MasterFireMaam
Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
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ORIGINAL: shatteringlilium
I've been thinking about this a lot. And, please, stop me if I'm wrong. Although in this case, I think it's not a case of wrong or right, but more a case of opinions - and the harsh truth and reality.
I'm going to be up front with you all - I'm a relationship disaster. Ahhh, yes. My first boyfriend? Gay. My second? Abusive! My third attempt? Didn't quite get that far. My fourth relationship attempt? Poly disaster, for many reasons, my fault, Her fault, His fault. Everyone's at fault but the fingers are all pointing in different directions..~! (mostly my own damned fault, as is apparant by their sudden disinterest in even talking to me <3)
My intuition at this point is that you, like a lot of us, simply don't know yourself well. This takes time and a lot of soul searching. For me, one of the most helpful books was Sacred Contracts by Caroline Myss. Check it out...maybe it might help you. There are a lot of other lessons, but honestly, there's not enough time or room here to discuss it.
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.....why there is no friggin' guidebook for any of it....
There's no guidebook to life; it's trail and error. I feel that it's set up this way because we, as humans, inherently learn through trials and tribulations. There are some self help stuff about relationships. Ds and Ms relationships are just like any other, only that we have chosen to 1) have stucture and 2) transfer authority.
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Is it just me, or are a startlingly large number of Dominants really damanding and pushy people who expect to get what they want when they want it, no ifs ands or buts? Yes, I am referencing all those "you will do MY bidding when I tell you to do it" blah blah blah posts.
Yes, there are a lot of us. What's usualy not discussed (althought it has been recently on this forum) is that, in exchanged for (sometimes blind) obedience from the slave, the Master has the responsibility to ensure the slave can obey safely and sanely. The example I used before was this: I can tell my girl to go sit in the street. she can ask questions as to why and I have the option, or not, to tell her why. In the end, I expect her to do it; to obey. If she chooses not to (and this is the one choice that all slaves have in my world) there are consequences. But, if she does, it is then my responsibility to go and direct traffic in such a way that she doesn't get run over...or to choose a time and/or street where the traffic is light or non-existant. There are those of us out here that believe this philosophy.
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And.. granted, this is from my very slim amount of personal experience, but... Is it common for a lot of new Dominants to not fully grasp the amount of responsibility they actually are going to have toward their submissive?
Yes, it's common...just as common as it is for people to not grasp the amount of responsibility they bear for making ANY relationship work.
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Similarly, are not a lot of people who come with the brand of submissive really just insecure little girls or boys looking for love and attention and protection in return for their undying devotion? Idealism at its core? Is it fair to expect, from a submissive standpoint, to feel safe and protected at the hand of your Dominant even as you are submitting to the pain of their tortures, be it beatings or shibari or whathaveyou? Doesn't that trust need to be purchased by the Dominant, not given freely or rashly by the submissive?
You already know these answers.
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How many people out there are actually willing to take on the full responsability of a dependent submissive who is expecting their life to be run to the fullest?
A rhetorical question. Who can answer this? I sense that you're merely frustrated...patience isn't easy, but it is required.
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If a person who wants to be a Dominant doesn't even have time to run their own life, is it fair of them to seek out other people's lives to run?
Of course it's not. But, how many people do you know that run their own lives perfectly? You've already admitted that you don't. I don't. I don't know anyone who does. Is it fair of you to expect the Dominant to be perfect? What you're really looking for is someone who has it more together than YOU. Look at where your lines are in this kind of thing...compassion is important, but so are your needs.
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Equally, in the case of a currently-existing open relationship where a Poly dynamic is somewhat forced (Domme or Dom married to another person, worst case a non-Dominant person), is it really fair to expect the submissive to live with the Dominant and the Dominant's lifepartner together, to have to juggle the relationships contained within this dynamic, and still be expected to maintain the ability to bend to every whim the Dominant comes up with?
Yes, it's reasonable...if it's done with informed consent. The Dominant needs to, in my opinion, specifically state what they want. It is then up to the slaves involved to obey or not...remembering that there are consequences. For some, they simply cannot be poly and it's a deal breaker.
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I understand that there are a million different combinations of Dominants and submissives out there.. I guess in my meandering way I'm trying to figure out if there is a "basic" structure that a D/s relationship is generally built upon if it's going to be given a chance to last.
There is no basic structure. There is, however, a basic tenants that I believe are necessary:
Informed consent
Open communication
Obedience on the part of the slave
Responsibility on part of the Master for that obedience
Responsibility on the part of both, mature, equal adults in the relationship for their own mental, emotional, spiritual and physical well-being. It is my belief that, while the Master guides, cares for and expects obedience, it is not healthy for the slave to give over these four things without providing feedback at to what will and/or does cause harm.
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Also - the word "relationship" brings to mind "compromise" - is there truly no such thing in a D/s relationship? Does the Dominant have full say?
Depends on how the relationship is set up. In mine, I listen to the slave, but, in the end, the final word is mine.
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What use are safe words if the sub is going to be expected to follow every word the Dominant gives them? If they are going to be told they aren't good submissives if they aren't completely submissive at the very first?
Again, it depends on how the relationship is set up.
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I'm also curious about poly relationship dynamics. I was thinking about it and, being me, I took it in this direction:
If you're married to someone you love very very dearly.. why would you need to go out and find others to romp with, or to have your own pet or whatever seperate from your married life? If you love that person so much, why are they not enough?
Because some people ar wired poly and, for some of us, there isn't one person who can meet all our needs. Others are more than happy to conceed certain things in order to be or have only one. Check out the poly forums.
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I asked my former Miss this and she just basically said "Oh honey, it has nothing to do with being enough" and didn't elaborate. I said this because I expressed my frustrations at not feeling like I was enough for anyone - certainly in our failed relationship, I wasn't enough for either her or her husband, and her husband especially had problems with me. (I run on the emotional side of life and he on the logical; I had this problem with my abusive ex mentioned above, although Ma'am's hubby dear wasn't abusive, just - well. That's neither here nor there.)
It simply sounds like the three of you weren't a match. Sometimes we don't know that until we're in the relationship.
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I dunno, I guess I want to hear some things from all sides. I suppose some little part of me wants my own opinions to be validated or taken apart where needed, and a solid base to be placed under my feet so I can keep walking without wondering if the next step will be the dropoff. I want my ex to read this and to read people's experiences - problems, good times, solid advice from lifer subs and Dominants - and get her head on her shoulders so she doesn't end up with too much heartache on her search for her sub. Because knowing her and her hubby like I do now, not as well as I had wished as he kind of closed me off, but knowing their personalities - she's going to have a hell of a time finding someone who can handle both her whimsical, demanding ways and his "freedom!! But agree with me all the time!" attitude.
I guess I'm also looking for that spark to give me hope that later on down the road - when I'm not a mess of nerves and doubts and dwangstiness - I can know that the type of relationship I am after is out there. I understand if there is no guidebook, but gimme a few road signs and I'll find my way there eventually.
Confusingly yours,
Shattering Lilium
A glitter in the darkness;
A crystal lily, deepest black
You reach out then to touch it
But you let your hand fall back
Start looking at yourself rather than looking at other people. You cannot control other people's "stuff". You can only control your "stuff". What do YOU want in a relationship? What are YOUR needs? What are your lines in the sand, so to speak. Once you figure yourself out a bit, then start looking again...and don't settle.
Master Fire
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The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Where's my freakin' guide book? D/s for dummies? Anything? - 
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RE: Where's my freakin' guide book? D/s for dummies? An... - 
...And I do agree with what Emporer 1956 had to say....stay well....Tempting
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