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Submissive and Criteria - 11/30/2006 1:43:35 PM

Neilhh

Posts: 5
Joined: 11/26/2006
Status: offline

A submissive once owned by a Domme should have no rights his ownership based on trust
Before choosing to be owned does he have rights to say what he does not like?
Should a Domme then always respect that ?
Should a Domme ignore that once owned ?
Should a Domme make this not like Criteria the highest Priority in his training ?

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RE: Submissive and Criteria - 11/30/2006 1:50:47 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilhh
A submissive once owned by a Domme should have no rights his ownership based on trust

Having rights or not is hardly a matter of trust.

quote:

Before choosing to be owned does he have rights to say what he does not like?

Before consenting to authority, they can do whatever they want.

quote:

Should a Domme then always respect that ?

A dom should uphold to all the commitments they have agreed to commit to. A dom should always respect what the other person says as the truth as long as there is no reason to suggest otherwise.

quote:

Should a Domme ignore that once owned ?

If the dom has said "I will not do X Y and Z" then they need to do that. If the dom has said to the person "I hear you, if you are with me, I will still do X Y and Z" then the responsibiltiy falls on the sub to either accept or reject the commitment.

quote:

Should a Domme make this not like Criteria the highest Priority in his training ?

I think that's a poor way to go about training and someone who sees dominance as more of a conquest rather than a long term journey.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Neilhh)

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RE: Submissive and Criteria - 11/30/2006 2:07:40 PM

QuietDom

Posts: 255
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilhh

A submissive once owned by a Domme should have no rights his ownership based on trust

Nonsense. The rights of the submissive within the relationship are negotiated between that individual Dom/me and sub. Who are you to say how everyone else has to arrange their D/s relationships? What do you plan to do about those who aren't doing it 'right'?

quote:

Before choosing to be owned does he have rights to say what he does not like?

Before choosing to be owned, he has the right to say what he does or does not like about anything, in most Western societies. It's a different story in, say, China, or Iran.

quote:

Should a Domme then always respect that ?
Should a Domme ignore that once owned ?

The choice to respect previously stated limits, or try to gradually bend them outwards, or just break them outright belongs to the Dom/me. And the choice of whether to stay around and put up with it belongs to the sub. Any Dom/me who refuses to respect limits may find it hard to keep a sub.

quote:

Should a Domme make this not like Criteria the highest Priority in his training ?

All the words make sense individually, but something went wrong when you put them together...

(in reply to Neilhh)

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RE: Submissive and Criteria - 11/30/2006 2:34:28 PM

RedSavageSlave

Posts: 733
Joined: 9/12/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: QuietDom

All the words make sense individually, but something went wrong when you put them together...

Oh my.. I do LOVE this one..

can I use it sometime??

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My give a damn's busted.

So many thoughts, so few of them rational

(in reply to QuietDom)

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RE: Submissive and Criteria - 11/30/2006 3:54:21 PM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilhh

A submissive once owned by a Domme should have no rights his ownership based on trust

Most slaves in general do not retain alot rights the usual one is the right to leave, however that is not always the rule. Submissives in general retain many rights and they like slaves, they negotiate those.

Before choosing to be owned does he have rights to say what he does not like?

Of course these are relationships after all and everyone has some limits of some kind. These should all be spelled out clearly by both parties.

Should a Domme then always respect that ?

If she is a good Domme she will, if not the submissive should look for another. Respect should be a mutual thing.

Should a Domme ignore that once owned ?

No you never ignore someones limits, you may agree to test them but never break them. AT least that is how I have it set up in My relationship.

Should a Domme make this not like Criteria the highest Priority in his training ?

Its at the Domme's discretion as to how his training is handled. I trained Mine in the way I want him to be for Me. We agreed on a few things we'd like to try and now its up to Me to decide if we will proceed or not.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to Neilhh)

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RE: Submissive and Criteria - 11/30/2006 6:30:02 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilhh

A submissive once owned by a Domme should have no rights his ownership based on trust

Is this your personal belief or what you think others, in particular Dommes, believe? A lot of us don't believe you have no rights.

quote:

Before choosing to be owned does he have rights to say what he does not like?

In my world, you always have the right to state what you do not like, but this will vary from person to person. Ask the Domme in question.

quote:

Should a Domme then always respect that ?

Dommes are just like anyone else...you can't force them to respect anything. You can only state that you need them to and then base your decisions on their actions. If you need her to respect your rights and she doesn't, you have the option of ending the relaitonship.

quote:

Should a Domme ignore that once owned ?

See answer above.

quote:

Should a Domme make this not like Criteria the highest Priority in his training ?

Depends on the goal. If the goal is to continually make someone do things they don't like, then yes. But, people who do this rarely have relationships for long...you can only beat down a strong person so long before they get fed up and leave. Beating down a person with low self esteem is a different thing...they will often stay simply because ANY attention is better than no attention at all...in which case, you have the perfect unhealthy submissive matched with the perfect unhealthy Dominant and everyone should be happy...or happily miserable.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Ms Relationship Books
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(in reply to Neilhh)

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RE: Submissive and Criteria - 11/30/2006 6:39:55 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilhh

A submissive once owned by a Domme should have no rights his ownership based on trust
Before choosing to be owned does he have rights to say what he does not like?
Should a Domme then always respect that ?
Should a Domme ignore that once owned ?
Should a Domme make this not like Criteria the highest Priority in his training ?

My personal beliefs:
A sub/slave has the right to state, at any time, their limits as well as their dislikes. I have the right to state the things that I want to do. If I decide to do something he/she doesn't like, they have the right to decide to obey or not. If they don't obey, there are consequences, but it is their right to not obey. Fortunately for me, I have the sense to find people who like doing most things that I like doing so that I am not constantly in a power struggle. That's draining and gets old fast. I want a willing sub/slave.

As for training...why would I want to spend all my energy making someone do the things they don't want to do ALL the time? The idea if having someone do something enough, they will begin to like it, is stupid and most likely going to fail. This is due to the fact that change is hard and thus unlikely, so a relationship based on this is apt to end, quickly. You can only beat down a strong person so much before they get fed up and leave. Find someone who's likes and dislikes match and there's little problem in this area.

Now, if she enjoys beating down someone with a low self esteem, she's as unhealthy as they are. The sad thing is, they are most likely going to stay because a lot of people with low self esteem feel that ANY attention is better than NO attention...in which case you have the perfect unhealthy sub/slave matched with the perfect unhealthy Dominant and everyone should be happy...or happily miserable.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to Neilhh)

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Post #: 7

RE: Submissive and Criteria - 11/30/2006 10:12:32 PM

DiamondOrchid

Posts: 172
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline

Last time I checked, the UK was a democratic slave-free country... so 'owning' a person isn't possible unless both parties consent. It still won't hold up in court, but let's ignore that little fact.

A sub/slave CHOOSES to give up his freedom (as you noted in your first sentence). That is his right. Therefore, a sub/slave may CHOOSE whom to give his freedom to, and under what conditions.

Basic human courtesy says that a Domme should respect the sub/slave, and only a monkeybuttwipe ignores another persons limits. Such people are not Dommes. So sayeth I.

As for training, if a sub/slave's hard limit is a favourite activity of the Domme, either 1) they are not compatible, and probably shouldn't be in a relationship together, 2) the sub/slave want to have his limits tested, pushed, and eventually removed. This usually takes a very long time, and a great deal of trust, or 3) someone is being a monkeybuttwipe and not being truthful or upfront.

D.

_____________________________

Relationships are like full time jobs and should be treated as such. If your boy/girlfriend wants to leave, they should give you two weeks' notice and severance pay. Also they should have to find you a temp.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

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RE: Submissive and Criteria - 11/30/2006 10:56:35 PM

Mikal

Posts: 3673
Status: offline

I was going to post an answer, but since you stated that "A submissive once owned by a Domme should have no rights his ownership based on trust ", it seems you see this as being a fact. If this is true, then why the questions? If you have no right, then you have no rights. Dommes will do as they please. If you can't handle it, they won't likely keep you.

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(in reply to DiamondOrchid)

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