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How to Introduce Power Exchange to Vanilla Spouse? - 2/11/2005 6:03:52 AM   
Hickory


Posts: 49
Joined: 2/9/2005
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I’m a vanilla guy married to a wonderful vanilla woman for 25 years. I stumbled onto this site via a search engine, while looking for information on dog training (HAR!) and found these forums VERY illuminating. Thank you, all.

I have always been deferential to my wife, but in a very round-about way. I wear the pants in the family, but she often chooses which ones. I make many of the decisions, but they are usually the decisions to act on her choices and preferences. I created a profile under “switch” because “beats the hell out of me??!” was not one of the available categories (would possibly confuse masochists, anyway, I imagine).

For the past year or so we’ve been separated during the week, as my employment is now three hours from where we make our home. Absence does make the heart grow fonder and our time together has become all the more precious. When we are apart, I ache for her, and when we are together, all I want to do is please her and make her happy.

So far, it has manifest itself in vastly improved domestic participation (cleaning, laundry, dishes, et al – how’s that for a constructive manifestation of perversion!), which, originally I attributed to wanting to have more leisure time with her and the (two teen age) kids. I over the past several months, though, I have begun to recognize that there is more to it. I have a growing, consuming need to serve her and the discovery of this site may have given me a way to articulate it.

How, then does one introduce the idea of formal power exchange to a spouse without upsetting or risking a very good thing, especially if one’s leanings are toward the submissive side?

I have searched and followed many links and cross-threads on this site and others, but hope other readers can offer more specific advice on how to start this kind of conversation.

We will be together this weekend and I will probably have to tell her about finding this place and writing this post. (That sentence churned the stomach, all right!)

Thanks,

Hickory Switch
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RE: How to Introduce Power Exchange to Vanilla Spouse? - 2/11/2005 6:09:28 AM   
ProtagonistLily


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My Dear Hickory,

First, I have no advice, sorry. I haven't been in your situation, so to give advice would be remiss. I assume that that will come shortly, as I know many around here have first hand experience.

Secondly, Bravo. Your wife is an extreamly lucky woman to have a gem of a guy like you. I think what made me go "ooooo" in your post was that you didn't come here and say "I've discovered I'm a Submissive and I'm too embarassed to discuss it with my wife, so now I'm looking for a Mistress..." Bravo that you are secure in who and what you are, and I swoon at the fact that you are so openly adoring of your wife.

The very best of luck to you and your Mistress ~grin~

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to Hickory)
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RE: How to Introduce Power Exchange to Vanilla Spouse? - 2/11/2005 6:39:35 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
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quote:

We will be together this weekend and I will probably have to tell her about finding this place and writing this post.

As I was reading your post I was thinking along the same lines so am only posting so you'll have another vote for that idea.

Something else to consider is that you've explained how you see your relationship with "I have always been deferential to my wife" along with the details you've shared with us, so I'm thinking it could also be a good idea to ask her beforehand if she sees things the same way. If so, then that could be a gradual way to lead up to showing her this post because then you'll have the context where she could find it as much of an eye opener as you did. And if she doesn't see the same dynamic in your relationship, then you'll be able to get that out in the open and also you'll have a better sense of whether or not showing her this is such a good idea.

< Message edited by happypervert -- 2/11/2005 6:42:57 AM >


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RE: How to Introduce Power Exchange to Vanilla Spouse? - 2/11/2005 7:10:28 AM   
sub4hire


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You're going to be together reading this during this weekend right? Well, there you go she is introduced.
Ask her to read it with you....hey honey I found this wonderful site. Check it out.

The rest is history...or hopefully it is.

(in reply to Hickory)
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RE: How to Introduce Power Exchange to Vanilla Spouse? - 2/11/2005 7:11:03 AM   
Hickory


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Thank you for the insight, It is much appreciated. The "probably" I typed for my benefit, as we don't keep secrets like this, never have. I will have to tell her about this in some way, I just need to figure out how.

My main concern is the old "he said/ she heard" conundrum.

He says: "I've discovered that I have feelings for you that go deeper and are a little different than what we have had before."

She hears: "You are not meeting my needs."

Making this more challenging is the distance thing.


  • She is stuck at home, a single parent, all week. Her job is demanding. Our kids are demanding. Life is demanding. Something like this can feel demanding.

  • I am off in another city all week, doing gawd knows what (working MFAO is what, and she knows this; we have excellent trust for each other). Hearing something like "you are not meeting my needs" can feel a lot like "I am far away all week, unsupervised, you are not meeting my needs and I could go looking to have them met elsewhere." (Unless there is another beautiful woman, whom I have known and loved completely for more than half of my life that I am unaware of, I can't see it, but she might). This cannot become some kind of hostage situation where she feels "bottomed" into "topping" me. I read that thread.

  • This is not the sort of thing one mentions on the way out the door one morning. We share our lives with two active teenagers, who seem to take turns being within earshot from early in the AM 'till Midnight. Finding a safe and private context to alow exploration of these ideas will be diffficult.


Thanks,

T


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RE: How to Introduce Power Exchange to Vanilla Spouse? - 2/11/2005 7:28:45 AM   
femdom4u2besub


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What a gem you are. We should all be so lucky. My guess is that you have an open and honest relationship with your wife and the words will come to you once you get started. Starting any conversation with an unknown outcome can be a bit scary.
One way to approach the discovery of this site is to say as you said to us...while searching the internet for a dog training site I ran upon this site... You might want to admit that it peeked your curiosity and that once you were on the site looking around some of it seemed familiar to your relationship with her and you wanted to share it with her and get her opinion.
My suggestion would be at first to stay away from the use of words/phrases like Power Exchange and BDSM and Submissive/Domminate they can appear at first to be scary and over the top to someone just being introduced.
Then let her discover, look, poke around, if she has questions encourage her to register herself and post a question.
Good luck.

(in reply to happypervert)
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RE: How to Introduce Power Exchange to Vanilla Spouse? - 2/11/2005 8:17:50 AM   
ProtagonistLily


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quote:

What a gem you are. We should all be so lucky. My guess is that you have an open and honest relationship with your wife and the words will come to you once you get started. Starting any conversation with an unknown outcome can be a bit scary.
One way to approach the discovery of this site is to say as you said to us... <SNIP>


You know, Hickory....you've probably made all the Fem Dommes here go "awwwwwe' with your original post, and in a good way.

Fem Dommes are women first. What woman doesn't want to hear from her lover/spouse the very things you expressed in your initial post?

If you think you could pull it off, you might want to print it off and show it to her. There's nothing that you should be ashamed of in it. It's sincere, throbs with devotion, is loving and very compassionately honest. If my lover was writing stuff like that about me, I'd be thrilled to see it.

So, that might be a way for you to introduce the subject to her.

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

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RE: How to Introduce Power Exchange to Vanilla Spouse? - 2/11/2005 8:36:34 AM   
Darthbetta


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Proceede with EXTREME CAUTION.... she may completely freek-the fuck-out...... this has happened with people's relationships inthe past, but not always.

a few questions:

1) is she kinky at all ?
2) does she enjoy "dirty" things ? ie: porn, or dressing provocativly ?
3) she like sex ? and how often ? (obviously present employment has made "EVERY DAY" difficult LOL)
4) is she open minded ?
5) have you 2 ever discussed "kink" before ? or blindfolds ?
6) what is her disposition ? if you are submissive, chances are she will have to be the assertative one.
7) have you 2 ever roleplayed ?

My Dad is a dominant person, but my mom still tells him what to wear also.... LOL..... I think that is just because he would be happy going to dinner in his work clothes just as much as the hastle of putting on a suit.. LOL.


Perhaps you should try a bit of "Soft" kink... Blind folds, erotic massages, sex toys, smacking her ass, or vice versa, then progress into tying each other up etc etc etc.. if all this goes well, then perhaps buy her a sexy PVC outfit and some wicked heels, and see if she likes such ..... better yet, look at a few erotic clothing sites, and havethem have undertones of BDSM to it.
She may be just as much a "pain puppy" as she just has not know to be.

While she may not want a complete BDSM lifestyle, a bit of "spice" may be what is needed.. I'm sure that if you 2 are openly communicative that things can "work out".


cheers.
M. Darth.

ps: have any pics of her ?

_____________________________

Some of us have an inane knack for calling people on their Bullshit... I just choose to retort with bitter dry Sarcasm, and occasionaly it sinks in. Mostly, I just look like an ass.

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RE: How to Introduce Power Exchange to Vanilla Spouse? - 2/11/2005 8:47:28 AM   
MsCameron


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From: Ontario, Canada
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quote:

ps: have any pics of her ?


Darth!!! get your mind out of the bucket! LOL

Hickory..I wish you the best with your lucky lady :)

MsC

_____________________________

I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Spiral out. Keep going, going...
Lateralis.Tool

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RE: How to Introduce Power Exchange to Vanilla Spouse? - 2/11/2005 10:26:03 AM   
Hickory


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Thank you all for your words of encouragement and advice. Thank you, also for the opportunity to give voice to my feelings and to help sort out something that has been gnawing at me for a while.

Darth, your suggestions about easing into the idea of a D/s FACET of our excellent relationship are great. There are a lot of other excellent threads as well that explore different types and degrees of “kink” that we can consider.

BTW: Her pic will do you no good. Just because you're hard, doen't mean she's easy. She prefers the rugged, outdoors type and you, I hate to say it, are just too pail.

My wife is an open minded and creative individual, but my real concern is more fundamental.

I feel a growing need to serve her, in a sense that isn’t even concerned with latex and leather, per se. It’s also about the chores and support and getting her a drink from the kitchen, even when it’s not a commercial. I can do these things without ever discussing this site or anything else. I can just do them. I AM just doing them. My greatest fear is that if she knows why I am doing them, she won’t want to be served.

I guess it comes down to outcome Vs process. She is very outcome oriented. I am very process oriented. It’s always been that way for us, and has served us well for a quarter century (OMG). My getting her a drink from the kitchen has an outcome of her having her drink. Objective met. What I think I need is found in the process of serving her her drink. (She does NOT take me for granted, t’other way round, I’m sure).

There are new (to me) layers to this simple act that I don’t think she is seeing, yet. Gawd knows, life is complicated enough without having to micromanage another adult (NOT my expected outcome) and I fear that adding these layers will feel like a simple outcome made more complicated. For me, though, there is an intimacy to this simple act that would be more satisfying if we were both knowingly experiencing it.

T


< Message edited by Hickory -- 2/11/2005 10:27:17 AM >

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RE: How to Introduce Power Exchange to Vanilla Spouse? - 2/11/2005 3:03:16 PM   
MadameBette


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From: Long Island, NY
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This is from an article I wrote, which appears on my website http://www.madamebette-bdsm-info.com within the essay “The Road to BDSM – stages of development". Hope it helps.

Coming out to your partner

I’m going to digress here for a bit, since this is not a ‘stage’ per se, but something that will come up in time, if you have a vanilla partner.
You may want your partner to share your enthusiasm and your interest.
Often, before you are ready to do so, there’s a period of uncertainty, fear and loneliness. This is perfectly normal. But if you have a relationship based on respect and trust, there shouldn’t be a problem with discussing your thoughts, feelings and needs. Discussion is not agreement, and your partner should hear you out, whether or not they are interested. If you feel however, that you don’t have the level of trust and mutual respect required, you probably should re-think your relationship, whether or not you decide to pursue your interest in BDSM.

Let’s talk about ‘coming out’ to your partner. Yes, you’re as excited as a kid with a new toy! At the same time, you may be feeling vulnerable, uncertain about the response you’ll get, and not a little afraid of rejection. When you decide to share, please don’t overdo it!

Some suggestions:
1) Be prepared. Have some factual information available. The Leather and Roses website has an excellent FAQ’s section. Download a few, so he/she has something to go on besides your opinions. Get some basic books, such as “S/M 101”, by Jay Wiseman, and “Screw The Roses”, by Philip Miller and Molly Devon, These and other books are available on the Bookshelf.
2) Don’t rush them. Give them time to digest and absorb it.
3) Don’t make BDSM the topic of all your conversations from now on. Use a little restraint! Pun intended!
4) Don’t hit them with a ‘wish-list’! It may be overwhelming just to learn of your interest, don’t expect them to immediately want to meet your needs and fantasies.
5) Don’t ‘let it all out’ at once. Bring it up, gauge their reaction, and then wait a bit. You can always add a little more when they are ready. Remember you didn’t get to this point in a day. So don’t expect them to, either.

The following is a yet unpublished excerpt from my series on Learning to Domme – Part 4
which is essentially for women who are vanilla and asked to dominate by their mates, or who are very new to the lifestyle.


Submissive? Slave? Masochist?
To help you understand, and appreciate, what you are hearing from your partner, you need to learn a few things about what the motivations for submission are.

Most people in the ‘vanilla’ world think, “A submissive, is a slave, is a masochist.”
Of course, that’s not true. They aren’t aware that there is any distinction between these words; to them, they all mean the same thing. But even among those in the Lifestyle, there are some who don’t like the term ‘slave’.
You need to know the subtle differences, if you’re not sure, so you can figure out what your partner is really looking for. He may even have the words confused himself!

A submissive surrenders control of his body and actions to his Mistress, often for erotic play.
A slave is also submissive, wants to please his Mistress in any way she chooses, which may, or may not, include sex as part of the ‘play’. They are usually, although not always, in a committed relationship.
A masochist is a person who seeks out pain, whether it’s physical or emotional. He may or may not be submissive.
A submissive or slave, may or may not be masochistic.


So, in order to proceed, you need to know whether your partner wants to be submissive, or be thought of, - and treated like - a slave, or is strictly masochistic, or a combination.

Slave?
Some people find the term ‘slave’, with it’s negative connotations, - being considered ‘less than’, it’s sexual implications, and especially the label of ‘being owned’, degrading. Yet, this is the very reason it appeals to those that prefer it!
To them, being a sex-toy, boy-toy, sex-slave or whatever they want to think of themselves, is very erotic and romantic! (And here you may have thought your guy didn’t have a romantic bone in his body!)
Whichever term your sub uses, the main point is that he wants to be submissive to you! He wants to give over to you, control of his life. He wants to do your bidding, to please you, serve you, to submit to you!

Let’s examine the ‘romance’ of ‘being owned’. There’s a definite allure to this concept. Look at the whole ‘bodice-ripper’ genre of fiction.
Hundreds of books hit the market each year with the theme of a heroine being held in the clutches of a dastardly, but ultimately ‘good’ character who ‘forces’ himself upon the poor, ‘innocent’ woman, making her do things she normally would be ashamed to do. And does she love it?
Oh, my, yes!
And because he ‘takes’ her against her will, there will be no guilt on her part.

It is the same with the submissive. By turning himself over to you, he is free to explore his ‘darker’ side, or ‘shadow’ as Jung called it, without shame or guilt.

This is important and healthy. We all, at times, need to examine our darker urges rather than keep them repressed or we risk having them come out in inappropriate ways.
You may be surprised yourself, at things that will come out when you let yourself ‘go’ and really get ‘into’ being the Domme!

Who would want to be submissive? Why are some masochistic?
Why do many men and women have this urge to be submissive, to want to give up control? For that matter, why are some of us dominant in our play, while others are submissive? What does a masochist get from his pain?

There are people who like being in control at all times. They are dominant both in their work and play, while others seem to be the opposite of who they are in their ‘real’ lives, either relinquishing control (sub) or finally being able to take control (Dom).

I’ve read many times that men who seek submission often have high-pressure jobs, and while I think this is true to a certain extent, who’s to say exactly what ‘high-pressure’ is?
The stresses of our lives can sometimes be overwhelming, no matter what our occupation. Pressures, stresses, responsibilities. These can be a burden to our ‘selfhood’ and may explain the appeal of masochism, and/or submission.
To some people, it’s the best ‘coping’ mechanism they have, the one that really works for them.

From Baumeister: “Masochism as an Escape from Self”: Awareness of self as a symbolic, schematic choosing entity is removed and replaced with a low level awareness of self as a physical body and locus of immediate sensations, or with a new identity with transformed symbolic meaning. <Masochism> …may be classed with exercise, intoxication, and meditation, all of which facilitate escape from normal self-awareness.

Is there anything wrong with people who use Dominance, submission and/or masochistic play in their lives?

Cowan (1982) describes her masochist patients as “successful by social standards: professionally, sexually, emotionally, culturally, in marriage or out. They are frequently individuals of admirable strength of character, possessed of strong “coping egos” and with an ethical sense of individual responsibility. ( pg31)
How we choose to cope with these pressures is our choice. If we don’t deal with them,
if there isn’t a mechanism that acts as a ‘safety valve’, they can make us ill, or even kill us. We all know this. So do doctors, psychiatrists and other health care professionals, and those who work in Human Resources.
Those who choose some form of BDSM, find their release in the activities and/or role play, of dominance, submission, or sadomasochism.
As Bob H, a well-known NY Dom says, “Other people repress their demons. We harness ours up and take them out for a ride.”

~ Bette

02/02/05 copywrite

(in reply to Hickory)
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RE: How to Introduce Power Exchange to Vanilla Spouse? - 2/11/2005 6:14:23 PM   
Voltare


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Lots of great advice already posted here, so I'll keep mine simple. It sounds like you've already done 90% of the hard stuff, as learning to communicate and showing your feelings. Many people go their whole lives not knowing how to do that!

Chances are good that she'll read what you've written, and you'll talk and if the relationship is as good as it sounds, she'll just laugh and say 'of course, I knew this all along!' D/s has been around ever since men were clubbing women and dragging them off to caves. The lifestyle today is just putting a lot of that into words and terms.

No matter what you two do with what you learn, maybe nightly flogging sessions with candlewax and spikes, maybe just a good laugh over a movie like the Secretary, knowing more about yourself and your partner can only make things better.

Good luck, and thanks for sharing such a great story!

Stephan

_____________________________

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"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

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RE: How to Introduce Power Exchange to Vanilla Spouse? - 2/11/2005 7:37:31 PM   
Jasmyn


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www.tiedmoments.com/rika/index.htm

You might find some comfort in reading this site if you haven't already. Best of luck.

Mistress Jasmyn

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RE: How to Introduce Power Exchange to Vanilla Spouse? - 2/11/2005 8:07:22 PM   
kyakitten


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Hi Hickory,

What nobody's touched on here, I think, is how your wife sees herself, and how she wants to see herself, and how that's going to affect your success. It's pretty hard for women, generally speaking, to overcome all the social conditioning that tells them they should be submissive, so even if your wife enjoys being in charge, it may be hard for her to formally accept that role over you. And then there's the possibility that she's the one in charge in your relationship now simply by default rather than by desire. If that's the case, your discussion of who should take on more responsibility might backfire.

I think you're doing the right thing by bringing it up (especially discreetly, like femdom4u2besub advises), and I really hope you succeed in creating what you want! Just wanted to offer a couple possibilities you might not have thought about, because just because someone is wearing pants doesn't mean they wouldn't rather be in a baby doll nightie and ropes.



< Message edited by kyakitten -- 10/5/2005 8:57:38 PM >

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RE: How to Introduce Power Exchange to Vanilla Spouse? - 2/12/2005 1:46:13 AM   
GordonFreeman


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I have nothing new really to say - I want to just emphasize the advice of DarthBater - he is spot on. Do not throw her into the deep end. I would be extremely reluctant to simply 'come out' unless I knew for certain she would recieve the announcement well -ie: expressed interest/desire/ knowledge of power exchange previously. Remember, most of the answers you have recieved here are from dominant women - of course they are cooing - they want their guys to make these exact same submissive declarations. They dream of it. It is like asking a big fat person if you should eat another cheeseburger. It's like asking GW if you should invade Iran. If you want some advice relevant to your situation, find a board with vanilla ladies and ask them how they would react to submissive advances from their long time partners. Then you will get some answers.

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RE: How to Introduce Power Exchange to Vanilla Spouse? - 2/12/2005 10:34:26 AM   
strongnsubmissiv


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hickory

She prefers the rugged, outdoors type and you, I hate to say it, are just too pail.



OMG that was the punniest thing i've ever read.

_____________________________

*** Strong and submissive are not contradictions ***

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RE: How to Introduce Power Exchange to Vanilla Spouse? - 2/12/2005 11:27:28 AM   
DomButNotForgotn


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Great question, and good replies here. A bit of a late reply from me...

In your shoes (and as a Dom, with much conjecture on my part) - I would suggest some caution and diplomacy. She might be VERY willing to formalize things and be your Domme, she might want to be a bit more demanding of you to serve her sexually OR domestically OR in some other way - and then again, she might just want the occasional choice to basically keep all thigns as they are, and tell you what she wants in a slightly more demanding way on occasion, and not change your sex lives or start wearing fetish wear, or whatever.

You light want to just ask her to view the site here as you watch, and ask some open ended questions, or tell her you have "fantasies" about being more submissive to her. She might JUMP at the chance to make you lick her toes, or something. However, you obviously DO NOT want to fuck things up as they are now - you want to enhance them, and be able to feel more of service to her - she might want that - she might not. I wish you both very well - and good luck!

(Dom) Mark
Boston, MA

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RE: How to Introduce Power Exchange to Vanilla Spouse? - 2/12/2005 9:12:34 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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I also Liked Akashaweb for simple, straight forward introductory information that generally shouldn't scare a woman away yelling "you crazy freak".
Good luck, you sound like a gem. M

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RE: How to Introduce Power Exchange to Vanilla Spouse? - 2/12/2005 9:59:50 PM   
LadyAngelika


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Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hickory
I have searched and followed many links and cross-threads on this site and others, but hope other readers can offer more specific advice on how to start this kind of conversation.


Here is an article I have referred to a lot of men I know in your situation. (Personal note: I don't so much agree with Elise Female Superiority tangeant but most of it is excellent).
How To Introduce Your Wife or Girlfriend To The Female Domination Lifestyle by Elise Sutton.

Remember there are many ways of serving your wife. She might not be into all the ways but surely there are some that will bring a lovely smile to her face. Those are the ones you can focus on first.

And I'll echo the women here by saying you are a gem for sure and I'll also commend you for trying to make this work with your spouse rather then sneaking off to find it elsewhere.

I wish you and her the best of luck.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 2/12/2005 10:01:13 PM >


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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: How to Introduce Power Exchange to Vanilla Spouse? - 2/13/2005 3:37:09 AM   
painworthy


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Isn't it a shame that there are not more kink friendly counselors around that could help a couple such as yourselves calmly and rationally work through the intracacies of such complicated personal matters. There's so many things to consider, and so little we really know about your situation that i feel it may be unwise to give an opinion or advice, it could quite conceivably do more harm than good. You're partner's basic leanings are at least as important as yours in this, and we have no idea where they lie. God luck with this, please keep us posted, i suspect there's many of us submariners here in similar boats.

< Message edited by painworthy -- 2/13/2005 3:40:08 AM >

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