Jealousy and the M/s relationship (Full Version)

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ShiftedJewel -> Jealousy and the M/s relationship (2/17/2005 2:43:20 PM)

There simply is no room in a true D/s relationship for jealousy, there shouldn’t be in any relationship. As long as open communication exists, complete honesty, respect for each other and real trust in each other.

Jealousy or being jealous goes against so much of what we (as a group) believe in...

According to Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary…

Jealous:
1. Fearful or suspicious of being displaced by a rival in affection or favors.
2. Vindictive toward another because of supposed or actual rivalry.
3. Vigilant in guarding: to be jealous of a privilege.
4. Resulting or arising from jealousy: jealous fears.
5. Demanding exclusive worship and love. Jealous God

Synonyms according to Roget’s Thesaurus….

Jealous:
Possessive, envious, resentful, demanding, monopolizing, protective, watchful, covetous, begrudging, mistrustful, suspicious, skeptical, doubting, jaundiced, insecure, apprehensive, green-eyed*: see also envious 2, suspicious 1 – Ant. Trusting, confiding, forgiving.

Jealousy:
Syn:
Resentment, possessiveness, suspicion; see doubt, envy.

(expect that from a dictionary collector.... and yes, I know my spelling is atrocious most of the time)

So I have to ask… why is there so much jealousy out there? Why so much insecurity? To me that shows a serious lack of communication. And if there is a lack of communication, then the other cornerstones are in danger of not being in place either. That leads back to the question about how good is the relationship to begin with?

In the past I have noticed that not only is jealousy rampant among D/s relationship, it’s a domineering factor. So what happened to the Four Cornerstones... trust, honesty, respect and communication? Has the internet killed it? Is it a lack of training? Is it a lack of patience in this current "instant gratification" world?.

A lot of people (submissives) say they aren’t necessarily “jealous”, they just don’t want to share their Dom/me……. So what do we call that? And Dom/mes say the same thing, only they call it possessive or protective. Isn’t that the same thing? According to Roget?

I’ve been in the lifestyle for many years and will openly admit that the only time I felt what might be considered jealousy was when I found out that my “one” had been seeing someone behind my back. But in reality that would be considered a legitimate reason, because after all, the trust was broken, the communication was not there and the respect was trampled on. Needless to say, it was over at that moment. How can you submit, or expect someone to submit to you if you cannot trust them or they cannot trust you? How is that honest or respectful?

This is one issue in a relationship that needs immediate attention; it is the ultimate warning sign, red flag, bad omen, distress signal, or notification that something is not right in your relationship.

There has to be rules for everyone involved, poly or not. There has to be discipline and restraint, emotional and physical bonds, as well as trust in each other. There has to be understanding of what each emotion causes not only in ones own mind, but in the partners as well. We all have to understand that to be jealous of the other is, in an unspoken way, saying that you don’t trust them, that you doubt their commitment to the relationship, that in some way they have caused you to be insecure. This is very serious in a D/s relationship where total trust is not just a good idea, it’s a necessity! How can you in any way submit, or accept the submission of another without it?

Ok, rant over and hopefully my point was made as well, ty.

Jewel



mistoferin -> RE: Jealousy and the M/s relationship (2/17/2005 2:51:48 PM)

quote:

So I have to ask… why is there so much jealousy out there? Why so much insecurity?


You hit it right on the head with this. Jealousy is a totally wasteful emotion born out of insecurity. It is not necessarily that they are insecure about their relationship or that they feel that their position in that relationship is being threatened. It is more often a product of their insecurities about their own value. This is not something that can be communicated away (at least not without long term work and commitment). It is something that the individual who finds that they are jealous in nature must work out on an internal level to get to the root cause of their insecurity.

It is a hard emotion for me to understand as jealousy plays no role in my life, but I have had many girlfriends that have had serious issues with it and I know that it can be extremely devastating.



FangsNfeet -> RE: Jealousy and the M/s relationship (2/17/2005 3:18:27 PM)

I'm not the jealous type. I'm just a guy who makes sure that everyone in a room knows that my sub is mine and is not here for anyones elses fun. They may look, shake hands, and in some cases hug, but that's it.

It never hurts to ask but after I say "NO!" the first time, there better not be a second time. [:@]



[image]local://upfiles/68772/6546DE77E4A045A2B76D78264F2E15E0.jpg[/image]



wyngedbyste -> RE: Jealousy and the M/s relationship (2/17/2005 4:42:05 PM)

That's how it is in my relationship with my sub. He's insecure and that makes him jealous. He knows it. We've talked about it for years. I've sent him to therapy. He says he knows jealousy is destructive and he wants to not feel it. He just can't seem to get over it. And, unfortunately, his jealousy is eroding our previously solid relationship. And he knows that, too.

It's a no-win situation. Sometimes communication, honesty and trust just aren't enough.

Byste



songbird26 -> RE: Jealousy and the M/s relationship (2/17/2005 5:00:20 PM)

I think you're right about the communications issue being at the root of the problem. Some people are only happy in monogamous relationships, some seek polyamory, some play the field wide and far. The trick is, I think, to be entirely up-front in what you're looking for in a partner. If you know that sharing your dominant or submissive with others will cause you pain, jealousy, insecurity, or any other negative emotion, then make that very clear right up front, and do not become involved with someone who doesn't share your viewpoint on the matter. If you know that it will be okay if your dominant or submissive plays with others, but remains sexually monogamous, then that's something else to be clear about. If you want to be free to cat around at will, then that, too, must be crystal clear at the outset!

I think there's a sense that to be submissive is to simply declare that "Master may do whatever he wants!" Which is true, to a point, but it's the submissive's responsibility to choose that master or mistress carefully and well, so that the relationship is an honest and non-destructive one for both parties. Just as it is the dominant's responsibility to be ruthlessly honest with a submissive in the early stages, so that there is no doubt in the submissive's mind of what the relationship's parameters and boundaries will be. A truly responsible and mature dominant would not want a miserable, jealous, insecure submissive anyway. That negates the whole point of mutual growth, fullfillment and care that should be the bedrock of any relationship.

In other words...TALK. BEFORE the relationship begins. Make sure there are no secrets under the bed or hiding in the panty drawer. And should mistakes occur--and they will, we're all human--then talk some more. It's the only way. Even the most practiced dominant or intuitive submissive isn't a mind reader!



ScooterTrash -> RE: Jealousy and the M/s relationship (2/17/2005 6:56:01 PM)

I also agree that communication is the key element here. If there are no secrets and no one is stepping out of the agreed apon rules, there is no cause for any jealousy. And the communication does not stop there, it has to be a constant ongoing thing all the way around. I am under the firm belief that of you and your sub, slave, mate, whatever..keep in tune with each other that not only will there be no jeolousy, there will also never be any reason for heated discussions over anything. In previous lives (vanilla) I did not not have this communication and generally emotions stayed bottled up until they exploded. Now that I am in a sharing and open communication "lifestyle" relationship, there are no harsh words ever spoken nor is there ever a tinge of jeolousy.



mistoferin -> RE: Jealousy and the M/s relationship (2/17/2005 7:15:16 PM)

quote:

It's not the destination..it's the journey


Love your signature and your profile was a great read too. Welcome to the boards.



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Jealousy and the M/s relationship (2/17/2005 7:24:13 PM)

This was something I posted in my jouirnal back in January. Just some background info- I am poly. My main relationships right now consist of my Owner who lives near me, a boyfriend who I switch with, a Boston partner and a local sub I date.

A response to the question: What do you do about jealousy in relationships (poly specific)?

It depends on how much experience everyone has, what the situation is, and what your options are. Have you read the Ethical Slut? That can be an immense help atp utting a lot of ideas together in workable ways.Obviously starting out, TALK TALK TALK. There is NO TOLERANCE for hiding things, pushing things away, and lying. If it doesn't catch up to you today, it WILL catch up to you in a month.

Normally in Ds poly you have two sides- the established relationship and the newcomer. The newcomer is happy, but worried. She has a lot of history and establishment she's coming into. She wants to feel welcomed, but doesn't want to get lost or ganged up on.The established relationship wants to try a new mix, wants to be happy with new people, but is going to have to relearn how to work while maintaining the solidarity that you had before. This isn't just adding a side of fries to your meal, it's adding a new person to your life. There might also be pressure from other "friends" that this new person is obviously just trying to break you up.This boils down to being totally honest.

What type of poly do you want, a family? friend? lover? will you both be able to have independent relationships? What will you do when someone goes out of town? what about sex? What needs to be kept "special"?Some of these answers you should have a fairly good grasp of before you go out looking and others will simply come in time and experience. Your answers might also change over time.What does this have to do with jealousy? 70-80% of all jealousy comes from not knowing and not being secure in the relationship you have. This is eliminated by clear communication, clear intent and clear expectations.

Next- EXPECT jealousy. EXPECT that your strong world will sometimes fall apart and you will feel lonely, rejected and as if something else is taking it away from you. Once you realize that it's GOING to happen, you can stop wasting time geeling guilty about experiencing it. Communicate it of course, but remember that (given that everyone is being a mature adult) everyone is working towards a fulfilling relationship for everyone.

Sort out priorities. Poly relationships are ALL about deciding what is priority, when and how. The better your sort them out, the more you can understand how everyone else has to sort them out, but the better you can deal with an immediate situation. Take the time to figure out your jealousy at the moment, and then figure how it fits into the long term picture- tomorrow? next week? a year? Sometimes it's best to just let it go. Sometimes its best to talk it out (you talk a LOT in the beginning and then you keep talking a LOT throughout).

Remember that everyone in their own way is dealing with the same issues you are- trying to work together. We all have lives, we all have our sensitivies, our losses, our responses, our illusions, our condemnation, our celebrations and more. Fitting them together into a whole is never smooth. But, if it is truly how everyone will feel fulfilled, and if it is a good balance between everyone, it can work, and work very happily.



mistoferin -> RE: Jealousy and the M/s relationship (2/17/2005 7:30:40 PM)

quote:

The trick is, I think, to be entirely up-front in what you're looking for in a partner. If you know that sharing your dominant or submissive with others will cause you pain, jealousy, insecurity, or any other negative emotion, then make that very clear right up front, and do not become involved with someone who doesn't share your viewpoint on the matter. If you know that it will be okay if your dominant or submissive plays with others, but remains sexually monogamous, then that's something else to be clear about. If you want to be free to cat around at will, then that, too, must be crystal clear at the outset!


Very well put. I have often seen a submissive who meets a Dominant, two weeks later she is wearing his collar, then 3 months down the road he brings up a need to have a second sub. Now you have emotional bedlam.

These are issues that need to be addressed and made very clear right up front. Possibly the solution would be taking a bit more time to go over all of the possibilities in the beginning, before commitment, before your heart is on the line. Of course this does not negate the need for ongoing communication throughout the relationship.



BeachMystress -> RE: Jealousy and the M/s relationship (2/17/2005 8:15:43 PM)


While it is easy to say jealousy shouldn't exist, it is a hard wired emotion. Mother Nature installed it early in our evolution. It served the purpose of keeping the mate centered on their mate so that the family unit had a better chance of survival.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
A lot of people (submissives) say they aren’t necessarily “jealous”, they just don’t want to share their Dom/me……. So what do we call that? And Dom/mes say the same thing, only they call it possessive or protective. Isn’t that the same thing? According to Roget?

And what exactly is wrong with not wanting to share? What is mine, IS MINE. Would you expect me to let you drive my car? HELL NO. Do you think I'm jealous of my car? Oh sheesh!

I do not care what you call it. My sub is my mate, is my boyfriend, is my lover, and I am NOT sharing. I don't feel this makes me jealous. It makes me monogamous. I find it odd that you are implying there is something wrong with two people wishing an exclusive relationship.



BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Jealousy and the M/s relationship (2/17/2005 8:25:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
There simply is no room in a true D/s relationship for jealousy, there shouldn’t be in any relationship. As long as open communication exists, complete honesty, respect for each other and real trust in each other.

So I have to ask… why is there so much jealousy out there? Why so much insecurity? To me that shows a serious lack of communication.

A lot of people (submissives) say they aren’t necessarily “jealous”, they just don’t want to share their Dom/me……. So what do we call that? And Dom/mes say the same thing, only they call it possessive or protective.

I’ve been in the lifestyle for many years and will openly admit that the only time I felt what might be considered jealousy was when I found out that my “one” had been seeing someone behind my back. But in reality that would be considered a legitimate reason, because after all, the trust was broken, the communication was not there and the respect was trampled on. Needless to say, it was over at that moment. How can you submit, or expect someone to submit to you if you cannot trust them or they cannot trust you? How is that honest or respectful?

This is very serious in a D/s relationship where total trust is not just a good idea, it’s a necessity!
Jewel

Hello There Jewel, I loved reading your post...
I'm goint to sort of take the devil's advocate stance for a moment, just so I can maybe get a different perspective since I am fairly new to all of this...
I am one of the least jealous people in the world, and have never had relationships fall apart because of my jealousy, but I have felt it (in the past)... I also agree with BeachMystress that it's hardwired into us, though we may express it less and less I belive as we mature.

Your post, correct me if I am wrong, suggests that people in BDSM (M/s,D/s) should be higher up on the self actualization scale, be comfortable enough with self to be honest about who they are and what they stand for, and therefore be honest about their wants/needs/desires...

...That would be wonderful, if it were the reality... I haven't done any research, but my experience thus far tells me A Lot of people in this lifestyle are into kink, but not comfortable with their lives/choices, and therefore lie and cheat to satisfy their kink, without factoring in the potential damage they can do to the people with whom they become involved while seeking that... Just read the threads on "Disappearing Dom/mes", "No show subs", I'm married, and my wife doesn't know this but I want to explore this, HNGs, "I love Him...I Hate him, Wannabe subs/doms, etc... I've chat and emailed with a huge number of people trying to put one over on me; have also dated 1 or 2 of them since entering this... I'm no authority on anything here, but I think there is potentially more dishonesty because so many people are underground about this lifestyle, and use that excuse to have their cake and... I don't mean the poly folks; I say if it works for you, and all parties involved are aware and deal well, who am I to judge.

I agree that if there is mutual honesty/respect and open communication, jealousy should rarely if ever enter the picture, but from what I've noticed/lived and read, I'm not so sure those of us in this lifestyle are any higher up the food chain compared to Vanilla folk when it comes to jealousy. M



Bwana55419 -> RE: Jealousy and the M/s relationship (2/17/2005 8:34:33 PM)

I think Songbird26 summed up most of my views on this, but since I enjoy posting so I can hear my finger rattling on the keyboard I should add something to this.

I see nothing wrong with jealousy. Granted I hate it, and it drives me nuts when I have to deal with it, but it can happen to anyone. I have been jealous once, I suppose it didn’t help that the relationship sucked beyond belief. People also change; they may think that they will be fine with a certain set of circumstances only to find that they are not.

There may be a problem in the relationship that causes this, or it could just be something in the person’s character.

I had more, but I was boring myself here.



songbird26 -> RE: Jealousy and the M/s relationship (2/17/2005 9:27:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Very well put. I have often seen a submissive who meets a Dominant, two weeks later she is wearing his collar, then 3 months down the road he brings up a need to have a second sub.



Call me crazy, but the moment I see anyone talking about 'collars' a matter of weeks into a relationship, I immediately flash back to high school. "Will you wear my ring and go steady with me?" It's just so...it's like getting married in Vegas, or something. A few make it, sure, but the vast majority are an example of what NOT to do and a cheapening of what I consider a sacred vow. Not that I consider collaring a sacred vow. But you get what I mean. :)

Definitely, the open and honest communication is essential. All that emotional trauma could have been avoided by the dominant just saying "you know, I'm going to be looking for other submissives," and the submissive saying, "in that case, no thanks!"

*sigh*



ShiftedJewel -> RE: Jealousy and the M/s relationship (2/18/2005 3:38:12 AM)

It was not my intention to imply that everyone should be in an open relationship, and I apologize if it was taken that way. What I am trying to say is that in any relationship, vanilla or otherwise, if one or both people suffer from jealousy there is an underlying problem. Should me and mine decide tomorrow that we no longer wanted a poly household it would be based on the fact that it's something we no longer feel we, as a couple, enjoy. Jealousy wouldn't be a factor. I've seen so many couples, and I don't mean to imply it's only among D/s relationships because I know better, that's the only example I have as that's the only groups I really hang around with alot, I've seen a lot of Dominants that openly admit that they won't even so much as talk in an open chatroom to a submissive of the opposite gender because their submissive will throw a fit over it. The same thing holds true with submissives that state that they are allowed to talk only to other submissives because their Master/Mistress doesn't allow them to talk to other Dominants. I see that as a problem with insecurities with each other or themselves. It's one thing to be exclusive to each other, that's a wonderful thing, but it's a totally different animal when one is so jealous, possessive, insecure or whatever you choose to call it that the interaction with other people is affected and or limited.

Granted jealousy maybe "hard wired" in the human psyche, but that doesn't make it right or acceptable in a lot of situations. At one time women were "hard wired" to believe that we were second class citizens, and it was accepted by society as correct behavior to treat us as such, but that didn't make that right either. What I am saying is that jealousy is something that everyone should strive to eradicate from their relationships, it's an emotional reaction that does absolutely no good at all.

Hopefully I've clarified some here, it's early and for all I know I'm just babbling...lol

Jewel



ShiftedJewel -> RE: Jealousy and the M/s relationship (2/18/2005 3:45:46 AM)

Once again, I didn't mean to imply that we, as lifestylers, are any "higher up the food chain compared to Vanilla folk", and thank you for pointing that out.

I honestly think maybe we are, in a round about way, more susceptible to it because of some of the reasons you have stated. One of my personal favorites is the man married to the 'nilla wife that knows nothing of his kinks or his online life that gets jealous of his "online only collared" submissive's interaction with other dominants. Makes no sense to me at all.

Jewel



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