work relationships and submission (Full Version)

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subsa -> work relationships and submission (12/15/2006 1:15:08 PM)

i don't even know what to title this...just something i'm wrestling with.  i've always been a fairly submissive person to most of the people in my life; its just who i am.  but something is happening at work that's different.  lately, my boss is getting really demanding and unreasonable.  this isn't the first time that his poor planning has ended up setting up the situation that i need to work un-paid overtime and give up planned vacation to bail him (us?) out.  always before (for 6 years), i've just done it (this is a repeating pattern in my life).  this is the first time it's happened though since Master and I have been doing the 24/7 thing.  i'm really struggling this time.  i want to just scream at him...'you're NOT my Master and you can't Make me do anything!"  i haven't said it but i'm not holding my tongue (as is my normal mo) about my anger and frustration.  i don't know if this is a case of just finally getting fed up or if it's a result of my growing submission to Master?  i've read that becoming more assertive in vanilla life can sometimes be a result of submission in a D/s relationship.  any comments, insights or experiences would be appreciated. 



SexyRed -> RE: work relationships and submission (12/15/2006 1:23:22 PM)

Work situations are entirely different that personal situations. I see nothing relevant to personal submission and work related behavior. I am submissive in my personal life, yet am totally dominant in my work life.

You get paid at your job therefore you need to adhere to what the rules are. If there is an issue, you would bring it up to HR or your boss, etc.

Then again, you say it is a repeating pattern, so your boss is well used to taking advantage or whatever he is doing and you not saying anything. I think that it is necessary for your self esteem and self worth to speak up about your boundaries, ie. cancelling a vacation is not a standard practice at most jobs unless it is a complete and total emergency.



subsa -> RE: work relationships and submission (12/15/2006 1:49:24 PM)

i have spoken up...i made a projection in the spring about how long this project would take.  he ignored it and instead started work on a fun but 'unfunded' project.  after bringing up the situation verbally every few weeks i sent e-mails etc...  in sept. and work began but (imo) not enough emphasis was given to the need for speed. 

not meeting this deadline could mean the difference in renewed funding or not.  no funding means a possible loss of jobs (not mine probably but others).  so i guess this is really an ethical question  and i'm on the wrong forum....sorry, but i'm gonna ask anyway.....do i work overtime for no pay?  do i give up my vacation? 



Emperor1956 -> RE: work relationships and submission (12/15/2006 1:52:58 PM)

quote:

so i guess this is really an ethical question  and i'm on the wrong forum....sorry, but i'm gonna ask anyway.....do i work overtime for no pay?  do i give up my vacation? 


Not an ethical question at all.  And why ask us?  If you are unable to decide these things, ask your Master.    You say you've ceded more and more of your volition to him.

E.



DOM68005 -> RE: work relationships and submission (12/15/2006 2:02:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subsa

i don't even know what to title this...just something i'm wrestling with.  i've always been a fairly submissive person to most of the people in my life; its just who i am.  but something is happening at work that's different.  lately, my boss is getting really demanding and unreasonable.  this isn't the first time that his poor planning has ended up setting up the situation that i need to work un-paid overtime and give up planned vacation to bail him (us?) out.  always before (for 6 years), i've just done it (this is a repeating pattern in my life).  this is the first time it's happened though since Master and I have been doing the 24/7 thing.  i'm really struggling this time.  i want to just scream at him...'you're NOT my Master and you can't Make me do anything!"  i haven't said it but i'm not holding my tongue (as is my normal mo) about my anger and frustration.  i don't know if this is a case of just finally getting fed up or if it's a result of my growing submission to Master?  i've read that becoming more assertive in vanilla life can sometimes be a result of submission in a D/s relationship.  any comments, insights or experiences would be appreciated. 


Your employer has violated Federal and state law if you worked overtime and gave up your vacation time without financial compensation.  IF the IRS audits him or somebody complains, he could be doing time in court or worse for him.

While I do not know you, I can tell you that all my subs (so far) have been more agressive or have more than average levels of responsibility in their vanilla world.

I assume (always a bad idea) that you have a good work ethic and work skills having worked for this Sweet Ole Bob for that long.  Talk to your Master, but my vote would be for you to look elsewhere for employment unless there are work benefits that are "out of this world" such as a very healthy year end bonus for all that you have sacrificed.



BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: work relationships and submission (12/15/2006 2:02:51 PM)

I understand how you relate your submissiveness to this situaton subsa.  I have given more in jobs, usually on my own and often without pay or acknowledgement.  The idea that others could lose their jobs because of this situation would prompt me to action.  Maybe some of us suffer from martyrdom syndrome or something? [;)]





LuckyAlbatross -> RE: work relationships and submission (12/15/2006 2:10:24 PM)

I think it's both.  You've finally tasted the fulfillment that comes in CHOOSING what authority goes to where and you are rebelling when another tries to take advantage of that without having your best interests in mind.

I can't tell you how to respond, work is a tricky thing and you've got a long established pattern to fight here.  But try and be clear as much as possible and hold him accountable.



MmakeMme -> RE: work relationships and submission (12/15/2006 2:27:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DOM68005

Your employer has violated Federal and state law if you worked overtime and gave up your vacation time without financial compensation.  IF the IRS audits him or somebody complains, he could be doing time in court or worse for him.


Umm ... not exactly true. There are many ~many~ circumstances in which unpaid overtime is quite permissable, and no employer owes any employee vacation time. (Been through this with my husband's employer, The King of all Rat Bastards.)

Talk to your Sir and ask for His advice / opinion if He has not already expressed it.



subsa -> RE: work relationships and submission (12/15/2006 3:44:44 PM)

thanks all for your replies.   at least its the weekend and i've got till mon to figure out what i want to happen.  ultimately the submisssion (of what ever type) is always your own personal decision.



theRose4U -> RE: work relationships and submission (12/15/2006 4:18:11 PM)

I agree with LA this is part of your learning process. While the lesson may be difficult it's one that you can learn alot about your self through.
This person from what you've described is taking advantage. The reality is unless you were specifically delegated this task that hasn't been performed your boss is ultimately going to be the one that pays for it. Print off all the emails where you notified him about this and keep them at home. Any timelines, related notes(especially those where you met projected deadlines) need to be kept in this same folder. Notify him again in writing that the deadline is approaching and specifically outline what is needed from him. Keep this and the associated reply (put a read notice on the email if your system allows) [this documents that not only did you send the email but that he read it and will come in handy if HR is involved]
In my industry I've worked for this guy a dozen times. The bottom line is important when people are looking but pet projects take precidence every other day. It's always your fault they didn't do their job and as you already see the patern just gets worse. Take your vacation, make sure your back up information is in hard and electronic copy at home and look for a new job. First of the year deadline doesn't get met and yes people (including him) may lose their jobs but at least the blame will be where it belongs.
If you really worry about the people that will be affected and want to go out on a limb email moron's boss stating that you've met objective x,y & z for this project and have repeatedly asked your boss for the remaining information that's never been provided (attach emails). What usually happens is the big boss freaks out, screams at dawdling moron and you get your butt chewed for "going outside the chain of command"...but at least you'll get the info you need. If you do this you need to have your resume in order now and be looking because your life will be hell from them on.



damia -> RE: work relationships and submission (12/15/2006 4:27:17 PM)

i tend to allow employers to walk over me too much. i just don't usually have the communication skills to stand up to them. And the same goes for asking for help from people...i strive to be independent, because i feel if i can't take care of myself, how am i supposed to take care of the needs of another (Master). But when it comes down to it, i -can- do it. It takes a lot of work on my part, and stresses me out to no end. But two weeks ago, i stood up to my boss and told her that i quit. Simply that, because i was tired of the 'give an inch, they take a mile'. And then last week, i even got up the nerve to ask my mother (whom i have very bad relations with) for financial support because i'm going to need it while i look for a new job.

if you're like me, it's a case of just finally getting fed up of being walked all over. That's how it was for me. But i don't know you and can't presume that you're like me at all. But the working up to getting fed up, for me, at least, is related to my feeling of submission toward people who are technically in control of part of me, my employers. Hope that makes some sense...

damia the Kat



losttreasure -> RE: work relationships and submission (12/15/2006 9:16:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MmakeMme

quote:

ORIGINAL: DOM68005

Your employer has violated Federal and state law if you worked overtime and gave up your vacation time without financial compensation.  IF the IRS audits him or somebody complains, he could be doing time in court or worse for him.


Umm ... not exactly true. There are many ~many~ circumstances in which unpaid overtime is quite permissable, and no employer owes any employee vacation time. (Been through this with my husband's employer, The King of all Rat Bastards.)

Talk to your Sir and ask for His advice / opinion if He has not already expressed it.



Actually, neither of you is quite correct.  It depends upon subsa's work status.  If she is a non-exempt employee paid on an hourly basis, Federal law requires that she be compensated at a rate of 1 1/2 times her hourly rate for every hour she works over forty hours in one week.  There is a separate calculation if she is paid on a salary basis but is still non-exempt and different rules if she is a Federal employee. 

Only qualified exempt employees paid on a salary basis per established guidelines are permitted to work more than the standard 40 hour work week without additional compensation.

Regarding vacation time, much depends upon subsa's company policy, but generally it is viewed as earned compensation.  Actually taking the time off from work so that she can receive that compensation is generally viewed as up to the convenience and discretion of the company, subject to the company's own policy.

Oh, and it would not be the IRS to audit the company; it would be the Department of Labor... typically only in response to a complaint made by an employee or ex-employee.  Court is rarely ever the outcome... the penalty is usually payment of any overtime worked and admonition that future overtime pay must be made.  In the case of an employer who flagrantly ignores the overtime rules, an audit is performed and backpay for overtime is made to all employees for the past two years. 

Talking to your Master is fine, but you really need to talk to your HR professional.

Good luck,

LostTreasure (a "REAL" HR professional)  [:D]



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: work relationships and submission (12/15/2006 10:07:50 PM)

Heh and to add my recent experiences- my one co-worker considers herself to have a "dominant" personality- meaning she speaks up and doesn't take crap from anyone and makes herself top dog in all situations.  Which is really only partially true- I've seen her play the office politics game and try and schmooze up to the boss plenty of times knowing full well what her real thoughts are.

The funny thing is that she takes my quietness as passivity.  This is a common thing, in fact I often encourage underestimation and the assumption that not fighting over every scrap means I will let someone walk over me- especially in dominant people who don't realize that quietness can be even stronger than their need to trounce anything they view as a thread.

So she spends her daily energy fighting over everything and making sure everyone in her personal life remains a complete non-threat and trying to take on EVERYTHING for herself...while I go happily along, letting the little short term things go, doing what has to be done.  It's totally worth it when I finally DO take a stand on a serious long term issue, quietly and sternly, and watch her try and figure out what's going wrong in her worldview.

Today she called me up just to tell me that "they" (her and the office mgr/wife of the owner) had decided that for MY cases, that we would now follow a certain procedure.  I accepted it on the phone, as it was indeed a good idea.  However, when I had to go to her desk a minute later, I very deliberately said that I would like to have been part of the discussion on things that involve my cases, but that it was a good idea in the end.

While I honestly had intended it to be only for her so that she could understand that *I* knew what was going on and not to think she could start trouncing over things- the office manager heard it and went on a huge plethora of sorrys and how we need to start having more discussion meetings and how she hadn't meant to leave me out.  It was great.



subsa -> RE: work relationships and submission (12/16/2006 3:02:33 AM)

i am a salaried, exempt employee.  things are so screwed up at my work i wouldn't even dare to go to HR.  i recently asked to make a copy of my transcript which is in my personel folder (which by law i'm entitled to) and was denied.  HR is always on the side of the boss.  they've covered up/settled at least 4 different sexual harassment matters, they cover up/avoid dangerous health concerns; the list is endless.  i've been looking for another job for a while but, due to many reasons, i'm not able to find one that would replace my compensation (salary plus benefits).  Master has a five year plan to allow me to quit and stay home (if i choose too).  He understands the issues and supports me finding another job but i need to make the same overall compensation for the plan to work.  He is as supportive of me in this situation as he possibly can be. 
as far as talking to his boss....that's not really how things work.  he personally is awarded grants from outside sources.  the institution gets a percentage off the top for 'overhead' but he makes all decisions.  so in effect he is top dog.  it's not that i need information from him.  i am the end of the line of a high through put situation that involves 9 other people.  the problem for me is that he had them work on the fun project for too long and now we will not complete the work needed for the best results to be competitive in our renewal (funding is tight and the competition is stiff).  instead he now wants 'the most that we can possible get done' by the end of the year.  so since i'm the end of the line, he wants them to 'feed me' information right up to the last week and then have me do all the data management between christmas and new years.  problem is i've been scheduled to have that week off.  i've been working (unpaid)overtime to keep up as there are so many of them and only one of me.  and it's their jobs that could be in jeopardy if we don't get more funding (and possible mine but not likely as no one, not even him, can do what i do). 

my initial question here was one i was asking myself and thought you all might have some input...why am i (after all this time) bucking the status quo?  why am i not just doing what needs to be done and making the sacrifice as i normally do?  i just wondered if it was related to my growing submission in the primary relationship in my life.  i've read in books (like loving dominant, screw the roses etc...) that can be the case.  i have noticed that my self esteem has improved as we get deeper into this. on the surface (to me) that seems to be counter intuitive.  but looking deeper i can see that submitting to Master has allowed me to accept who i am and given me a greater sense of self worth.  i think that might be why i'm struggling with the work demands.  i now think i 'worth' a vacation and that i don't get paid enough to clean up the crap that is his fault.  the dilemma is that i care what happens to the other workers.  what i ultimately do is my decision.  i just wondered if other subs felt that submitting in their primary relationship made them stronger or more assertive in others. 



SlaveAkasha -> RE: work relationships and submission (12/16/2006 3:28:02 AM)

Maybe it has nothing at all to do with your submission and you are just tired of taking crap from anyone.  I know that's the way I was.  One day I would do anything they wanted, not speak out and then the next, I would speak up for myself, go after promotions, etc..
 
I know that Master can tell me to do something and I will, but anyone else..nope.  I don't know if it's from the relationship, or I am just different now as I am getting older.  It might be part of you finding yourself, or gaining confidence.  I do think mine has to do with confidence, but that didn't come from being in my relationship, it came from realizing my value as a hard worker and as a person in general.  Perhaps your Master helped you find that part of yourself and that is carrying over. 
 
I know you feel responsible for others, but you aren't.  You deserve every right to be happy in your life as everyone else.  I hope things work out for you.
 
Kasha



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