Our Falling Currency (Full Version)

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aviinterra -> Our Falling Currency (12/4/2006 6:03:04 AM)

I travel frequently for work and pleasure, and have noticed disturbingly how little our dollar is worth. This hit me fully while in Germany not long ago- having received a few cents for each of the dollars. From 2001 until today, the dollar has fallen about 35%, which means our savings are worth 35% less than in 2001. There is also quiet talk of replacing the dollar, with a multi-national currency like the euro is to the EU. It would be called the Amero, or something like it, and would be in the US, Canada and Mexico. I feel slightly disturbed by such a concept. Is this also disturbing to you or woud you welcome a new currency? Have you noticed the falling of the dollar?



sophia37 -> RE: Our Falling Currency (12/4/2006 6:10:57 AM)

Im old enough to remember the 70's. So yes I see that the dollar buys far less. Our wages have not really increased our buying power. They've fallen. I feel this is a very serious state of affairs and that possibly within my lifetime, I will see a grim reality come to pass.
If changing our currency is the answer, then so be it. I dont believe though that THAT, is what ails us.



seeksfemslave -> RE: Our Falling Currency (12/4/2006 6:27:40 AM)

Aviinterra said....
From 2001 until today, the dollar has fallen about 35%, which means our savings are worth 35% less than in 2001.

This statement is simply not true. You need to find out what the rate of inflation has been between 2001/6 to get a measure of by how much your savings have diminished. Since the rate of  inflation is a sensitive political/economic piece of data I believe official stats. wildly underestimate the true rate.

As I understand it the reason the dollar has been allowed to fall is due to massive balance of trade and federal govnt. deficits.
The UK suffers the same problems but our currency has remained stable over the last few years. I just dont understand that at all !!



meatcleaver -> RE: Our Falling Currency (12/4/2006 6:52:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aviinterra

There is also quiet talk of replacing the dollar, with a multi-national currency like the euro is to the EU. It would be called the Amero, or something like it, and would be in the US, Canada and Mexico. I feel slightly disturbed by such a concept. Is this also disturbing to you or woud you welcome a new currency? Have you noticed the falling of the dollar?


Merging currencies won't change the underlying weakness of the dollar, the reasons for the dollar's weakness will just be transfered to the new currency. The EU brought in the euro for political reasons as much as economic ones. The EU wanted a common currency for a unified market and to compete with the dollar. The strengths and weaknesses of all the merging currencies averaged themselves out. Hence the new currency was seen as weak by the Germans and strong by the Italians. The US dollar is so much more important and powerful currency than the Canadian and Mexican currencies that nothing much would change.



sub4hire -> RE: Our Falling Currency (12/4/2006 7:06:38 AM)

I have to agree with Cleaver.  Just by merging our currency with another country is not going to fix anything.
It is true our dollar has went down over the years.  Though that is due to the economy as a whole. 
Back in the days of my youth I used to be able to cross the border into Mexico.  Exchange my money and I'd get 22,000 peso's for every dollar.
If I crossed over today I'd get



10.98160 Mexican Peso

10.98160 Mexican Peso per US Dollar
It does not look good when you look at things like that.
http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/market/crncconverter.asp



subfever -> RE: Our Falling Currency (12/4/2006 7:47:54 AM)

Yes, I would welcome a new currency; one that is owned and printed by the US Government for the benefit of the people, and not by the privately-owned Federal Reserve which benefits the super-elite... like what we have now.

A multi-national currency would just be another step towards the elite's secret plan towards a one world government and currency.

http://www.populistamerica.com/outing_the_constitutional_criminals

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001519.html



RiotGirl -> RE: Our Falling Currency (12/4/2006 9:04:05 AM)

aye and if we went to a one world government we would be that much closer to the doors of armegedon

Revelations 6 - The First Seal





Archer -> RE: Our Falling Currency (12/4/2006 9:39:14 AM)

Currency value is a closed system, for the value of one nation's to rise others must fall.
I find it a bit odd to see some who want worldwide economics to become more evenly distributed rgue about the falling of the dollar like its a bad thing. I can see conservatives doing it without coganative disconnect, but for those with  socialistic viewpoint How can he rest of the world become economicly advance without a concurrent reduction in the economic strength of the US?




LadyEllen -> RE: Our Falling Currency (12/4/2006 10:12:58 AM)

As seeks said - the USD is falling because of the balance of trade figures and loads of other stuff I dont understand much any more.

But for US exporters, its a good thing. It means that US products become cheaper on export and so more should be sold. This then requires increased production in the US, and hopefully the return of the only true source of wealth, manufacturing.

Meanwhile, it also makes all the imports the US is sucking in, more expensive, reducing their number, and encouraging home manufacture of those goods.

E



ToGiveDivine -> RE: Our Falling Currency (12/4/2006 10:40:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

As seeks said - the USD is falling because of the balance of trade figures and loads of other stuff I dont understand much any more.

But for US exporters, its a good thing. It means that US products become cheaper on export and so more should be sold. This then requires increased production in the US, and hopefully the return of the only true source of wealth, manufacturing.

Meanwhile, it also makes all the imports the US is sucking in, more expensive, reducing their number, and encouraging home manufacture of those goods.

E


And a somewhat firm grasp of economics seems to be another of your talents :-D



Lordandmaster -> RE: Our Falling Currency (12/4/2006 10:41:59 AM)

That's not always true, by the way:

http://www.chicagofed.org/consumer_information/strong_dollar_weak_dollar.cfm

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

But for US exporters, its a good thing.



Archer -> RE: Our Falling Currency (12/4/2006 11:06:54 AM)

Se now those are things that can influence the valuation, among other things.
The reason or manner in which the dollar gets relatively weaker in comparison to other currences can be a legitimate thing to discuss but the eveng out of currences around the globe would seem be something that hose who advocate wealth redistribution would find to be a good thing.

It is the disconnect between the goal and things that move the world towards the goal that confuses me.



slaveMastery -> RE: Our Falling Currency (12/4/2006 11:39:27 AM)

First of all, a weaker dollar is not a random or arbitrary event, but the result of years and years of efforts of policy by various U.S. governments, as well as the Fed (Federal reserve Bank). The goal is to strengthen the U.S. economy and reduce a trade balance deficit with foreign nations. If the dollar is weak, then American products are cheaper for other countries and our exports (and US production) increase - at the same time, the other countries' products are more expensive, causing Americans to buy more (since cheaper) American products and import less.

Secondly, on the topic of a joint North American currency - that is truly in the distant future. The EURO was a final step in creating one huge and homogeous market that was preceded by decades of working at the elimination of trade barriers between the EU nations. The joint currency is the final step, not an early-stage step. As for the removal of trade barriers between the U.S./Canada/Mexico - NAFTA looks good on paper, but has a long way to go in removing trade barriers that would make the creation of an Amero (or whatever it might be called) viable. And last I checked, the U.S. decided to build a wall between Mexico and the U.S. - commonly not what one would describe as "removing barriers".



subfever -> RE: Our Falling Currency (12/4/2006 11:51:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Currency value is a closed system, for the value of one nation's to rise others must fall.


In international trade, this is true.

quote:

I find it a bit odd to see some who want worldwide economics to become more evenly distributed argue about the falling of the dollar like its a bad thing.


Since I don't trade internationally, or travel abroad very often, I really don't care too much whether or not the dollar rises or falls internationally.

Of course, if it rises or falls too sharply internationally, we might eventually feel a trickle-down effect in the prices we pay for goods produced outside our borders. This is why the consumer goods manufactorers abroad want to devalue their currency as quickly as we do. If they didn't, their goods would cost Americans a lot more, and may no longer be competitive.

What I care more about is that our dollars have devalued by over 96% since 1913 (the year the privately-owned Federal Reserve took control of "our" money) and by over 80% since 1971 (when our money's last tie to gold was severed). This is an insidious tax that very few people ever really think about in depth.

quote:

I can see conservatives doing it without coganative disconnect, but for those with  socialistic viewpoint How can he rest of the world become economicly advance without a concurrent reduction in the economic strength of the US?


Well, my views are certainly more socialistic than capitalistic. But I'm not certain why that should either effect my opinion or give my opinion any more weight than the next guy's.

I don't believe it's really a matter of the rest of the world becoming economically advanced without a concurrent reduction in the economic strength of the US. I think it's simply a matter of the rest of the world keeping up with our rate of dollar deflation for competitive trading purposes on consumer goods they produce for sale here in the US. 





aviinterra -> RE: Our Falling Currency (12/4/2006 11:53:25 AM)

While I understand that a weaker dollar in theory is supposed to help boost the economy by making our exports cheaper, it does not solve other problems. Imports are in demand in this country, and Americans do not see US-made products as good or worthy of buying. The luxury market is the not suffering right now, and those that have money tend to buy European or Asian luxury goods, things that have no counterparts that are made in the U.S. Also, what does the U.S. export? Steel is no good, not even American companies use it, and often, under the term export, services are included. Even our oranges and apples are imported ( why is it so hard to actually find locally grown produce?? It is exported for almost nothing, not being able to compete with South America ( banana wars ). Also, Bernake has promised to double the amount of currency issued- that can only cause inflation and more desperate sell off of the dollar, something that will weaken the U.S. more than exports will heal it.



Termyn8or -> RE: Our Falling Currency (12/4/2006 12:54:26 PM)

"It is the disconnect between the goal and things that move the world towards the goal that confuses me. "

An astute observation, but further reasoning can clear it all up. Thinking omnidirestionally helps. When you put a car in reverse the engine still turns the same way, by thinking backwards things sometimes become apparent.While one must be vigilant not to be sucked into post hoc ergo propter hoc, many times actions can expose motives.

While you can't take one action and figure everything out, the body of actions commited by the rulers tells a woeful tale. And I used the word commited properly. With news sources worldwide and basically snubbing the TV news I've come to a conclusion. Agree or not, but it is this ; they want all the money. Period. Life is a big fucking game of monopoly to them. And they will never stop, it is a compulsion.

Wealth in today's world is not distributed according to ability, but according to means. The clique that sucks the economies of nations dry is powerful and closed off. You only see the tip of the iceberg when you hear about record profits for Haliburton, KBR and the oil companies. It goes much deeper than that. Governments have now become a form of institutionalized greed. The media goes along with it because they are part of it, their function is to distract the people from the issues that really matter. Big money funds the lobbyists, who are nothing but bribery artists.

Big money also does things like currency speculation and converting portions of their specie to gold or other stable forms of "money" thus insulating themselves from the havoc they wreak. There is a giant sucking sound, but it is not coming from Mexico.

There are many factors that affect the exchange rate between various currencies, so judging from exchange rates is not all that accurate. Looking at something stable like real estate is a much better cue. A given average property appears to grow in value even though there have been no improvements or other factors, such as the land becoming more desirable for one reason or another, such as encroaching population. Surprisingly one thing that does give a somewhat good indication is the price of a loaf of bread.

Yes, I am crazy of course, but this is not. The production cost of a loaf of bread is fairly stable, although not immune to the effect of the bottom dropping out of the currency. I chose a loaf of bread as an example because it is not laden with taxes and levies like say, cigarettes and alcoholic beverages, even soda. In the absence of any bovine diseases running rampant a gallon of milk could be used.

Remember you can't just use any one indicator to see how bad it is. I used to live really well on $400 a week. Try that now. That $400 can barely cover my food, intoxicants and gasoline. This does not take into account that I have a house that is paid off, nor anything like clothing, garbage bags, broken appliances that need to be replaced etc. While $400 a week was somrthing you could do something with in the past, like buy a house, perhaps a new car, you can barely subsist on it now.

Most of the problem is taxes. You pay all kinds of taxes that you don't consider taxes. For example you license plates. That is a tax plain and simple. They might say it goes for the roads, but millions the feds have siphoned off are allocated to that, we should have gold plated roads by now, or at least yellow brick.

OK, Bill Gates deserves to be a millionaire. What he did has been discussed, and it is not his geekhood that got him to deserve that, he is a thoroughly ruthless businessman. Millionaire OK, but a billionaire ? Most people don't even really have a grasp of what a billion is. I do because of science and technology, but I couldn't really fathom a billion dollars. There comes a time when one has enough money, will never have to work again and can live in style off the interest. Thus my monopoly game theory. It is indeed a compulsion, and then when they convert their money into power, the aim is to get more money. Why ? They certainly do not need it.

Now we have obsessive compulsive people running the world. Still want gun control ?

T



Archer -> RE: Our Falling Currency (12/4/2006 1:08:36 PM)

Actually I was speaking of true believers as opposed to politians.
People who espouse socialistic/ progressive/ liberal (pick the one that offends the least)motivations openly as a part of their beliefs system.



popeye1250 -> RE: Our Falling Currency (12/4/2006 2:58:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

Yes, I would welcome a new currency; one that is owned and printed by the US Government for the benefit of the people, and not by the privately-owned Federal Reserve which benefits the super-elite... like what we have now.

A multi-national currency would just be another step towards the elite's secret plan towards a one world government and currency.

http://www.populistamerica.com/outing_the_constitutional_criminals

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001519.html


I agree and we need to stop spending money that we do not have as well.
And these "Free Trade" agreements are killing us.
Year after year of trade deficits.



UtopianRanger -> RE: Our Falling Currency (12/4/2006 3:50:33 PM)

quote:


I agree and we need to stop spending money that we do not have as well.
And these "Free Trade" agreements are killing us.
Year after year of trade deficits.


 The dollar's perpetual state of devaluation is tied to two things : Manufacturing based-non-productivity {tied in with an utterly preposterous trade imbalance} and massive debt to foreign creditors {The US is the largest debtor nation in the history of the world} .

It's really a simple formula: Imagine the United States as your spouse who doesn't work but likes to go shopping. You make a hundred dollars a day from working eight hours; your spouse in turn goes out and spends a hundred-and-fifty dollars a day putting the extra fifty bucks on the American express.

Now something happens at your job and maybe you have to take a pay cut. Now you earn eighty dollars a day instead of a hundred. But your spouse continues to spend a hundred-and-fifty a day now putting an extra seventy bucks on the American express.

Two things eventually happen: First....American express cuts you off and your spouse can't charge the excess seventy bucks anymore. Second... you're in a bankrupt status, you no longer have any borrowing capacity and your creditors begin to come after you.

It's bad enough if you're an individual and you get into this kind of trouble, but what happens to a nation with the dominant reserve currency in this kind of trouble? Well.... it's creditors eventually decide to cut their losses and divest themselves out of that currency until that currency is virtually worthless because its only relevance is that its tied to massive debt.


I hate to be the bearer of bad news....but it's coming folks and there's not a single thing Barrack Obama, John McCain, Rudy Giuliani, Hilliary Clinton or any of the other ''usual suspects'' is going to do about it.

We're gonna see change like we've never seen before [;)]


 - R



Lordandmaster -> RE: Our Falling Currency (12/4/2006 4:34:17 PM)

Yeah, if people think the dollar is low now, imagine how low it would go if China ever decides to sell its holdings.  But they have their own reasons to keep their currency cheap.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

The dollar's perpetual state of devaluation is tied to two things : Manufacturing based-non-productivity {tied in with an utterly preposterous trade imbalance} and massive debt to foreign creditors {The US is the largest debtor nation in the history of the world} .



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