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gypsygrl -> RE: Positive Thinking (12/10/2006 4:20:23 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
quote:
I don't know if you were replying to me, luckydog1, or just doing a fast reply, but I agree that the Norman Vincent Pealeish "Power of Positive Thinking" stuff is basically magical thinking. The universe I live in is heliocentric and not ego centric. Things don't revolve around me nor do things respond to my thoughts about them.
It is ironic that science is beginning to measure the effectiveness of prayer. It is also ironic that someone given a placebo will heal because they "think" it so.
I understand your sentiment, but at the same time I do not agree with it, and not everyone in the psychological community does either. Take Carl Jung for instance, and the scarab.
I'm not much of a scientist and certainly don't take the word of science as the last one, but do know a lot about the history and philosophy of science. Just as an aside, do you really mean to imply that you don't believe the earth revolves around the sun? All I was saying with this comment is that I'm convinced that the world exists independant of my own mind, and, in saying this, I'm saying I'm not a philosophical idealist.
The science vs. faith controversey is as old as our current notions of science and, at least since Decartes, scientists have always tried to reconcile their discoveries with their religious committments. Perry Miller has a wonderful historical review of this in his book of essays Errand into the Wilderness. The essay itself is titled "The End of the World" or something like that. For the most part, science itself is, another religion. Feyarabend makes this point in Against Method. He has an anarchic theory of knowledge, and based on my own research into the history of science, particularly child psychology and child development, I have to agree with him.
I'm very much familiar with the placebo effect and use it with my kids all the time. Their very responsive to my little made up potions consisting mostly of baking soda that cures pretty much every little thing that happens to a kid. But, when I do this, they're responding to MY attitude/confidence because they take for granted my authority as a "healer." They're convinced they're gonna die and its only when I step in with my little rituals do they start to feel better. Of course, if I thought they were gonna die, I'd take them to the doctor and I know they're exaggerating the significance of the scrape/ bump/ bruise/ bug bite. Personally, I have my own healing rituals that I practice with myself, but even here, I think they work because I basically don't trust medicine, and have more faith in my body's own healing power than I do the healing power of doctors.
On the psychological community: My therapist is very spiratual. If she were scientifically trained or a licensed psychologist, I'd doubt we'd have much to say to each other. We work well together because we have similar views on things, and she affirms my own spiritual sense of things and thinks in terms of energy and stuff. I suspect that I'm probably less of a scientist than you are in these matters, and more spiritual. In all honesty, I'm not waiting on science to "prove" the power of prayer (which, to me, is simply a form of asking for things, though the act of asking is largely rhetorical and indirect).
In my own life/experience, many times I've asked for something, and its been provided, though the process remains mysterious. I don't really need science to measure it. :)
But, I still think the earth revolves around the sun, and there's limits to my own spiritual powers. I don't expect to recieve anything more than I really need and try to remain humble in the face of the universe. Its not really about me and my thoughts/ attitude/ personal energy.
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