Male Abuse

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juliaoceania -> Male Abuse (11/24/2006 10:17:54 PM)
This was broght up in the feminist bashing thread, but it was so important I thought it deserved its own thread. Level brought up that male abuse, or abuse of men is not seen as seriously as female abuse. I would tend to agree with that. Some of the reasons it exists this way is shame on the part of the man, stigma and such. I just thought I would start a thread asking people if they take abuse of males as an important topic, has this touched your life at all?

caitlyn -> RE: Male Abuse (11/24/2006 10:37:45 PM)
Abuse is abuse ... which may seem like an obvious answer, but is on point. This is not a male/female issue. It's an abuser/abused issue. Male abuse is probably less reported, because of the shame and stigma attached to it. This shouldn't shock anyone, as one would imagine that a major reason women don't report abuse is shame and stigma.

CrazyC -> RE: Male Abuse (11/24/2006 10:51:49 PM)
Thank you Julia for starting this strand. yes male abuse is actually being studied hard, and known to be much larger then reported for many of the stigma of that type of situation. "Why can't you controle your wife?" Because of such low numbers there really isn't much financial help. Like if a woman calls a crisis center needing a place for safety, we can offer that to her. But a man has to fend for himself. There are support groups though starting in many cities, even this small town in OR has a support group. So the word is out, and very important. Men need to know they aren't less of a man just because they get abused, and other men need to not ridicule those men who are. ok off my soap box....

seeksfemslave -> RE: Male Abuse (11/24/2006 11:21:12 PM)
This is a cut and paste of my post on the other thread about fembots etc. A bit of an ego trip maybe but I think it is accurate so I have repeated it. To my mind there is no doubt whatsoever that in the public presentation at least a major imbalance exists in the legal responses to the problems that arise between men and women who are involved in a failed emotional relationship. It appears women can do no wrong and are able to financially ruin a man regardless of the details of the failure of the relationship. As for violence it is perfectly obvious that women are capable of doing their share but for some reason this is not treated in the same way as if a man is involved. I was watching one of those home improvement programmes recently and the man was slogging his guts out working 10 hour days doing all the necessary reconstruction work. His female partner was shown bring him sandwiches and a cup of tea. The thought crossed my mind that if that relationship failed the female would be described has having made a significant contribution to the build and awarded 50% or more of the property. Justice ? It has at last been admitted that many women routinely ignore, with impunity, court orders requiring access by the father to his children. This is so in the UK anyway. An extra bit....yes I have experience of feminine physical and emotional abuse of a male. It was not to me personally. It occured due to the mutual incompatablity of the partners. Today the man, on responding to hours of tantrums sulks and occasional violence would be held to be a prime mover in the abusive cycle and punished accordingly. Justice ?

LTRsubNW -> RE: Male Abuse (11/24/2006 11:45:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania This was broght up in the feminist bashing thread, but it was so important I thought it deserved its own thread. Level brought up that male abuse, or abuse of men is not seen as seriously as female abuse. I would tend to agree with that. Some of the reasons it exists this way is shame on the part of the man, stigma and such. I just thought I would start a thread asking people if they take abuse of males as an important topic, has this touched your life at all? If men talked to women the way women talk to men (as on talk shows, in corporate settings, etc.), we'd be ostracized from the entire world. Men are constantly bashed by women, but we don't say anything because we know it won't garner any support. Men are afraid to join in, for fear of loss of respect/connection/access to women and women have no need to support men because a) men won't join in and b) women have no need to. A woman can say "honey, you're putting on a few pounds...you need to do something about that" and that's that and if he makes a comment like a woman might, she'd brush it off and act like "what's his problem?" A man see's his entire life flash before his eyes if he's asked "do these pants make me look fat?" If a man went to his boss with verifiable evidence and said "Sarah is coming on to me....someone needs to put a stop to it" he'd be laughed out of the office (and in legal precedent, judges have dismissed cases as being frivolous solely because it was a man making the complaint), but a woman can say that simply because she doesn't like him and it's on his record for the next 20 years. A woman can have a child. If she complains he's not spending enough time at home with the kids, he's a bad father, but with the only child a man can truly create, a business or a career, even if he's devoting as much of himself to that to support his family as she might with the kids, his sacrifice that takes him away from the things that she loves is of less importance and societally shameful even as his sacrifice is for the very same people, whereas hers, equally as important is deemed to be more valid. Yet both are fighting for the same cause. (Abuse isn't always physical).

meatcleaver -> RE: Male Abuse (11/25/2006 2:56:37 AM)
When I worked in the Probation Service I came across a lot of female abuse of males but most male abuse doesn't make it to the courts because men won't testify. I have to admit I was surprised at how physically and psychologically violent some women can be. It certainly changed how I view the sexes. Though nothing will change while women have carte blanche to criticize men and men feel unable to respond without being accused of being a misogynist. There are subliminal anti-male messages sent out over the airwaves on a daily basis. Just analyse a hour of television, particularly talk shows and adverts.

CharlieLafontain -> RE: Male Abuse (11/25/2006 3:29:27 AM)
Abuse is abuse. It doesn't know gender, race or religion. It happens everywhere. Just do what you can to rid your surroundings of pests that spoil the lives of everybody else.

LadyEllen -> RE: Male Abuse (11/25/2006 4:57:34 AM)
I wonder if Assclown will read this thread? If only it had been done the way Julia has...... what an entirely different result. I feel so much of these problems have arisen and will continue to arise, because whilst socially and legally, women have moved out of their former status to become fully competent, independent people on a par with men as regards opportunities, behaviours and so on, the social and legal system has not moved in the same way to deal with the fact that some women are not nice people. We have allowed and enabled women to achieve equal rights - which is a positive and long overdue change. But we have not likewise changed the way in which society and the law deals with the negative behaviours of women that the positive changes they have experienced enable and allow them. There are two sides to the feminist slogan "women are people too". I see no reason whatever for women to expect to get away with criminality et al by comparison to men - and expecting lower penalties or none because they are women. Full rights mean full liability. I take for example a biker guy I know, (looks very much like Scooter, here on CM!). He married a woman who turned out to be abusive and violent in the extreme. Now this guy is no pushover, but he ended up getting beaten frequently by her, but whereas if another guy had done that the aggressor would have been spitting teeth till Christmas, he alike with every other man was brought up with the idea that one should never hit a woman. I'm afraid, that that is BS. I have brought my son up to know that if anyone, male or female starts on him, he should give as good as he gets - if a woman wants to plays boys' games, then in the spirit of equality, she should expect no quarter, according to "da rules". Still, I know how the police and the courts would see it as things are, and how society sees it. At least the biker guy I know received the full support of his friends, male and female. How strange it is, that we drop outs of society can see the truth, whereas polite society and our betters in authority do not. E

mnottertail -> RE: Male Abuse (11/25/2006 5:03:19 AM)
One only needs to view the documentary: Ilsa, she wolf of the SS. That is the seminal work on this subject. Otto Preminger

UtopianRanger -> RE: Male Abuse (11/25/2006 5:57:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania This was broght up in the feminist bashing thread, but it was so important I thought it deserved its own thread. Level brought up that male abuse, or abuse of men is not seen as seriously as female abuse. I would tend to agree with that. Some of the reasons it exists this way is shame on the part of the man, stigma and such. I just thought I would start a thread asking people if they take abuse of males as an important topic, has this touched your life at all? Nah......As along as they don't kill us or eat us, we just get a lot tougher. Take it on chin but don't let your knees wobble ; } - R

cloudboy -> RE: Male Abuse (11/25/2006 6:07:11 AM)
The question is, would you rather by physically beaten up or subjected to: abusive expectations, an emotionally abusive relationship, borderline tendencies, a narcissistic individual, a borderline individual, emotional abuse, an abusive attitude, an abusive personality, an abusive partner, constant chaos, or narcissistic tendencies. Maybe we should consult the Guerilla Girls. But, to answer your question: I think men, for the most part, are empowered to protect themselves from abuse. I also think bad relationships are an equal opportunity venture for both sexes. Whereas men pose a danger to women, women pose no equal or comparible danger in return. (Not meaning to insult Livia from I Claudius.)

RosaB -> RE: Male Abuse (11/25/2006 7:10:02 AM)
I've seen a variety of informative programs on this subject over the past couple of decades. Abuse no matter who is doing it shouldn't be tolerated. Its no more a laughing matter when a woman is the abuser than when it is the man inflicting the abuse. What is important is that people continue to protect the rights of all human beings regardless of gender. Making sure that these kinds of dialogs continue and never letting people shut you up about it. There are many people on both sides of the gender equation that are incapable of controlling their rage and need to be put in check, there's no reason to excuse the behavior because the person is a woman, is smaller, or seem so delicate that you just can't imagine she could hurt such a manly man. Some women will use that to their advantage. I remember once coming into the middle of such a situation where I traded babysitting duties for room and board. The father had custody, the mother was an emotionally and physically abusive tyrant. She did every thing you could imagine to abuse the court system to garner sympathy to continue harassing the father of their child. She had done unimaginable things to cause the courts to have given custody to the dad in the first place, yet still she was allowed so much access to the family where she was able to continue to reap havoc. She would stalk, harass, show up at the house at unreasonable hours of the night, call the house all house of the day and night to harass the father the child and me. It was a heart breaking situation all I could do was continue sheltering the little boy from hearing the arguments situation usually ending with the police having to remove her from the premises. There was a lot of me having to do damage control whenever the child returned from unsupervised visits with this women where she filled the little boys head up with poison about the father. I mean this woman even stalked the family psychiatrist to get info. When she thought no one was looking she would shove the father, try to goad him into a fight, where upon, I'm sure she would have used that to get him thrown in jail, because like many said, the system did have a bias against men and they would have been quicker to arrest him if he struck back. Things are changing a bit in some areas. I do believe there's more of an awareness that instances of abuse against men is a real offense and should be taken seriously.. But, aside from complaining what do each of us do to affect change? The following about sums it up and I quote "Abuse is abuse. It doesn't know gender, race or religion. It happens everywhere. Just do what you can to rid your surroundings of pests that spoil the lives of everybody else." ...........CharlieLafontain

seeksfemslave -> RE: Male Abuse (11/25/2006 7:22:47 AM)
Cloudboy said.... Whereas men pose a danger to women, women pose no equal or comparible danger in return. Bloodie 'ell.... What about when they cut their chopper off, set fire to them or stab them as they, the men ,lie in a drunken stupour or throw boiling water or fat over them etc etc etc. Don't you consider that threatening. I have seen a video on one of those reality Police programmes showing an altercation between a man and a women. The man was clearly drunk and could not defend himself and the women not realising she was being filmed launched a prolonged attack on the man. On being detained by the police she obviously used the "male abuse card" and denied everything. In fact she had bitten off part of his ear. Is that threatening enough for you ? Whenever you watch those failed relationship programmes on TV it is alway taken as given that the man is at fault. Usually what happens is that both partners then go on to make mutually exclusive points about the problems they have. At least one of them must be lying, in all probability both are.

juliaoceania -> RE: Male Abuse (11/25/2006 7:23:37 AM)
Im going away for a few days, but I wanted to thank all of you for contributing to this thread and all of the insights. To some of the men that have contributed that do not know about women that physically beat men, I have a great aunt that was a rather large woman that would lock her husband into a room and beat the crap out of him to the point of facial lacerations. This was back in the 50s. I have another example of a threatening terrorist type of female: Betty Brodrick http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/family/broderick/7.html Of course men abusing women to the point of death is much more prevelant than the reverse, but it does not mitigate the pain of being abused. I have dated someone that had an abusive ex wife who was an extremely angry person that did not think twice about using the court system to "get even" after he left her for her shrewishness. Living with an angry person that spews verbal garbage on you constantly IS abuse.

meatcleaver -> RE: Male Abuse (11/25/2006 7:37:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy The question is, would you rather by physically beaten up or subjected to: abusive expectations, an emotionally abusive relationship, borderline tendencies, a narcissistic individual, a borderline individual, emotional abuse, an abusive attitude, an abusive personality, an abusive partner, constant chaos, or narcissistic tendencies. Actually there is a lot of physical violence metered out on men by women. The difference is that many men subject to such violence don't tend to respond with violence. When I was in the probation service I worked with a well built 6'4" man who could downed most men I have known, he ended up in hospital with a fractured skull from his wife. Would he testify against her? No. Would he hit her to protect himself? No. He made endless excuses for her, though having met her on several occasions I just got the impression she was a mean vicious bitch but hey, I might be prejudice there. Female violence on males is not as rare as many people think. If I hadn't worked in the probation sercvice I would have thought such cases as above were very very rare but they aren't.

Kalira -> RE: Male Abuse (11/25/2006 7:37:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania This was broght up in the feminist bashing thread, but it was so important I thought it deserved its own thread. Level brought up that male abuse, or abuse of men is not seen as seriously as female abuse. I would tend to agree with that. Some of the reasons it exists this way is shame on the part of the man, stigma and such. I just thought I would start a thread asking people if they take abuse of males as an important topic, has this touched your life at all? I would agree that abuse is abuse, whether it is happening to a female or a male. And yes, I take both just as seriously.

LTRsubNW -> RE: Male Abuse (11/25/2006 7:46:37 AM)
The real reason men don't fight back in all this female bashing stuff is, we're conquerors...hunter gatherers. It's basically a waste of time, it doesn't accomplish anything to waste the time trying to explain the inequities of the deal. If you read all the womens magazines (every ISP quotes them and a thousand other similar sources every day with "shocking!" headlines every day to grab your attention), they're asking the same "shocking" questions every day and have been (online/in papers/etc.) for 50 years. "Women still only make 70 cents for every dollar men make!" (and 40,000 other incredible things that will likely never change). (When was the last time a woman bought you a $10,000.00 diamond ring just because? Opened your door for you when you're carrying 16 packages... Paid for your dinner/a weekend of skiing/plane tickets to Paris just because it would be fun...?) Women worry about all this stuff. Men just get on to the next thing. And the reason men don't complain about it? A) It wouldn't change anything if they did. B) If they did, it interferes with the task at hand. C) It wouldn't change anything if they did. (And since the task is to accomplish the task (make money/convince her to go to Paris with you/stop the really dumb argument so we can get to Paris...ad infinitum), why waste valuable time? And by the way....if we love you, those pants really don't make you look fat. (And we like opening the door for you). And lastly hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....I just looked at http://www.guerrillagirls.com/ That is a FLAWLESS example of the difference between men and women, how they spend such effort to educate men and the fallacy of the very same web site. It's a website comparable to a kabillion other web sites put up by women to "get men to realize how women are being cheated out of (something) in the world". If there are even 100 websites like that put up by men, in all the world...I'll buy you dinner. (In Paris).

meatcleaver -> RE: Male Abuse (11/25/2006 7:57:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW "Women still only make 70 cents for every dollar men make!" (and 40,000 other incredibly things that will likely never change). The British Law society looked into this in response to female lawyers claiming discrimination. They found due to time taken out of their careers for maternity leave, sick leave (apparently higher for women) and generally less time spent in pursuing their careers, women weren't discriminated against. Those women who had shown the same dedication as men in such things that could be objectively measured, had the same salaries and had the same chance of rising to the highest positions as men.

siamsa24 -> RE: Male Abuse (11/25/2006 8:02:26 AM)
I happen to know someone personally who is having the crap beat out of him almost daily by his much physically smaller girlfriend. He is such a gentleman and a sweetheart and refuses to fight back because he feels that no matter what it is wrong to hit a girl. He won't leave her because she has his child and threatened to move and not tell him where if he breaks up with her. It's sad, but he really doesn't have that much of a choice. He loves his son too much to have him taken away.

LTRsubNW -> RE: Male Abuse (11/25/2006 8:02:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW "Women still only make 70 cents for every dollar men make!" (and 40,000 other incredibly things that will likely never change). The British Law society looked into this in response to female lawyers claiming discrimination. They found due to time taken out of their careers for maternity leave, sick leave (apparently higher for women) and generally less time spent in pursuing their careers, women weren't discriminated against. Those women who had shown the same dedication as men in such things that could be objectively measured, had the same salaries and had the same chance of rising to the highest positions as men. (Meat...don't start confusing things with facts lol)

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