RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (Full Version)

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andreaC -> RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (12/13/2006 1:03:48 AM)

From the beginning, Master and i were totally open and talked about everything, our dark desires and wishes.  I dont think our relationship would have worked if i would have kept some things from him.  We talked on a daily basis and at times i had difficulty talking about some issues, but Master always managed to help me say what i had to say.

Today, I am like an open book for Master [:)]



eyesopened -> RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (12/13/2006 2:52:11 AM)

In my last relationship my Dom liked to talk...a LOT and it was a game where He would ask, during service, "Would you.....?" and the reply was always to be "i'd love to....."  It was a game. He explained to me it was just a game.   One day he brought a third into the relationship (we had discussed previously that while not a monogomous relationship, i would not serve with another sub) and He threw in my face "you said you'd LOVE to...."

That was the end of the relationship.



Voltare -> RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (12/13/2006 3:56:17 AM)

Thank you, eyes opened.  That's the perfect example of what I was trying to describe as 'bad.'



Padriag -> RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (12/13/2006 6:57:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

So, are there things you choose not to be so open about early on, in order to gain the upper hand, so to speak? 

I do hold some things in reserve, keeping my wishes vague and undefined when I am getting to know a submissive.  In the early stages I am more interested in knowing what her boundaries truly are, what her core values are, how far she is not only willing to go but wants to go on her own.  Once I feel that is established, then I reveal my own desires.  The reason for this is a simple one.  It has been my experience that submissives are often so eager to please they will agree to things they later regret.  By first establishing what they desire on their own, what their core values are, what their true boundaries are I can then better estimate how good a match we might be and possibly lay the foundation for a healthier relationship.



flip14 -> RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (12/13/2006 10:34:39 AM)

I tell everyone that I am in a relationship with be it vanilla or DS that communication is the most critical part.  That open, honesty, and forthright communication is what i expect and that I will reciprocate.  If I feel that my partner is holding back there desires and fears, how can I be confident of my ablity to Dominate them without emotional damage. 

In the begining of a Ds relationship I ask the submissive to write down what they want out of the relationship what they DO NOT want.  And a list of activites that they enjoy and what they do not.  I write out the same and then we exchange them.  This opens up alot of communication and I think removes some of the fear of "well if he does not enjoy this then I will not say I do" or feeling pressured to like what the Dom likes. 

Of course this does not cover all play.  It gives me a basis from which to start and the foundation of a communication system. 

That is just my way however and everyone has there own method that hopefully works for them.



Devilslilsister -> RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (12/13/2006 7:19:34 PM)

i'm agree more along the lines with Padriag here.  My Dom kept himself vague, while i suppose he explored me.  Though it would of been nice for him to say "i'm a sadist" when i met him so i could run scared.  <grinz>  but i suppose i am glad he didnt.  I think with me being newer he didnt want to fighten me off in the begining.  He didnt take me to look long term at where he wanted me to end up.  He still doesnt.  He watches me, guides me, and steers me back on track when i fall off.  i'm sure he had a "plan" for where he wants me to be, yet i wouldnt know.  That is for him to know and me to not worry about. 

as far as "mind games" - i'm sure he does.  I expect he'll do everything he says when he's ready and luckily for me - he doesnt feel its time yet for most of it.



LadyHugs -> RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (12/13/2006 9:22:36 PM)

Dear BRNaughtyAngel, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
Someone who has nothing to hide, hides in the sunshine and not in the shadows.
 
I do agree, that there needs to be discrete boundaries until the trust is established to both people's satisfaction.  That takes a lot of communication and that communication, an individual like me can extract information that will proove valuable indeed.
 
Since I hate surprises, I don't like surprising a slave.  If I do, it will be with a surprise gift, token, scene or something that is not going to shake the core of foundation trust, communication and vunerability.
Both need to be vunerable to each other, especially in an intimate relationship.  And, to clarify what is an intimate relationship/slave is a personal slave who will see me in my nudity, as well as without make up, when I'm sick and coughing up hair balls (from the cat o nine whips-winks/teases); sees me at my worst as well as my best.
 
Those who do not share the personal/intimate role as slave with me, will not enjoy the same levels of trust, communication and or vunerability.  For such slaves who are on their journey into becoming a personal slave to me; I just say--"Prepare for the unexpected."
For, I have a healthy creative mind and toy bag.
 
Respectfully submitted with a bit of wit,
Lady Hugs



LaTigresse -> RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (12/14/2006 9:06:40 AM)

My answer would be a combination of LadyHugs and Padriag.

I am always very open about myself, my life, what sort of relationship I would like, my core morals and values, vanilla interests and so forth. I do not give a list of kink interests but more so the absolutely nots.

The reason being, I want to know I will be compatible with the person 24/7.
Example: Wether or not the person is allergic to dogs is far more important than if they will never (insert kink topic).
Obviously if someone has an unusual interest in said dogs, they are going to be put on ignore so fast their head will spin. Hense the list of absolutely nots.
As far as going into detail about the miriad of kink interests outside the "hell no"s, I don't find it necessary, nor do I want to go there until later on. To me that is just wank material and gets in the way of getting to know the person. After I gain a genuine interest and real time together is spent, we will begin to discuss that in detail.

At that point, I want to hear what they have to say. Listen to their fears, their past experience, what interests them. What boundaries they want to push and those that because of their specific life experiences are too much. Then its time for me to drag out my interests and fit the pieces of the puzzle together.



Padriag -> RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (12/15/2006 4:55:20 AM)

Couple of other points I thought ought to be elaborated on after reading over some of the other responses.

While I don't think a dominant should "spill the beans" about everything all in one rush at the beginning, neither do I think they should be dishonest.  I believe its very important, that while I may not answer some questions, I don't lie about anything.  That is, I may not explain clearly what all of my desires, interests, or goals are in the first letter, in the first week or even the first month of talking with someone.  I may leave some questions unanswered or some points undefined, but I never lie about any of those things.  If there is something that I know I have an interest in, but don't wish to clarify, I instead focus on the submissive's feelings about it and once they have explored the topics and sorted out how they feel, then I reveal my own interests.  The point here is two fold.  One is, as I said before to get to their core values and how they really feel so that I can better determine whether we would be a good match.  The second reason leads to my second point...

My second point is something I learned from a submissive.  In the past I did tend to be very direct and open about everything.  I could literally outline, clearly and articulately, all my expectations and desires right from the first.  I thought it was a good idea, and seemed like one in theory.  What I was actually doing was overwhelming many submissives with too much information at once.  As one submissive put it, "there was no dance with me."  What she meant by that word dance, was the "dance" of getting to know me, discovering me over time.  That process, I learned, serves an important purpose with most submissives, it gives them time to learn about and adjust to the desires of a dominant without overwhelming them.  Go too fast and you overwhelm them and frighten them off (as I sometimes did in the past).

There is a reason why "vanillas" spend so much time dating before an engagement.  It serves purpose that has apparently been overlook in the BDSM community, which tends to "go for broke" and have an "all or nothing" attitude when it comes to finding a partner, often referred to as "sub frenzy" or "master frenzy", and could probably be summed up more simply as inexperience and impatience.



Altina -> RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (12/15/2006 6:54:09 AM)

quote:

There is a reason why "vanillas" spend so much time dating before an engagement.  It serves purpose that has apparently been overlook in the BDSM community, which tends to "go for broke" and have an "all or nothing" attitude when it comes to finding a partner, often referred to as "sub frenzy" or "master frenzy", and could probably be summed up more simply as inexperience and impatience.


Very nicely stated.



SpinnerofTales -> RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (12/15/2006 6:56:34 AM)

Well said...Let's face it folks....in the D/s community, there is so much fast hookup and rush to comittment that lesbians are saying "what the hell is their hurry?"



LaTigresse -> RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (12/15/2006 7:15:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

Well said...Let's face it folks....in the D/s community, there is so much fast hookup and rush to comittment that lesbians are saying "what the hell is their hurry?"



OMG, that is some funny shit!! And true!



BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (12/15/2006 6:14:12 PM)

Thank you Padriag and everyone else for the responses.  I can see now that withholding certain things may be better in the beginning, and can understand those who choose not to do this as well.

Even though my original post was a curiosity based on other posts, it dawned on me that my Master has been honest with me, but also very conservative about sharing too much. *Generality warning* I wonder if "maybe" some of that isn't gender based?  Are men less open about sharing feelings and opening up too much, especially too soon...., whereas women may be more willing to talk about their feelings, wants, needs, desires, etc even in the beginning?  I dunno, but this thread has definitely given me some food for thought!

Thank you all again! [:)]



ownedgirlie -> RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (12/15/2006 7:09:22 PM)

When I was in 3rd grade learning my multiplication tables, I would have been completely overwhelmed and scared away if the teacher said "And just think, kiddies, in 10 years you'll be learning Calculous!  Let me just give you a little example of what calculous is..."

Incremental learning, I say.  Crawl before walk.  The things I now want and need to do for my Master are things I would not have fathomed as possibilities two years ago.  Had he presented me then with this stuff, I'd have been screaming for the hills.  But understanding my mind, he could foresee this future better than I ever good.  He saw the big picture and I saw the tip of my nose.  Because of this, I do believe that holding back can be quite appropriate.  Motivation and intent play a huge part in determining the difference between incremental exposure and something a little less ethical.



LadyHugs -> RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (12/15/2006 8:40:24 PM)

Dear ownedgirlie, BRNaughtyAngel, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I have to agree with ownedgirlie, as with some Dominants they have so much mileage, experiences, connections and such it is like that elementary math and higher learning in the future like Calculous.
 
In my mind's eyes I see I am such a Dominant.  I have been around the block a few times more than most, that there is a 'cow path' groved into it. [Chuckles]  Some who approach me, just based on my profile say they quit before they even start because I am far to advanced for them.  I also am very intense and condense a lot of information in a little block of time.  My handouts for the last post I held, is 47 pages and just addressing spanking, paddling and caning; just as an example.
But, little do people know I have even more information and knowledge in my bank; so I do trickle out information as I can overwhelm individuals that I mentor, teach and or train.
 
BRNaughtyAngel, you asked outloud wondering if it might be a gender thing where men might withhold their needs, desires, wants and or feelings and women are more expressive in that regard.
 
In my mind's eyes, I feel that it is not specific gender traits of withholding needs, desires, wants and feelings.  I lean toward the belief, that it depends on a person's past dealings as it comes to a relationship and trust.  It also depends on a person's personality.  Some are out-going and some aren't.  I also believe that it also depends on individual Arch-types.  Arch-types which people identify with that is much like a recipe or the threads that create the cloth of someone's personality and who they have become.  For an example, one of my Arch-Types is Educator/Teacher.  I'm very passionate about sharing my experiences, giving out knowledge and skills; so I don't hold it and not share.  I have other Arch-Types but, what is important is identifying what Arch-Types you are attracted to and what you identify with.
 
I will also mention, what my mind's eyes I see; that those who seek their first; be it Master, Mistress, Dominant, slave and or submissive will go for broke and massive dump and overload the prospective partner.  After the first, the novelty is no longer there and, speaking only from my personal experiences, observations and knowledge; I tend to take my time more, even lengthy periods of time to select a potential slave.  Perhaps, it is because I no longer have in my mind's eyes to be validated by ownership of a slave and or validated by being who I am.  I am a Master at what I do and what I am and, it is not just because of what I believe it to be; it is also confirmed by my peers that may be in many levels and in many lands.  I find my mastery is increasingly inward and no need to 'show off' to the peanut gallery.
So, when there is a prospective before me, I dole out slowly as to have something more to give every time a slave prospect approaches.  I'll have years to dole out from the well I tap into as to share and give of myself to others, what I've learned in my 'continued' journey.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs



Voltare -> RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (12/15/2006 9:47:36 PM)

Another simple aspect that came to me is that Doms simply don't know exactly what they -want- to do, to begin with.  I know in my case, I don't start rattling off my interests and desires until I have an idea of the person I'm talking to.  I enjoy sadism, but there are certain types of women I simply wouldn't enjoy or feel comfortable being sadistic with.  I like face slapping, but I wouldn't bring it up if the girl had been brutally abused in a past relationship, and had face slapping as a hard limit.  Basically, what I enjoy doing most depends greatly on what I think my sub will enjoy the most.  I love intricate bondage, but if the girl's yawning and nodding off while I do it, I'd end up hating it.  There has to be some sort of mutual interest (or at least reaction) in order for an exchange to take place.



DiurnalVampire -> RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (12/15/2006 9:58:03 PM)

Jumping in late in the opinion track, I dont have a cookie cutter list of things I fit every submissive into. ITs just a setup for disaster somewhere down the line.  I figure out what I wil enjoy and what I will experiment with as I get to know someone.  I love talking to a sub on the phone and asking them what they want to try, and then embellishing their ideas. There are things that I am getting into with Angel that I have had interest in but never thought I would actually pursue with a willing partner, and so I have never really tried them. Even though I am the Dominant party, and my word goes, so to speak, if we arent both enjoying something, I am not going to get much out of it.
Do I mess with his head, yes.  However, it isnt by trying to convince him that there is something he would never do that I might expect of him at some point.  Ratehr, I ahve taken a fantasy I know he has had before and I have embellished it greatly.  The version I have is far more extreme than he had ever imagined, and he gets very into the posibility that I will make this fantasy his eventual reality. Wether or not I plan on being that extreme in our future, I am still not sure. However, as far as he knows, these are plans I have... not theories.
AS for manpulation, only in as far as I know how to push his buttons.  I listen well, especially when we are out of scenes and ust discusing our interests.  I know how to get what I want by turning his fantasies into my tools. Luckily, we share a great deal of common interests when it comes to that arena. Especially now, with my getting ready to move to within 15 minutes of him, everything we discuss I tell him is a promise, not a fantasy. I dont know if thats quite manipulation, but I can get the reactions I want on the phone whenever I want them with just that line, so I use it whenever I want to toss him into subspace.

DV
DV 



Padriag -> RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (12/16/2006 7:02:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

Thank you Padriag

You're welcome [:)] 


quote:

*Generality warning* I wonder if "maybe" some of that isn't gender based?  Are men less open about sharing feelings and opening up too much, especially too soon...., whereas women may be more willing to talk about their feelings, wants, needs, desires, etc even in the beginning?  I dunno, but this thread has definitely given me some food for thought!

I wouldn't say so.  I have found that with me personally, as a dominant, I often know my feelings, desires, etc. and am able to express them more easily than most submissives I have known; who conversely seem to not always know quite what they want, often have trouble expressing it, etc.  But that isn't always the case.  I have known some submissives that were very articulate about what they want and need.  I've also known some dominants who had trouble with it.  So I don't think is universally either a gender thing, or a dominant or submissive thing.

However, that said, I think dominants (regardless of gender) should strive towards knowing exactly what they want and need, why they want or need it, being able to express it (and at an appropriate pace), etc.  I also think that is true for submissives, but I think it is extra important for dominants who generally should be taking the lead and directing the pace.

Other than that, I say just enjoy getting to know each other at a pace that seems comfortable.

Edited for the darn typos!



SirDominic -> RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (12/16/2006 8:14:20 AM)

BRNaughtyAngel,
As you can see, there are many styles and types of relationships between Doms and subs. I personally don't think I'm doing my job, unless my sub is obsessing about what is coming next. lol. But I don't think that is incompatible with being open and honest about who I am and who she is; as a matter of fact I think it is critical to a trusting relationship.

There is no reason you can't have both. Personally I always have a potential new sub fill out a kink list telling me what they love, what they are unsure of, what they don't want to do. I have them date and sign it. This gives me a good solid understanding of where the relationship will be beginning. By the way, it also protects me if someone cries fowl. As long as I abide by that list, I have proof that I did nothing they did not agree to.

From what you have read here, some love the mind fuck, some hate it. Each Dom/sub relationship is going to be unique; as long as the two of you are comfortable with your arrangement, you're good. At the very least, though, there should always be, if nothing else, a hard limits list. No submissive should ever be subjected to something they don't want to do. That is not to say your Dom can't discuss with you trying to expand your limits, but that should only go forward with your approval, and with the understanding you can stop if you have reached your limit.

Sir Dominic



Bosn -> RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) (12/17/2006 3:50:02 PM)

I have not read any of the answers to this question because I'm sure there are as many different answers as there are members.
However, in this age of the internet and relatively inexpensive long distance telephone service, I believe much can be covered without ever having to actually physically meet.
I take the time to really get to know a potential slave and I share what is pertinent about myself. How do I determine what is "pertinent"? Obviously, I would expect the slave to ask questions but I would also give information I would expect them to check out for themselves. I don't waste my time with slaves who aren't smart enough to know how to protect themselves.
As for the "details" of past slaves, they are only disclosed as necessary. But mind-fuck games are played by insecure people who should not be considered Masters and, if played by a slave, the slave should be soundly punished or given the choice to be publicly released and disgraced.
The collar should never be given until both a completely certain who they are dealing with. And, just an aside, a Master would not likely collar a subbie since (in my experience) a Master is 24/7 and a subbie is situational.
Bosn



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