to just say married than dissertate the time frame.

Perhaps we will bump in at Folsom this coming year.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: The One? - 2/8/2005 2:22:27 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		No problem and didn't think you were the least 'bitchy' especially when I saw you living in NJ. Felt just like home!

quote:

Perhaps we will bump in at Folsom this coming year.


GREAT! Did you go last year? We thought we were in 'heaven'. Planning on doing the 'Folsom Fringe' too? We'll be there! Keep in touch, either here or direct.

(in reply to Wolfspet)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: The One? - 2/8/2005 3:36:00 PM   
GentleLady


Posts: 356
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfspet

As for the slashy shit & improper capitalization (Me, My Him), to me is just indicitive of too little real life experience, and a penchant for cyber reality.



Regretfully I still have a few buttons that can be pushed and being labelled is one of them. I use that "improper capitalization" and "slashy shit" because that was the way it was done when I first went on-line to BDSM sites three years ago. I continue to use the Y/y M/y slash when I am making a general reference rather then a personal one. I find it helps others to realize that what I am saying is not directed at them personally. It is difficult enough to convey emotional content using only the spoken word unless the person is a qualified writer.

Personally I do not care either way and judge P/people on their actions and behaviours rather then whichever protocols T/they have learned. Every culture has different rules and it behoves the travellor/visitor/immigrant to learn the rules applicable to the current culture.

Now the fact that I have been on-line for only three years and follow (mostly) the on-line protocols I was introduced to is in no way indicative of the amount of real life experience I have or do not have. That sort of generalization pushes My buttons every time.


_____________________________

All things are possible to those who have patience, try, and are willing to learn.

(in reply to Wolfspet)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: The One? - 2/8/2005 4:15:55 PM   
LordODiscipline


Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fullokinks
Save your worship for the all-powerfull spiritual force that made you what you are, me what I am, and us together everything we can be.


The Army??

Wonderingly -
~J

(in reply to fullokinks)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: The One? - 2/8/2005 9:41:24 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		Access Denied

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 3/15/2005 10:44:04 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: The One? - 2/9/2005 6:06:16 AM   
Wolfspet


Posts: 143
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GentleLady


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfspet

As for the slashy shit & improper capitalization (Me, My Him), to me is just indicitive of too little real life experience, and a penchant for cyber reality.



Regretfully I still have a few buttons that can be pushed and being labelled is one of them. I use that "improper capitalization" and "slashy shit" because that was the way it was done when I first went on-line to BDSM sites three years ago. I continue to use the Y/y M/y slash when I am making a general reference rather then a personal one. I find it helps others to realize that what I am saying is not directed at them personally. It is difficult enough to convey emotional content using only the spoken word unless the person is a qualified writer.

Personally I do not care either way and judge P/people on their actions and behaviours rather then whichever protocols T/they have learned. Every culture has different rules and it behoves the travellor/visitor/immigrant to learn the rules applicable to the current culture.

Now the fact that I have been on-line for only three years and follow (mostly) the on-line protocols I was introduced to is in no way indicative of the amount of real life experience I have or do not have. That sort of generalization pushes My buttons every time.



You are absoloutely right, you are free to do it however you choose. Just as I am free to dismiss it. It is annoying to read. That is my choice.
This is a communication medium, and if I have to pick through the slashes to read, I won't bother. Which is a pity,because sometimes I miss things that are really insightful.

I can see that it has its place in chatrooms or whatnot, if that is your thing. But in general communication, it is out of place.

(in reply to GentleLady)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: The One? - 2/9/2005 6:10:01 AM   
Wolfspet


Posts: 143
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline 		We went to the fringe 2 years ago, I usually hang with friends from B . com or the SM Oddessy group.

If we can come up with a sitter, we hope to be attending it this year as well.

Please feel free if you decide to "come back home" to drop a note. *we are real close to Atlantic City, lol*

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 20
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