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Bilingual ballots? - 11/21/2006 2:24:35 PM   
slaveMastery


Posts: 77
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline 		During my first election this year (newly naturalized citizen), I had a massive HUH??-effect when looking at the electoral mid-term ballot. All instructions and content were printed both in English and in Spanish.

Now, I am not one of the bilingualism-bashers that demand that everything has to be written in English in the U.S., but what I definitely did not get is this:

In order to vote, you have to be a citizen. In order to become a citizen, you have to pass a test before the INS in which you demonstrate your ability to understand, speak, read and write the English language. Then why the heck would the ballots be printed in anything else but English?
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RE: Bilingual ballots? - 11/21/2006 2:40:36 PM   
Aileen68


Posts: 6091
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline 		I have no clue what you just wrote.
I can only read Spanish.  8)

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RE: Bilingual ballots? - 11/21/2006 2:43:30 PM   
slaveMastery


Posts: 77
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline 		Verdadera? Eres una mujer muy inteligente por que puedes leer el Ingles!

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RE: Bilingual ballots? - 11/21/2006 2:45:32 PM   
Aileen68


Posts: 6091
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline 		What????
I can only read English.  8)

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RE: Bilingual ballots? - 11/21/2006 2:47:41 PM   
Aileen68


Posts: 6091
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline 		But I do agree with you.
I think ballots should only be in English.
My relatives learned the language almost one hundred years ago
with far less resources than are available today.

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RE: Bilingual ballots? - 11/21/2006 2:48:00 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline 		The English requirements in the current naturalization procedure have not always been in place.

~stef

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RE: Bilingual ballots? - 11/21/2006 2:49:31 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		My relatives still can't even read English.

Edited to add: And I mean like they were born here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

My relatives learned the language almost one hundred years ago
with far less resources than are available today.


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 11/21/2006 2:50:11 PM >

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RE: Bilingual ballots? - 11/21/2006 2:52:18 PM   
slaveMastery


Posts: 77
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline 		I am not quite sure how anyone could NOT be able to read and write English with the immigration/naturalization process as it has been in existence for quite some time. Those forms are NOT user-friendly and/or intuitive.

Alternately, an immigrations attorney would likely cost in excess of $1K - and that only for the temporary resident status. From that, you need to progress through the permanent resident status into finally the citizenship status.

From first-hand experience - no English, no voting!

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RE: Bilingual ballots? - 11/21/2006 2:54:50 PM   
slaveMastery


Posts: 77
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

My relatives still can't even read English.

Edited to add: And I mean like they were born here.



[evil grin] Is that how people like Mark Foley and Dennis Hastert get elected?

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RE: Bilingual ballots? - 11/21/2006 3:12:15 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveMastery

I am not quite sure how anyone could NOT be able to read and write English with the immigration/naturalization process as it has been in existence for quite some time. Those forms are NOT user-friendly and/or intuitive.

I'm not talking about last year, I'm talking about half a century and more ago.  Those people had a very different experience than you did and as Lam already pointed out, there are people who were born here that don't speak English either.  There is no requirement for US born citizens to speak English (which is another kettle of fish entirely).

~stef

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RE: Bilingual ballots? - 11/21/2006 3:31:40 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveMastery
From first-hand experience - no English, no voting!


.......and i assume you'll also let them off paying tax........after all, no taxation without representation.

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RE: Bilingual ballots? - 11/21/2006 3:32:36 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Well, the U.S. is an English speaking country so everything should be in English.

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RE: Bilingual ballots? - 11/21/2006 4:33:59 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		I am regularly amazed at the bigotry that people attach to language. Personally I don't give a fuck what language somebody speaks, and if there are enough albanian-speakers in the area, then print the voting instructions in fucking albanian for them.
What happened to freedom?


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RE: Bilingual ballots? - 11/21/2006 4:42:23 PM   
slaveMastery


Posts: 77
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I am regularly amazed at the bigotry that people attach to language. Personally I don't give a fuck what language somebody speaks, and if there are enough albanian-speakers in the area, then print the voting instructions in fucking albanian for them.
What happened to freedom?



It is not bigotry of attaching meaning to language. Language, as integral part of culture, is learned. Embracing becoming an active part ("active" as in voting) of a society starts with emulating parts of said culture.

Now, going back to Lam's earlier comments about his family - I must admit that my "newcomer bias" is somewhat skewed and that I did not take into account the historical melting pot aspect.

Always good to get different perspectives...

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RE: Bilingual ballots? - 11/21/2006 4:48:47 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Election instructions in more than one language aren't a problem but when laws are written in more than one language then there is a problem. Having read the torpedoed proposed EU constitution in four languages and with no language taking precedence, it was a lawyers charter. The difference in nuance in places and words that exist in one language and not in another meant it could be interpreted differently in each language.

Actually I could barely understand the constitution in English with all its legal speak and trying to blind the genral public with science (or lawyer speak in this case).

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/21/2006 4:51:43 PM >

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RE: Bilingual ballots? - 11/21/2006 11:45:10 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		It must have been a terrible trauma. Imagine that: letters arranged in a different way. Will you cope?

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 11/21/2006 11:46:32 PM >

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RE: Bilingual ballots? - 11/22/2006 5:18:23 AM   
slaveMastery


Posts: 77
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

It must have been a terrible trauma. Imagine that: letters arranged in a different way. Will you cope?


Imagine that - even though the letters are arranged differently in the English language than in my native German language...yes, I did!

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RE: Bilingual ballots? - 11/22/2006 6:01:46 AM   
ZenrageTheKeeper


Posts: 237
Joined: 6/26/2005
Status: offline 		When one thinks of how other countries in Europe and Asia have to deal with different dialects and how they have to overcome their own language barriers, it always strikes me as completely juvenile to complain when parts of America incorporate other languages in its culture.

If the second language was German, or Italian, or Norwegian, then I could see the absurdity of it. But as it is, America is and will always be bordered to a large population of Spanish speaking individuals.

So suck it up and deal with it.


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RE: Bilingual ballots? - 11/22/2006 6:20:47 AM   
MissyRane


Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline 		but the thing is in my opinion is that the ones that speak spanish are so aggressive pushing it upon others, or that's my experience. Many like..italian and spanish speaking people refuse to speak other languges, like the french used to dp(even though I think they've become more aware of that they have to speak other languages than french all the time :P) at the expense of others. But that's just my point of view and what  I have experienced.

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RE: Bilingual ballots? - 11/22/2006 6:27:16 AM   
Benazir


Posts: 10
Joined: 8/2/2004
Status: offline 		IMHO
If you examine what made the USA great and what makes any culturaly diverse nation strong is their commonality, their common goals and aspirations. America has always been a haven for many different cultures. taking the best of each and weaving it into the fabric of our society. Taking  poles, jews, mexicans, germans , spainish or whatever nationality and making them american. The recent phenomenen of the hyphenated americian as in african-americam or italian-american, is I feel detrimental  to the fabric of america. The business of the American people is done and  transpires in English, while I do not have any problem with people maintaining their cultural identy, having been married to a native born Luithuianian, I feel that learning and speaking English can only help integrate people into our society,and make  the US even stronger. Case in point is Chehoslovokia(sic), Where individual ethnic groups fractured that country into virtual city states, where differences  started wars and genocide.. Just My own thoughts
Ben

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