Real life "mentoring" (Full Version)

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CrazyC -> Real life "mentoring" (11/15/2006 8:15:20 AM)

Ok i have read all the stuff here about on-line mentoring, and that many feel it is a hoax. But i got really upset when i heard about a Dom who was doing it in real life. I feel it was a heated debate...though i think he was just enjoying seeing this side of me and egged it on. (Trust me...he is close to the off list for that shit.)

ok what bothered me...

He said he needed to tell her who was right for her and who wasn't. That she couldn't make decisions on her own, and that he needed to go through everything she did before he approved of anything. He mentioned that this behaviour is normal for those who are borderline slave.

Ok so what do i have a problem with...when did we start encouraging woman to stop thinking for themselves? i understand and have seen first hand that there are some women from past abusive experience or never learning who really do have a hard time listening to their head and more go on the feelings. (Feeling that might be only based on infatuation, and never on solid feelings.) i am wondering though why as Doms there is this philosophy that there is no process of empowering these girls. i find this "I'll make all the decisions for you, so you don't have to learn." very much enabling the victim problem.

I am figuring that some of you don't perscribe to this theory. so any insight of why they feel it is a rightful way of dealing with it? Do any of you use a more empowering mentoring and if so what are those techniques?



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Real life "mentoring" (11/15/2006 8:25:06 AM)

The essential piece is that you can't make someone a victim in this sense without their cooperation.  Trust me, for every dork mentor there is out there who wants the ego stroke of having to make decisions for someone without the responsiblity of accountability to it...there's a sub longing to feel cherished and told she's "a good girl" and more than willing to be protected and have someone take over their decisions for them.

It's the blind double edge in Ds- subs screaming they aren't doormats, while also screaming how necessary finding a mentor to prevent them from making the wrong choices.  Doms insisting that subs are strong people, while simultaneously highlighting their weakness and NEED to be guided by another.



AquaticSub -> RE: Real life "mentoring" (11/15/2006 8:57:44 AM)

I would say this is complex and LA noted very well some of the issues subs deal with, a desire to not be a doormat and the desire to please. I do think that having a mentor could be a good thing. If I were single and I had a dominant I could trust I might ask for a collar of protection, just to make sure I didn't do anything stupid, but I would retain the right to remove it and be with who I wanted even if that dominant didn't approve. Obviously I would listen to them first and weigh for myself if their opinion outweighs mine.

However, most of the dominants I know either don't me know me well enough to know what would make me happy, then there are the ones who I just don't trust to be making those decisions for me, and there are a select few who wouldn't want to release me from the collar because they would like to keep me for themselves. A mentor dominant is great idea in theory but I don't know how well it ever works out in real life.



daddysliloneds -> RE: Real life "mentoring" (11/15/2006 9:12:50 AM)

mentors don't rule someones life or make decisions for them; they are there to guide, assist, answer questions, bounce ideas off of, etc.  they are also supposed to do this with an open mind,  and without an vested interest in the person they are mentoring...

and most times, they don't 'play' with and/or 'train' doms or subs unless it's in an area of their specialty or technique of some sorts, say like cuttings, bullwhips, etc. or with health and other safety issues. 



TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Real life "mentoring" (11/15/2006 9:13:55 AM)

IMO...I was thinking why a mentor Dominant? why not a mentor submissive/slave?A sub/slave with experience in WIITWD, to help you through the morass of newbie mistakes, one with absolutely no possible hidden agenda.People of like ummm... Bitatruble's ilk who have been there, done that, with a great deal of common sense but one who also has a very deep sub/slave heart...Ach! just thinking out loud here....Tempting



toservez -> RE: Real life "mentoring" (11/15/2006 9:17:41 AM)

I cannot say I have ever run into to a mentally healthy dominant that enjoys taking so much power and thought process from their slave that it renders the slave into the victim category. The dominants and submissive people you talk about in these type of relationships are not in a healthy place.

There is so much focus on the mental health of submissives and especially female submissives that often dominants are not looked thru that microscope as well. A dominant looking for that much control in which rendering another person to the degree that you speak of is a person with deep insecurities and/or low self esteem. Their drug of choice is being able to control another to that type of degree and when put in a mentoring situation not wanting or having the ability to take responsability.

There is a very big difference between consensual non consent and giving up free will. A perons who gives up what is best for themselves has given up their free will and is just not mentally healthy. A person who enjoys or needs someone like this is also not in a good place mentally.

For all the mentoring fans out there let me state there is a big diffeeence between giving guidance, advice and experience then telling another person they know better what is best for them, which is what i am referring to.





AquaticSub -> RE: Real life "mentoring" (11/15/2006 9:19:34 AM)

I took the question to be relating to dominant mentors.

Other submissives are a great resource for information and of course they can be, and indeed are, mentors. I am a mentor for a friend of mine who is just entering the lifestyle though they are a more of a dominant. However, a dominant is more commonly respected by other dominants. Even as a taken submissive I am sometimes bothered by dominants who try to "steal" subs. I can completely understand a desire of a single submissive to have a dominant mentor who would step in and help handle the situation.



Argentopal -> RE: Real life "mentoring" (11/15/2006 9:29:41 AM)

HI,

I hate the word "mentor" because it has become so watered down in all walks of life.  Guide, or advisor, or counselor might be better for my way of seeing it in this life.  Argent and I have been asked by a few couples to "mentor" them simply because we have been together for so long and seem (to the outside) to sort of know what works in a 24 7 Ds life.  What we tell them is that what works for us may not be what will work for them.  But we do tend to become friends with these couples and as a result we spend time with them, they spend weekends at our house, and we talk, we talk a lot.  I can be pretty blunt and when I see one partner being "passive agressive" or ignoring something or whatever, I will call them on it, point out how it can damage what they say they are trying to work towards and try to help them understand why they are at odds over whatever it is.  We do not do "classes" but just live our life and try to offer advice if we can.  It turns out, as often as not, we have learned somethign from each of them as well, and have built a great network of Ds frineds.  As a sub I have also "mentored" 2 male doms and imho, it worked much better than I have seen male doms mentor other male doms, because there wasn't the big clash of male-dom-egos.  They were really willing to listen and understand things I said, and since I was an f-sub trying to help them deal better with f-subs, it was as if they felt like I was letting them in on big female secrets or something.

In the case of m-doms having the power to say who someone may and may not see, communicate with and so on ... can we use the word bull-shit here?
MsOpal



emdoub -> RE: Real life "mentoring" (11/15/2006 9:47:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrazyC

He said he needed to tell her who was right for her and who wasn't. That she couldn't make decisions on her own, and that he needed to go through everything she did before he approved of anything. He mentioned that this behaviour is normal for those who are borderline slave.

Ain't it lovelerly, when you see someone either dominating or proto-domming (collar of protection, collar of consideration, testing collar, collar of the week) someone whom they obviously respect and hold in high regard?
quote:

Ok so what do i have a problem with...when did we start encouraging woman to stop thinking for themselves? <snip> i am wondering though why as Doms there is this philosophy that there is no process of empowering these girls. i find this "I'll make all the decisions for you, so you don't have to learn." very much enabling the victim problem.

That's not at all just the BDSM community - it's endemic in our society as a whole. 

How are these people going to feel needed, useful, and in control if they let people grow into not needing them? 
quote:

I am figuring that some of you don't perscribe to this theory. so any insight of why they feel it is a rightful way of dealing with it? Do any of you use a more empowering mentoring and if so what are those techniques?

Why they do it?  Well, you've gotta get your "ain't I a great DomlyDom" kicks somehow.

I'd like to think that anyone I've done any training with is more empowered thereby.  I've never wanted to dom or own anyone because they needed my guidance - I've always preferred to guide them into knowing how for themselves, then benefit from the service of competent, capable adults.

When I 'mentor' some sub, it's by way of giving advice and asking questions that will lead to them understanding themselves better - I really like the Socratic method.  Unless I've collared someone (and I won't collar for mentoring - my collar means one thing and one thing alone), they make their own decisions, and live with the consequences of them. 

Then again, I don't much do the "must ask ProtectiveDom before approaching the sub" thing - from any side of the equation.

Midnight Writer



MstrssPassion -> RE: Real life "mentoring" (11/15/2006 9:56:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds

mentors don't rule someones life or make decisions for them; they are there to guide, assist, answer questions, bounce ideas off of, etc.  they are also supposed to do this with an open mind,  and without an vested interest in the person they are mentoring...

and most times, they don't 'play' with and/or 'train' doms or subs unless it's in an area of their specialty or technique of some sorts, say like cuttings, bullwhips, etc. or with health and other safety issues. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

IMO...I was thinking why a mentor Dominant? why not a mentor submissive/slave?A sub/slave with experience <snip>


These two posts are dead on!!

I also agree with what Argentopal said about the term becoming so watered down.

It seems that somewhere down the line people began to combine a lot of the things that a "trainer" would do, with what a "protector" would do & mix it up with what a "mentor" would do & came out with some new thing that reads to me more along the lines of a do what I say, with whom I say type of tyrant with a non- committal collar of ownership & free reign to partake of gratuitous sex & play whenever they feel like it ... ummm, no this isn't mentoring.




KatyLied -> RE: Real life "mentoring" (11/15/2006 10:18:23 AM)

A "mentor" is just another way for a guy to get into a girl's pants, while all the while appearing as if he's kind and helping her in the big bad world.  Don't buy it.



mnottertail -> RE: Real life "mentoring" (11/15/2006 10:54:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

A "mentor" is just another way for a guy to get into a girl's pants, while all the while appearing as if he's kind and helping her in the big bad world.  Don't buy it.


CrazyC,

As you said; you enjoy my emails.

MasterMentor



MistressSassy66 -> RE: Real life "mentoring" (11/15/2006 11:03:29 AM)

I have to agree with MistressPassion...the posts She quoted are dead on.

I have done some Mentoring in the past few months and I dont tell them they have to do this or that.
I offer My real life experiences as guide...and none of it is set in stone as all people are different.

My personal feelings is that person is not keeping your best interests in mind.



CrazyC -> RE: Real life "mentoring" (11/15/2006 1:43:27 PM)

First, He isn't mentoring me. lol...I'd like to see that Dom who tries to. Anyway...Ron does a great job of teaching me stuff to look for. ;)

I am concerned, because this guy has been her mentor and she is still making the same mistakes of trusting where there is no reason to trust yet. I know it is completely concern for her that he does it, but some his theories just didn't jive. Like the assuming she can't learn to take care of herself, and not wanting to empower her.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Real life "mentoring" (11/15/2006 1:46:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrazyC
I know it is completely concern for her that he does it, but some his theories just didn't jive. Like the assuming she can't learn to take care of herself, and not wanting to empower her.

There's a reason so many take the "mentor" route- it makes the sub take down the guards they have up against "doms" because they feel less threatened and makes for a much easier way past someone's defenses.



agirl -> RE: Real life "mentoring" (11/15/2006 2:25:32 PM)

I'm left wondering what *borderline slave* is.....lol.

That is just silliness......possibly an ego stroking pursuit. If a girl needs someone to go through everything that she does and is not able to make decisions alone at all, it stands to reason that she's not really the best candidate to be choosing a Master, let alone much else in life....including a mentor.

agirl





agirl -> RE: Real life "mentoring" (11/15/2006 2:31:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrazyC

First, He isn't mentoring me. lol...I'd like to see that Dom who tries to. Anyway...Ron does a great job of teaching me stuff to look for. ;)

I am concerned, because this guy has been her mentor and she is still making the same mistakes of trusting where there is no reason to trust yet. I know it is completely concern for her that he does it, but some his theories just didn't jive. Like the assuming she can't learn to take care of herself, and not wanting to empower her.


Protecting people from themselves isn't always the ideal way for them to learn. I know that from experience. If someone makes the same mistake again and again they are either choosing to do so and ignoring the possible outcome, or they are switching off and not thinking about the possible outcome. Either way, sometimes the ONLY way to learn a lesson is to get hurt, a lot,.....enough to MAKE you think.

agirl



Kalira -> RE: Real life "mentoring" (11/15/2006 2:55:10 PM)

quote:

I'm left wondering what *borderline slave* is.....lol.

I am curious about that also. [&:]



AquaticSub -> RE: Real life "mentoring" (11/15/2006 3:04:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira

quote:

I'm left wondering what *borderline slave* is.....lol.

I am curious about that also. [&:]


Is it what happens when you breed a sub and a slave?



LadyHugs -> RE: Real life "mentoring" (11/15/2006 3:33:36 PM)

Dear emdoub, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
You posted in your reply, to CrazyC's quote, ("He said he needed to tell her who was right for her and who wasn't.  That she couldn't make decisions on her own, and that he needed to go through everything she did before he approved of anything.  He mentioned that this behavior is normal for those who are borderline slave.")
You replied; "Ain't it lovelerly, when you see someone either dominating or proto-domming (collar of protection, collar of consideration, testing collar, collar of the week) someone whom they obviously respect and hold in high regard?"
 
I need to respond as far as the 'collar of consideration.'  I'm from the Old School way of doing things, which wasn't a velcro and or collar to be taken lightly.  It was the first stage of obtaining the slave collar.
That said, there are personality changes when it is in the courting stage and or dating slave into a serious relationship, with the intent of becoming a slave that lives within someone's home 24/7.  There have been times slaves think that 24/7 is for them and when they are exposed to such experiences--not always is it what they think it is.  The fantasy myth and or imagination bubble is broken.  This is why consideration was used in my day.  Exporing the reality takes steps.
Although the collar of consideration is of a time and mind of a different era; it should be said that some of us who use the Collar of Consideration in the process of creating and making a concrete relationship will find  being in with the testing collar and collar of the week rather uncomfortable.  But, like with anything--even collars; they are subjected to abuse like everything in life.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs



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