Gorean, novel for lifestyle????

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

Gorean, novel for lifestyle????

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> Gorean, novel for lifestyle????

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Gorean, novel for lifestyle???? - 2/17/2005 2:18:33 PM

His1girl

Posts: 3
Status: offline

i have a burning question for Goreans/somehwhat Goreans/diehard Goreans/nonbelievers out there....

Is Gorean a real life - liveable - option????

Is it simply a set of books for horny teenagers, who cant grow up????

Is it really somewhat liveable in todays society????

id just like to ask generally, "wtf?"......

thanks
girl

< Message edited by ModeratorOne -- 2/19/2005 10:40:58 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Gorean, novel for teens, or lifestyle???? - 2/17/2005 5:14:28 PM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

There is another thread underway on a very similar topic in this section. You might start by reading there. You may also send mail to my slave edana (she has a profile on this site). She lives as a Gorean slave and is generally happy to answer questions from women who are genuinely curious.

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to His1girl)

Post #: 2

RE: Gorean, novel for teens, or lifestyle???? - 2/17/2005 10:03:06 PM

MidnightWriter

Posts: 131
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline

Is Gorean a R/L liveable option?

It's not my cuppa, but it seems to work well for a whole lot of people.

When I came up, that was the only written work available - there was no _Screw the Roses_ or _SM 101_ at the bookstore. I learned a good bit as a raw newbie.

I don't follow it, but I won't dis it, either.

(in reply to His1girl)

Post #: 3

RE: Gorean, novel for teens, or lifestyle???? - 2/18/2005 10:18:07 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: His1girl
Is Gorean a real life - liveable - option????

Is it simply a set of books for horny teenagers, who cant grow up????

I don't think there is anyone that will tell you that the 26 Gor novels written by John Norman provide a realistic view of how life on earth can, or should, be lived. They are fiction. They take place on another planet. Slavery is not only legal, it's the completion of a lifelong (sometimes unkown) desire of just under half of the population of the planet.

Is there stuff of value in there? I think so...but that's just my opinion.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to His1girl)

Post #: 4

RE: Gorean, novel for teens, or lifestyle???? - 2/18/2005 11:27:59 AM

Voltare

Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: His1girl

i have a burning question for Goreans/somehwhat Goreans/diehard Goreans/nonbelievers out there....

Is Gorean a real life - liveable - option????

Is it simply a set of books for horny teenagers, who cant grow up????

Is it really somewhat liveable in todays society????

id just like to ask generally, "wtf?"......

thanks
girl

girl,

Some people believe it can be lived, though you really need to decide for yourself how much you would wish to incorporate of the lifestyle (legally.) There are even real life Gorean communities in different parts of the world.

Gor is based on the series of books written by John Norman - there are a couple other threads that you can take a look at that explain in greater detail.

Stephan

Gor - How do I know what should be taken to heart

http://www.collarme.com/forum/Gor%3A_How_do_I_know_what_should_be_taken_to_heart%3F/m_58155/tm.htm

Gor - What is it?

http://www.collarme.com/forum/Gor_%2D_What_is_it%3F/m_767/tm.htm

_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to His1girl)

Post #: 5

RE: Gorean, novel for teens, or lifestyle???? - 2/18/2005 2:10:14 PM

Darthbetta

Posts: 314
Joined: 12/16/2004
Status: offline

As I turn to my kajira and announce to her that we do not exist, and this is not a relationship, but a sham..... she laughs and then jumps up to go get me a refill of Paga, then returns to sit at my feet wondering what the fuck peoples issues are with Gor not being "liveable" with some minor tweeking to the basis on which the books are written.

_____________________________

Some of us have an inane knack for calling people on their Bullshit... I just choose to retort with bitter dry Sarcasm, and occasionaly it sinks in. Mostly, I just look like an ass.

(in reply to Voltare)

Post #: 6

RE: Gorean, novel for teens, or lifestyle???? - 2/19/2005 2:56:01 AM

His1girl

Posts: 3
Status: offline

didnt mean to offend, just asked a simple question....

i apologise to You and Your girl too...

humbly,
girl

(in reply to Darthbetta)

Post #: 7

RE: Gorean, novel for teens, or lifestyle???? - 2/19/2005 4:31:46 AM

ProtagonistLily

Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

As I turn to my kajira and announce to her that we do not exist, and this is not a relationship, but a sham..... she laughs and then jumps up to go get me a refill of Paga, then returns to sit at my feet wondering what the fuck peoples issues are with Gor not being "liveable" with some minor tweeking to the basis on which the books are written.

Note: my comments below assume that any given Gorean relationship is as SSC as any other D/s relationship.

You know, I'm sort of waiting for the Kinky Civil Rights Movement, when the Goreans start to demand equal rights, etc., get them and we actually stop arguing about this.

I've read a few of the Norman books, but I wouldn't consider myself Gorean by any stretch of the imagination. However, who really cares if other couples find value in it? Why is there this dividing line between the Paga drinkers and the Non-Paga drinkers? It just seems kind of silly to me.

Who does it hurt? Why do I care if someone wants to talk about themselves in the third person? What do I care if someone wants to dance for their master, and incorporate the rituals of a fictional world into their personal lives?

I think sometimes, though I mean no disrespect by this, that those who want to fervently argue against Gorean lifestyles don't get out much. I know people who are "Gorean" and when you hang out with them in the scene, it's really no big deal. The Gorean relationships tend, in my experience, to be fairly long lasting, and happy.

When we were kids, we used fictional models in our real lives and called it "Play". Cops and robbers, Pirates, superheros....and we didn't divide ourselves as kids because of it. It was ok, it was natural, and we weren't hurting anyone...it was what we did for fun.

Lots of adults, myself included, play RPG's. We get together with the other freaks once a week or so, and tramp through bizzare lands, let our actions be dictated by 12 sided dies, speak odd languages, cast spells and blow up locked boxes. We think of ourselves as another life form, and it's all fun until someone blows up the treasure. Imagine if at the next PTA meeting, someone made some nasty comments about us not being real Parents because we played geek games. From my perspective, it's the same thing here.

So, why can't adults feed the inner child and use Gor as their model without having this huge rift in what would seemingly be an area where you'd want people to be happy?

Not only do I always say, "If it's not fun, why bother?" I really try to live that as a code in my Kink life. If folks who model their interactions after Gor, and it's fun for them, who am I to make any judgement?

To me, all that matters is that people are happy and secure in what they are about.

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to Darthbetta)

Post #: 8

RE: Gorean, novel for teens, or lifestyle???? - 2/19/2005 6:40:57 AM

Malkinius

Posts: 1814
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline

Greetings....

quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily
Note: my comments below assume that any given Gorean relationship is as SSC as any other D/s relationship.

Actually....a Gorean Master/slave relationship is neither safe nor what most here would consider sane. It is consensual. It is usually very different from most BDSM relationships as it doesn't stop when the bedroom or dungeon door opens.

quote:

You know, I'm sort of waiting for the Kinky Civil Rights Movement, when the Goreans start to demand equal rights, etc., get them and we actually stop arguing about this.

Actually...I don't think many of us would want equal rights with BDSM. We don't care for a lot of things in the BDSM world/lifestyle. To be a "same" is to be inferrior in our philosophy.

quote:

When we were kids, we used fictional models in our real lives and called it "Play". Cops and robbers, Pirates, superheros....and we didn't divide ourselves as kids because of it. It was ok, it was natural, and we weren't hurting anyone...it was what we did for fun.

That is where we have one of our biggest problems. People who play at Gor and call themselves Gorean or other people that is all there is to being Gorean. I don't play at being Gorean. I live it. I don't have a lifestyle, I have a life. I don't know you well enough to know if you can say the same thing about what you do.

quote:

Lots of adults, myself included, play RPG's. We get together with the other freaks once a week or so, and tramp through bizzare lands, let our actions be dictated by 12 sided dies, speak odd languages, cast spells and blow up locked boxes. We think of ourselves as another life form, and it's all fun until someone blows up the treasure. Imagine if at the next PTA meeting, someone made some nasty comments about us not being real Parents because we played geek games. From my perspective, it's the same thing here.

From the players you have seen, you are about right. When it comes to RPG's, I know them as well or better than you do and have probably been playing them longer. Does the woodgrained box mean anything to you? I know the difference. I don't know if you do.

quote:

So, why can't adults feed the inner child and use Gor as their model without having this huge rift in what would seemingly be an area where you'd want people to be happy?

Not only do I always say, "If it's not fun, why bother?" I really try to live that as a code in my Kink life. If folks who model their interactions after Gor, and it's fun for them, who am I to make any judgement?

We are not feeding the inner child. The Gorean philosophies are for adults, not children. I don't mean adult as you usual do. I mean for people who can think and live in a mature fashion, not a thing to do with sex, kink, porn, or any of your play toys. Happiness is not what we are looking for. Gorean is not a hedonistic philosophy.

quote:

To me, all that matters is that people are happy and secure in what they are about.

Lily

Actually....many things are much more important than that. Living a life you can be proud of is much better.

Be well...

Malkinius

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

Post #: 9

RE: Gorean, novel for teens, or lifestyle???? - 2/19/2005 7:23:20 AM

mantis65

Posts: 456
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline

if its not about sex what is is it about?
i mean if the Gor lifestyle works on EVERY women on this planet why does it need to be Consensual at all? (Outside of the fact abduction and real slavery is a crime of course)
Gor will be one of those things i will never get.
For me sex and sadism/masochism is all intertwined i don’t see of the point of Gor in this respect.
Most of us read the novels because they were porn to us (and still are to me).
Slavery may not mean sex to me but it does include Sadism. i cant understand slavery with out the Domme / Dom enjoying the subs suffering as well as control.
mantis

< Message edited by mantis65 -- 2/19/2005 7:26:15 AM >

(in reply to Malkinius)

Post #: 10

RE: Gorean, novel for teens, or lifestyle???? - 2/19/2005 8:32:09 AM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

Tal Malkinius!

quote:

Actually....a Gorean Master/slave relationship is neither safe nor what most here would consider sane. It is consensual. It is usually very different from most BDSM relationships as it doesn't stop when the bedroom or dungeon door opens.

With the latter half of that I couldn't agree more. With the former half I'd have to take issue. I know where you get the "our way of life is dangerous" thing, but that's just one man's posturing that others have emulated over the years. With regards to safety, here are a couple of snippets from my recent life:

"Master, X would like me to visit". "You may not visit X alone, slave girl. I do not want you walking alone in the neighborhood where she lives. X may come to visit you, or if she really wants you to come there, she'll have to come pick you up and drop you off, so that you can walk into her place together". "yes, Master"

"Master, I'd like to go hang out with X tonight". "You may, but if you drink, you may not drive my car. If you drink, you'll have to make arrangements to stay with X, or She'll have to do the driving if she has not had anything to drink". "yes, Master"

Before she was owned my slave, as many women do, took risks with her own safety that I would find unacceptable risks to my property. I don't think this is unique to me. I would say that the Gorean girls that I've known over the years are by-in-large safer than women at large. The drive that a woman has to submit to a master, afterall, is usually at least partly her perception that she will be safer within the "circle of his steel" than she is by herself.

With respect to sanity, well, opinions are going to vary, to be sure, but I, as every Gorean I've known well over the years, find the way that we live to be the height of sanity, because it is "closer to our genes". We don't deny our natural drives and desires because they don't fit neatly into someone's very rational sounding argument about the way the world "ought to be".

So, I think that our way is very "safe, sane, and consentual". It just doesn't achieve those aims by applying the practices and principals that are generally held to be gospel by the BDSM community.

quote:

I mean for people who can think and live in a mature fashion, not a thing to do with sex, kink, porn, or any of your play toys. Happiness is not what we are looking for. Gorean is not a hedonistic philosophy.

Um... whoa!! When did you don white robes and shave your head? Happiness isn't what we're looking for? Since when? Goreans aren't ascetics, Malkinius. You've been listening to Bear for too long. He wasn't always that way, you know. It seems like the older he gets, the more bitter and austere he gets, and wants everyone else to be. Our way of life isn't grim. It's full of color, and laughter. It's about taking the full measure of life, not sitting around stone-faced and congratulating one another on our amazing self-restraint and morality.

It's true that what many folks think of as "kink" we just find to be the natural state of affairs, and yes, we generally have little use for porn because we don't subscribe to the denial and repression that make it attractive to others, but our way has nothing to do with sex?? Geezus. I'm 43, but don't bury me quite yet. Yes, it's true that much of our philosophy has nothing to do with sex, but to say that it has nothing to do with sex at all is a little over the top. What makes our way of life distinct has a lot to do with a different understanding of human sexuality and fulfillment.

I wish you well, Malkinius.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 2/19/2005 8:56:56 AM >

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to Malkinius)

Post #: 11

RE: Gorean, novel for teens, or lifestyle???? - 2/19/2005 8:52:25 AM

Gemeni

Posts: 255
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline

Sighs here we go once more.

Firstly, we really don't want,as Goreans, to be included under the "pansexual bdsm" umbrella. We find the slack ways of these people to be quite distasteful.

Secondly, we do this for the joy and stability it offers,not as an excercise in following some stuffy philosophy. We enjoy power, but this is merely a tool that offers us the techniques to manage our relationships in a productive manner for our fullfillment.

People fear the unknown and merely look to the more extreme examples shown in the book...get a clue people,those of us who do this real life have to respect the laws of the societies we live within.

I could point out how obsessive and abusive heavy sensation players can be too-but I respect your rights to do as you see fit,why can't you of kink show us a mutual respect?

(in reply to Leonidas)

Post #: 12

RE: Gorean, novel for teens, or lifestyle???? - 2/19/2005 3:26:49 PM

mantis65

Posts: 456
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline

ok Leonidas your post makes more sense its realistic.
some other posts were almost making Gor seem like a new religion that frowns on happiness or any pleasure at all for its slaves and that’s sort of disturbing to me.
it was reminding me of the caste system in India a bit.
its good to see that its still about human beings with human needs wanting this sort of lifestyle for themselves.
Its not my thing like i said before but its also not as scary as was i starting to think it was.
mantis

(in reply to Gemeni)

Post #: 13

RE: Gorean, novel for teens, or lifestyle???? - 2/19/2005 10:06:07 PM

Overlord218

Posts: 53
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline

The Gorean lifestyle tends to polarise the "scene". You either love it or you hate it IMHO. Personally, in the words of that ancient Chinese philosopher? Whatever floats yer boat.

Having said that though, the one thing that does concern me is the concept of ownership... As in when the kajira becomes His property, ALL her possessions do as well. In theory, if she owned a home and a car etc, all that becomes His. That concerns me greatly.

Last year, I happened to spend some time with a Gorean girl who'd just begged release. During the relationship, she'd borrowed a not inconsiderable sum of money in her name which then went to him. (His credit was shot apparently) When she left? To my knowlege, she's still paying that loan off!

Footnote here... she pushed me to "convert" to Gorean, rather than her converting to D/s. When that didn't happen, she went back to her ex Owner. Is that topping from the bottom or what? lol

(in reply to mantis65)

Post #: 14

RE: Gorean, novel for teens, or lifestyle???? - 2/20/2005 12:15:42 AM

MistressDREAD

Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Excuse My post in the Masters section.....

quote:

Actually....a Gorean Master/slave relationship is neither safe nor what most here would consider sane

I wholly disagree with this comment and find it totally untrue to My Living a Gorean Lifestyle for over 28 years now.

quote:

As in when the kajira becomes His property, ALL her possessions do as well.
Within Our Home Overlord218 if a slave came to Our Ownership the belongings owned were either given to family members befor their comming or put into safe keeping or storage till after the contract was fullfilled or the slave signed a lifetime commitment contract at which point the posessions became a part of the households and the slave became a posession that gained all the protection and needs of the home in cluding medical coverage and retirement investment. I would no more need a slave to take out a loan for money then I would need them to Top Me from the bottom and the Dominant whom needs such is not being true to Theirselfs and have no business taking on the responcibility of a posession. Its one thing for a slave to work and bring home a paycheck which a Dominant controls in a form of financial controlling and wholly another matter to take out a loan for a large amount of money to simply turn over to another for any reasons. JMPO~

< Message edited by MistressDREAD -- 2/21/2005 7:11:25 AM >

(in reply to Overlord218)

Post #: 15

RE: Gorean, novel for teens, or lifestyle???? - 2/20/2005 8:16:40 PM

Overlord218

Posts: 53
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline

slave signed a lifetime commitment contract at which point the posessions became a part of the households And therein (for me at least) lies the problem. In the realm of Gor, that's fine, but in the realm of realtime, if a slave begs release, is she then entitled to her possessions back? It could make for an interesting court battle at the very least.

I agree totally with Your comments on the Dominant shouldn't be even considering it, but all of a sudden, we're back in realtime... aren't we. In Gor, all Doms are honorable. In realtime though? Have you never met a Dom who had a gambling problem... or drugs/alcohol? That's what I'm trying to say.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

Post #: 16

RE: Gorean, novel for teens, or lifestyle???? - 2/20/2005 8:52:27 PM

Gemeni

Posts: 255
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline

And slaves can have the same kinds of problems,addictions and mental illnesses. Which is why no one should enter into a relationship like this hastily.

(in reply to Overlord218)

Post #: 17

RE: Gorean, novel for teens, or lifestyle???? - 2/21/2005 3:50:02 AM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I agree totally with Your comments on the Dominant shouldn't be even considering it, but all of a sudden, we're back in realtime... aren't we. In Gor, all Doms are honorable. In realtime though? Have you never met a Dom who had a gambling problem... or drugs/alcohol? That's what I'm trying to say.

Well, you see, that's the crux of it. The real focus of our way of life is freedom, and honor, and other aspects of character. So yes, if he's Gorean, and he's a free man, one would expect that he would conduct his affairs in an upstanding way. As I've said elsewhere, if he isn't possessed of Gorean values and character, he's not a Gorean man, what he might call himself notwithstanding. It takes more than wanting a slave. If he isn't, we believe that a Gorean slave submits to him at her own peril. We believe that dominance has nothing to do with owning a slave. It has to do with owning your life, and being a sovereign within your own domain. Only when one can honestly say that they've mastered this can they rightly master another.

As far as property goes, the notion that everything a slave has would go to her master upon her enslavement isn't correct. On the contrary, that would make it more like a companionship, where property is combined in a mutually beneficial union. A slave ought to come to her master naked; literally owning nothing. He should take the girl, and only the girl, because he wants the girl, not what she might have. This isn't hard to achieve. If she is a woman of property prior to submitting to the collar, anything that she might own can go to family, or be put into legal trust.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 2/21/2005 3:51:34 AM >

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to Overlord218)

Post #: 18

RE: Gorean, novel for teens, or lifestyle???? - 2/21/2005 7:20:55 AM

MistressDREAD

Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Excuse My posts here in the Masters section~

quote:

if a slave begs release,
is she then entitled to her possessions back

Gorean slaves are posessions and at the
point that a BDSM slave makes the commitment
of lifelong living with in the Gorean rhelm they
no longer have posessions to be entitled to.
That is the differance in Gor and M/s regardless
if online or real life.
Think of a person whom chooses to live in a
house as a roomate for ohh
lets say 10 years. Does that roomate at the end
of 10 years all of a suddent gain rights
over the posessions of your home? No of course
not, and this situation is much the same
if you desire to bring the mindset to real life Overlord
in My Opinion. The slave relinquishes all of their worldly
goods Family or to the Owner hence this becomes * gifts * which
in a court of law today dulely becomes the Owners posession
to do as They see fit with. JMPO.

quote:

literally owning nothing. He should take the girl, and only the girl, because he wants the girl, not what she might have. This isn't hard to achieve. If she is a woman of property prior to submitting to the collar, anything that she might own can go to family, or be put into legal trust.

I agree with this wholly Leon and have stated such in other posts except for One part and that is that it could be any Free Person of Gor and not just a Master of Gor and it could be any Gorean slave and not just a slave who happens to be a girl. JMPO.

< Message edited by MistressDREAD -- 2/21/2005 7:26:07 AM >

(in reply to Leonidas)

Post #: 19

RE: Gorean, novel for teens, or lifestyle???? - 2/21/2005 8:38:35 AM

Gemeni

Posts: 255
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline

I agree that a slave should cross the threshold naked,and pretty much earn the privilege of the use of anything from the Master,at his discretion.

As I posrted in another thread,I believe that D/s should be based on performance.

And as one works with a slave,her performance reflects on how long a Master is going to keep her.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

Post #: 20

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> Gorean, novel for lifestyle????

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.109