RE: Who pays and retains?

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Lordandmaster -> RE: Who pays and retains? (12/4/2006 5:35:28 PM)
Just wondering--what's the logic behind that? quote: ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood I've wavered a lot over the "who pays" issue over the years, but I'm firmly in the "male pays" camp these days.

MsSonnetMarwood -> RE: Who pays and retains? (12/4/2006 5:41:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Just wondering--what's the logic behind that? quote: ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood I've wavered a lot over the "who pays" issue over the years, but I'm firmly in the "male pays" camp these days. Partly old fashioned. Partly as a form of courtship. Partly because of being a college student again. Partly because I've spent so much money on equipment, conferences, workshops, etc. over the years.

MisPandora -> RE: Who pays and retains? (12/4/2006 5:54:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood Regarding toys...I've had my own toybag for so long I can't really remember what it was like to have to rely on partners to have toys. Most of my toys I've purchased myself with my own money, although there have been a few gifts along the ways. I rarely play with a sub's toys, because quite frankly I really like the ones I have. I'm the exact same way. Unless someone has a really exceptional toy that I don't own, I play with my own stuff. I've got quite a bit of it, although thinned out some from when I operated a dungeon a number of years ago. (I still have a stocked playroom in my home with a jail cell.) Folks who buy things for me (as gifts, I keep them) know that I'm incredibly selective with the toys that stay in my playroom. Call me a toy snob. Gifts like a certificate to Mr S or Stockroom, paying for my order with Stan at Happy Tails, or taking me on a trip to Le Chateau Exotique or Passional are far wiser choices than simply picking something out. If it's something we've jointly purchased and we part ways, there's a humane way to end a relationship where personal belongings are returned and shared items are discussed. Communication about who wants what in the untimely demise of a relationship is always a mature way to go.

poplolly -> RE: Who pays and retains? (12/4/2006 6:13:44 PM)
No, LaM, it's not experience. It's paying attention to the news and (hanging head in shame) Oprah. I've been engaged once, married once and divorced once (all the same assh... uh, man!); however, having the knowledge did circumvent a really nasty argument about who got to keep my ring after 13 years of marriage.

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Who pays and retains? (12/4/2006 6:17:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood I've wavered a lot over the "who pays" issue over the years, but I'm firmly in the "male pays" camp these days. If it's someone I'm seeing regularly, I may pay every once in a while, or I might make dinner (I enjoy cooking), but in general - his responsibility. I do keep in mind his financial means when we make plans to go out. Keep in mind too that I am currently a college student; I'm dealing with all the issues of having tuition bills and not being able to work full time. While I can see the value in the person asking out being the one paying....in my experience, few subs will take the initiative to ask me out or plan an evening even when we're seeing each other and no matter how much I like someone planning an evening out for me. So if I followed that path...I'd be paying most of the time. Regarding toys...I've had my own toybag for so long I can't really remember what it was like to have to rely on partners to have toys. Most of my toys I've purchased myself with my own money, although there have been a few gifts along the ways. I rarely play with a sub's toys, because quite frankly I really like the ones I have. quote: ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Just wondering--what's the logic behind that? quote: ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood I've wavered a lot over the "who pays" issue over the years, but I'm firmly in the "male pays" camp these days. Partly old fashioned. Partly as a form of courtship. Partly because of being a college student again. Partly because I've spent so much money on equipment, conferences, workshops, etc. over the years. Exactly What MsSonnetMarwood said. I can't think of a single thing to add! Except that I am not a college student. But My income is more limited than that of most of the boys who come a'callin'. Yep...exactly what She said!

Lordandmaster -> RE: Who pays and retains? (12/4/2006 6:20:55 PM)
As far as I'm concerned, if it means getting rid of her, she can keep the fucking ring... quote: ORIGINAL: poplolly I've been engaged once, married once and divorced once (all the same assh... uh, man!); however, having the knowledge did circumvent a really nasty argument about who got to keep my ring after 13 years of marriage.

poplolly -> RE: Who pays and retains? (12/4/2006 6:28:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster As far as I'm concerned, if it means getting rid of her, she can keep the fucking ring... quote: ORIGINAL: poplolly I've been engaged once, married once and divorced once (all the same assh... uh, man!); however, having the knowledge did circumvent a really nasty argument about who got to keep my ring after 13 years of marriage. It wasn't the ring that was the issue. It was the control. I got my ring, he got the house, the acreage, the vehicles, blah blah blah. I got out. Thank God. So if it means getting rid of him, he can keep the fucking house....

undergroundsea -> RE: Who pays and retains? (12/4/2006 10:19:27 PM)
Men paying is so 20th century. If a domme does not shower me with gifts within the first 72 hours of meeting me, I move on to the next one. I tell you, it's tough though. I keep coming across one fake after another. ;-) Cheers, Sea

BeautifulRacket -> RE: Who pays and retains? (12/4/2006 10:25:55 PM)
What great, thoughtful replies from everyone! I'm getting a lot out of this discussion, and hope others are as well. [:)] AquaticSub, I really like your idea of having your own collection to offer your Dominant. When I started making a list of everything I'd need/want with a partner earlier in the relationship, it certainly added up quickly resource-wise. Feel free to disregard if this is too personal, but I was wondering if a partner has ever restricted your use of your toys, either by instruction or taking possession of them for a period of time. How did, or would, you feel about that if they have/did do that? LadyHugs, thank you so much for providing all of that useful info! I love multitasking items, and I'll definitely keep your ideas on floggers handy for the future. May I contact you if (or maybe I should say "when" [;)]) I have specific questions? MsSonnet, you make an excellent point about the person who invites paying. I've also found subs to be reluctant to take the initiative, though the ones I've met have been pretty firm about wanting to pay even though I've made it clear I'm happy to go dutch, especially on the first meeting. I can't say I mind a more traditional approach, yet I do always try to be very budget-conscious/considerate in my decisions as well - that's just how I am in general. Has anyone asked their sub (or been asked, in the case of subs) to make toys/equiptment, or at least gather materials? I'm attending a couple of classes on making toys and using common items soon, and thought it might be an interesting task to assign, so I figure it doesn't hurt to ask if anyone has experiences to share.

MisPandora -> RE: Who pays and retains? (12/4/2006 10:41:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BeautifulRacket Has anyone asked their sub (or been asked, in the case of subs) to make toys/equiptment, or at least gather materials? I'm attending a couple of classes on making toys and using common items soon, and thought it might be an interesting task to assign, so I figure it doesn't hurt to ask if anyone has experiences to share. Yes. In fact, we have a local submissives group that does toy making workshops and trips to craft stores and Home Depot for pervertibles.

BootBlackBlast -> RE: Who pays and retains? (12/4/2006 11:17:53 PM)
When I first started getting into the lifestyle I added a leather/toy tagline to my budget. Thankfully my girlfriend is a financial analyst in her real life and understands my needs for toys and awesome and generally expensive leather clothing. She knew that I would spend money on such items frivalously anyway and figured that one way to circumvent my spending too much was just to give it to me in my budget. Also, any money I make through extra work, overtime, or otherwise after my bills are paid is mine to spend on whatever I want. It's our way of keeping my purchases in check and also my way to add new toys and clothing to the perverbial "bag" rather often. I have amassed a small but respectable amount of toys and clothing. When my boy and I got together one of the first decisions we made was about toys. And any of my play subs know that I would rather have a gift certificate or card to my favorite vendors than for them to just buy me a gift. So that helps to keep me in what I want.

imtempting -> RE: Who pays and retains? (12/5/2006 5:01:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: undergroundsea Men paying is so 20th century. If a domme does not shower me with gifts within the first 72 hours of meeting me, I move on to the next one. I tell you, it's tough though. I keep coming across one fake after another. ;-) Cheers, Sea I hear u on that.. If you buy it then you should keep it, I know alot of women eaning alot more then me.

Lashra -> RE: Who pays and retains? (12/5/2006 5:05:21 AM)
It depends. I have bought toys and he has bought some. We consider them "ours" but in our contract is clearly states that whoever bought the toy originally gets to keep it. I keep a list of who purchased what/when so that its always clear. One thing you may want to try is going in half on everything, or you purchasing the floggers/bindings and let him purchase the insertables/gags etc. That way if something does happen he can keep the toys that were used on/in him. ~Lashra

AquaticSub -> RE: Who pays and retains? (12/5/2006 12:05:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BeautifulRacket AquaticSub, I really like your idea of having your own collection to offer your Dominant. When I started making a list of everything I'd need/want with a partner earlier in the relationship, it certainly added up quickly resource-wise. Feel free to disregard if this is too personal, but I was wondering if a partner has ever restricted your use of your toys, either by instruction or taking possession of them for a period of time. How did, or would, you feel about that if they have/did do that? My toy collection has evolved over the years. I've gone from a simple vibrator to several hundred dollars worth of toys, including a two floggers, two crops, a box of chains and ropes, many vibrators and plugs... it goes on and on. I need a new toy though. I've got the itch Grins No, a partner hasn't ever taken my toys from me or restricted my use of them. Though I have been told to use certain toys when he wasn't around, my dominant always decides what we will use during a particular play session.

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Who pays and retains? (12/5/2006 1:22:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BeautifulRacket Has anyone asked their sub (or been asked, in the case of subs) to make toys/equiptment, or at least gather materials? I'm attending a couple of classes on making toys and using common items soon, and thought it might be an interesting task to assign, so I figure it doesn't hurt to ask if anyone has experiences to share. Yes! And some of the easiest things to make are spreader bars... I bought the materials at Home Depot (aka DomDepot). They cut the poles into the lengths I wanted, so that was already done! A little sanding, attach some eye-bolts on the ends and elsewhere if you like, finish off with a nice coat or two of black spray laquer, and they are gorgeous! I also knew a boy who loved PVC so much, he wanted to try to make a humbler with that. I let him try. It didn't work too well, but he had a good time fiddling with it. Since he wanted it, he paid for those materials himself. But a humbler is a good thing to work on, if the sub is good with wood working. And the boys always had to untangle and prepare any new rope, as well as keep it clean and nice for the next use.

LadyHugs -> RE: Who pays and retains? (12/5/2006 1:43:17 PM)
Dear BeautifulRacket, Ladies and Gentlemen; As to your request to contact me off forums for advice and 'tricks of the trade'--everybody is welcomed to contact me and I'll do my best to assist in passing what I know along. Respectfully submitted, Lady Hugs

AquaticSub -> RE: Who pays and retains? (12/5/2006 3:32:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold Yes! And some of the easiest things to make are spreader bars... I bought the materials at Home Depot (aka DomDepot). They cut the poles into the lengths I wanted, so that was already done! A little sanding, attach some eye-bolts on the ends and elsewhere if you like, finish off with a nice coat or two of black spray laquer, and they are gorgeous! My dominant cut a length of bamboo, wrapped it in duct tape and tied two of my silk scarves to it (one at either end). He ties these to my ankle cuffs. I thought the scarves would slide off, but it works beautiful. We didn't pay a cent for it (asides from the cuffs) because the bamboo grows at his house.

undergroundsea -> RE: Who pays and retains? (12/5/2006 10:29:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: imtempting quote: ORIGINAL: undergroundsea Men paying is so 20th century. If a domme does not shower me with gifts within the first 72 hours of meeting me, I move on to the next one. I tell you, it's tough though. I keep coming across one fake after another. I hear u on that.. I was being facetious. But I will gladly comment more seriously. I think that each of us will encounter more relationships that will eventually end versus one that will last. I think it is fair to allow the possibility that a relationship may eventually run its course, especially in the early phase of the relationship. I think toys either person buys belong to that person unless explicitly given as a gift. I see myself to be incompatible with someone who requires gifts. For me, giving gifts is a nice gesture but not a duty. And in my relationships I would like to see nice gestures go in both directions. Gifts are indeed a way of expressing affection. However, I think this expression applies when it occurs voluntarily versus under compulsion. I think the argument to require gifts as a display of affection or devotion can too easily be a convenient disguise for material motives. Perhaps I am cynical about such matters. Cheers, Sea

AAkasha -> RE: Who pays and retains? (12/5/2006 10:56:41 PM)
When I am the one pursuing, I do all the paying. When I am being pursued, I prefer it vice versa. With regards to toys, I have a large collection, but like new toys with new partners. If I am the one pursuing him, I buy the toys (gags, insertables, etc.) I want used on him. If he is pursuing me and hopes that I will use them, he buys them. In both cases, he keeps the toys at the end of the relationship. I enjoy spending money on partners. It's part of the pursuit/conquer dynamic. I also don't expect gifts in return from subs when I am the one doing the pursuing -- his surrender is gift enough. The enjoyment for me comes in the process of giving/surprising. I also think giving toys to a male submissive is selfish anyway -- after all, it's MY fetish I am indulging (I pick out the toys, not him!). In my current primary relationship I control the money and toys, but we've been together a long time. If we ever split up we'd have much bigger issues to deal with than the dividing up of our gear. Akasha

Vendaval -> RE: Who pays and retains? (12/6/2006 1:44:46 AM)
Some items are presented as gifts and I keep them. As a few others have stated, if a piece of equipment is an insertable or pierces the skin or is exposed to bodily fluids, that object stays with that sub. I prefer to select the impact gear myself to test for weight, range of motion, balance and suppleness. If I want a particular item and a sub wants to purchase something for me, then I tell them what to purchase and will keep the item. As a side note in regards to engagement rings - I think that the woman should return the ring regardless of who broke the engagement if the ring or the materials used for it were family heirloom pieces from the man's family. Regards, Vendaval

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