Science experiment/Guinea pig/Crash test dummy

Science experiment/Guinea pig/Crash test dummy (Full Version)

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petdave -> Science experiment/Guinea pig/Crash test dummy (12/13/2006 6:24:49 AM)
Conventional wisdom in the BDSM world dictates that a Top should always test any implement to be used on their bottom on Herself/Himself first (when practical). As i understand it, "Old Guard" customs went a step further and dictated that anyone in the scene needed to start as a bottom before being accepted as a Top. My question to other submissives/bottoms/masochists- do you expect this? Do you even care? My take on it is that as long as both parties have the common sense to have some idea of what an implement will do, the bottom trusts the Top to respect their limits, and the Top trusts the bottom to communicate, this is really a non-issue, and i expect that those prerequisites should be a given in almost any consensual scening. My wife and i were discussing this at a BDSM "toy fair" the other day- the idea that, by some reckoning, she would be a "bad Domme!" for not doing so; however, since she has almost no tolerance for pain and i'm a masochist, if she followed "the rules" we'd never buy anything! (and that's too terrible to even think about!) So, is this something you expect? Or is it all a bunch of hooey? Cheers, ...dave

littleone35 -> RE: Science experiment/Guinea pig/Crash test dummy (12/13/2006 6:28:33 AM)
I don't care i coul never see my Master as a submisive just the though of it make me laugh. I trust him to know what he is doing , however He is not much in to pain play so i am not worried he will hurt me. Matt's littleone

domainslave1 -> RE: Science experiment/Guinea pig/Crash test dummy (12/13/2006 7:01:38 AM)
i guess trust is everythng, if You have a top that is prudent and has a desent level of common sence then there should never be an issue of weathre or not a top should have been a bottom common sence also tells us what an impliment will do when people play a lot they tend to know pain treshholds there partner can endore, as far as old guard goes i think its kewl but a lot of work, protocols and polished rights make for an excellent build up, after a while a lot of things can be like the missonary pose and that is getting the job done well::smiles:: have a ha[[y holiday season

onestandingstill -> RE: Science experiment/Guinea pig/Crash test dummy (12/13/2006 7:06:43 AM)
Hello petdave, I feel the top should have to bottom at least once ,not necessarily painful stuff, but more open to being dressed or undressed, bound or not in charge, and vulnerable to someones advances. I also strongly feel the Top should at least smack their own arm or thigh with something before they implement the use of it on another person. I think to see things from the other side and have some personal concept of what the other side feels is almost essential for them to understand where you are as a sub/slave and your perspective of the D/s world. As the Dom/Domme is in control I think it's good to understand how it feels to be the one controlled. I think this is true of the reverse as well. I am submissive but did top someone twice in my first year as a submissive. It went totally against my place and personality, but I thought it was necessary for a better understanding and respect for the D/s world as a whole for me. I topped one girl and one guy sub at different times and was a complete nervious wreck both times as it's just not me at all. Both knew they were my sub crash test dummies, knew I'd never done these things to someone, and knew I was a lot uncomfortable in the role of doing it as well. While I think the Old Guard notion of serving for an extended length of time as a submissive definitely gives a sadist a dose of compassion for his sub/slave, I do not feel long term submission for a Dominant person is over all any more beneficial than a couple of short doses. From my submissive side I would not be comfortable in any Top role for any extended amount of time and I think to make someone miserable does not help them get the point any better. Making someone fight their own urges once or twice in my opinion is enough to open their eyes to the other side of things. As far as toys and testing them I'll leave you with a question. If the Dom/Domme did not smack their arm or thigh with a new cane, whip or paddle how would they gage how heavy an implement is for themselves? If your answer is the sub can tell them, though I'm a sub I'd still have to say sometimes us subs get so caught up in the moment we forget to keep a good gage on how much intensity is happening. If I was the one in control I'd want to know what sensation I'm feeding my submissives. Respectfully, suzanne

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Science experiment/Guinea pig/Crash test dummy (12/13/2006 7:10:24 AM)
It's not somethings that I expect, but I find I have more respect for someone who has felt their own toys. I started out as the former and have become the latter; it has given me new insight into what happens and how it feels, which gives me more control. Oh, and for those who think being a Dominant automatically means being sadistic and being a sub automatically means being masochist, that's not true. I've seem way too many Masters bottom for their pleasure and way too many slaves top for their pleasure and as a service for it to be. Master Fire

sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Science experiment/Guinea pig/Crash test dummy (12/13/2006 7:46:34 AM)
I personally do not care if they ever were a bottom for any point in time. If I can trust them and have confidence in them I can go from there.

missturbation -> RE: Science experiment/Guinea pig/Crash test dummy (12/13/2006 8:06:31 AM)
Conventional wisdom in the BDSM world dictates that a Top should always test any implement to be used on their bottom on Herself/Himself first (when practical). I actually kind of agree with this for several reasons and know many dom's in r/l who agree. My first reason is safety, to know the capabilities of whatever implement they are using. My second is to give a sub /slave full feeling of that implement knowing the feeling themselves of different ways of using said tool can only enhance the experience.

Altina -> RE: Science experiment/Guinea pig/Crash test dummy (12/13/2006 8:09:32 AM)
No. I do not expect it at all. I rely on my trust in the person; not their level of experience with a certain tool.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Science experiment/Guinea pig/Crash test dummy (12/13/2006 9:02:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: petdave My question to other submissives/bottoms/masochists- do you expect this? Do you even care? No. While it's good for the dom to know what it feels like TO HIM/HER- it's fairly pointless in knowing how I will react. They aren't in a scene headspace as the bottom, they aren't going to have it used in conjunction with other things in the scene and they aren't experiencing it nearly in the range and variety of ways that the bottom will. So, the more you know the better, so experiment and feel it out on yourself as much as possible. But it's useless in terms of knowing how it should be used on ME.

daddysprop247 -> RE: Science experiment/Guinea pig/Crash test dummy (12/13/2006 9:56:58 AM)
yet one more reason why i'm glad that my Master doesn't come from or identify with the "bdsm world". if you're speaking of just tops and bottoms, that's one thing. but if you're talking actual Dominance and submission, that deals with personality, one's nature, and imo a submissive isn't going to be able to whip anyone nor is a Dominant going to submit to being whipped (or any other "bottom" activity).

SlaveAkasha -> RE: Science experiment/Guinea pig/Crash test dummy (12/13/2006 10:53:51 AM)
If Master isn't sure how something will feel, he tries it on himself as much as possible. I don't ever see Master being a sub though for any length of time, it's just not in his nature at all. Since he doesn't have the same feelings I do, of being submissive, it's pretty much null and void for him to try to be. It's sort of like a fox trying to be a bear, they might get a feel for it, but since they aren't a bear, they actually have no clue. Kasha PS Though I think I would enjoy tying Master up at times, but I am sure I would end up getting the worst end of that one.[;)]

Archer -> RE: Science experiment/Guinea pig/Crash test dummy (12/13/2006 11:21:06 AM)
There is a difference between testing a toy out on yoruself to see if you like it and testing a toy out on yourself so that you know about where on the continum of pain the toy sits. I know what every type of toy I play with feels it helps me to decide when where how and how much to use the toy to get the desired effect. I have even been struck with a bullwhip weilded by someone else basicly because while I have certainly welted myself up a bunch when I was learning to throw it there is a big difference between an accidental hit on yourself and a well directed strike with one. I am fairly firm in the belief that for each new type of toy the Top should know something of what it feels like before including it in the toolbox. You dont have to have a full scene with it, nor enjoy the pain itself at all to get a decent idea of what the toy feels like so you can employ it better.

toservez -> RE: Science experiment/Guinea pig/Crash test dummy (12/13/2006 11:52:15 AM)
I think when already in a trusting relationship testing out the toy on them selves seems senseless. Once again people like to jump to worse case scenarios and all dominants that are not me or my own are reckless and dangerous. The fact is in a relationship your dominant should know your body and how it responds well enough that playing with a new toy. I doubt there are many dominants with experience that get a new and different toy without any research and/or just go to town with the first swing of that toy. My experience with dominants on new toys was always going slow with a lot of questions. As far as a dominant first trying the other side, while it probably cannot hurt, I do not see the need for that to be a requirement. So much of this life is mental and emotional that taking pain or following orders that probably piss you off do not directly translate when done to a dominant instead of a submissive. It is for the most part not an apple to apple comparison. I have seen too much done in false assumptions in these relationships where both sides think the other person is the same as them but magically different that is not really thought how different. I could actually see a dominant going wrong making false assumptions based on their bottom experiences when dealing with their submissive.

TheShadows -> RE: Science experiment/Guinea pig/Crash test dummy (12/13/2006 12:20:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam It's not somethings that I expect, but I find I have more respect for someone who has felt their own toys. I started out as the former and have become the latter; it has given me new insight into what happens and how it feels, which gives me more control. Oh, and for those who think being a Dominant automatically means being sadistic and being a sub automatically means being masochist, that's not true. I've seem way too many Masters bottom for their pleasure and way too many slaves top for their pleasure and as a service for it to be. Master Fire I couldn't have said it better myself. MrsShadows

Celeste43 -> RE: Science experiment/Guinea pig/Crash test dummy (12/14/2006 7:16:35 AM)
Or like us, he has a much greater tolerance to pain than I do. He doesn't get aroused by it, but can ignore pain and keep on going. I can't. If he judged my pain tolerance by his, I'd be in major trouble.

SlaveSuru -> RE: Science experiment/Guinea pig/Crash test dummy (12/15/2006 5:22:26 AM)
Speaking as a long time submissive, My Mistress always had my sisiter sub test out new toys on her to see how they felt and if they were suitable, My Master does the same. My Master is quite new to BDSM and I am his first submissive But He has the instincts that any good Master should. He has never been a sub or a bottom but He treats me well as if he knew how it is to be a submissive. He's very good at these things I think because it runbs in His family His older brother and father are Doms. I think being a good master comes from first being a good person and friend, not having been a submissive yourself.

afeathr -> RE: Science experiment/Guinea pig/Crash test dummy (12/15/2006 8:06:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 yet one more reason why i'm glad that my Master doesn't come from or identify with the "bdsm world". if you're speaking of just tops and bottoms, that's one thing. but if you're talking actual Dominance and submission, that deals with personality, one's nature, and imo a submissive isn't going to be able to whip anyone nor is a Dominant going to submit to being whipped (or any other "bottom" activity). In this case, they would only be speaking of the play scene. That is a huge difference to what some of us prefer in our relationships. I agree I could never see Sir submitting to such a thing, nor would I expect him to (nor want him to).

JohnWarren -> RE: Science experiment/Guinea pig/Crash test dummy (12/15/2006 8:33:59 AM)
As far as the "tops need to be bottoms first," I have seen that philosophy yield some excellent tops... and some terrible ones. The terrible ones seemed to be functioning on some sort of a "I was a bottom so I don't need feedback or negotiation because I know what a bottom needs" rule. With this in mind, I suggest people chose their own path to top's vil without prejudice. However, I do believe that every top should know what each toy feels like and how intense it is. Not doing this is like trying to compose a symphony not knowing what some of the notes sound like. There's a big difference between a "sample" of sensation and a full scene. I'm put in mind of one time I was at a club and using my field-telephone generator with TENS pads on a friend. A local domme came over and asked if I would loan it to her. I agreed but required she hold an anal egg in her hand while I gave the generator a gentle half turn. She dropped the egg and screamed. When she'd recovered she said "I'd never use a toy like that on my darling." I was polite enough not to remind her that was exactly what she'd been planning to do and would have done, if I hadn't made sampling the output a requirement of the loan. It's not just exotic electrical toys. One of the most viscious whips I have is simply two pieces of very dense leather on a key ring. Unless used carefully, it will draw blood in a very few strokes. Looking at a toy isn't enough,

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