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BettyBoop46 -> RE: Need some advice (2/20/2005 12:34:13 PM)
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I don’t have a problem when topping, or even dominating others in casual play, but when it comes to this guy, nothing works the way I want it to.
We’ve been in an ‘on and off’ relationship for about five years. It’s ‘push/pull’. If I push, he pulls away. If I pull away, he pushes.
We are both Switches, and he was my mentor.
I've always been in a 'sub-frenzy' where he was concerned. At the start, when I was first learning to top particularly, and I had little experience, especially with control, I'd 'threaten' to hold off doing anything for a period of time if he was being 'bratty', - he'd laugh out loud!
He knew it was more of a 'punishment' for me not to touch him, than it was for him not to be touched.
However, due to some recent, intensive therapy, my self-esteem has grown. I’ve gotten over my ‘awe’ of him, as a mentor, and I’ve also come to the realization, that while I’d like us to be friends, and mostly enjoy playing with him, I’m not really in love him anymore. And it doesn’t hurt! Since I told him this, he has been ‘so concerned’ about me, taking me out to lunch, buying gifts…
Okay. I need real advice. Lately, he’s been feeling very subbie, and in fact, actually asked for more D/s rather than just topping. But at the same time, he undermines my efforts to do so. (At least he did before I told him I don’t love him anymore.)
He has always been the ‘teacher’. He goes on and on, frequently during a scene. (But politely asking permission first.) In our early days, I needed to learn a lot, and while it was appreciated, some things could have waited until the scene was over.
I’d listen, but then I couldn’t stop him.
SABOTATAGE seems to be his middle name. Looking back, there have been many instances that would have been better, if only he’d just shut up and enjoyed the ride!
I remember a particularly devilish scene I had set up. Although I was ‘new’ then, I spent some time with my CBT instructor that afternoon so I knew what I was doing, as well as possible dangers.
In part, it involved nipple clamps that were chained to a cock ring. The chain was (purposely) a little too short for him. He could either stay in a slightly curled position, with his hips on the bed, or if he wanted to rest his shoulders on the bed, his butt would have to be up. When it was, I’d give it a whack with a crop. Within a couple of minutes, he started looking distressed and began mumbling. I couldn’t understand what he was saying, and immediately released the clamps, etc and put a pillow under his head. I thought he was hurting in some unforeseen way!
He says, ‘That was great! You saw that you had total control, while I couldn’t…”
I nearly hit him in anger for ruining a perfectly good scene. (Similar to the feeling you get when your kid has wandered off, - and then you find them. At first, you’re so relieved that they’re not hurt… then you remember that they wandered off when you told them not to!)
While I think he does this ‘spontaneous’ teaching because that’s part of his modus operandi,
I also suspect that it’s a coping mechanism. He’s the ‘experienced’ one, the ‘tough’ guy who can take it… But he does get scared (which is something he’s asked for – to feel fear) and if he’s ‘turned’ his mind onto other things, he’s found a way (blocking) to deal with the feelings play generates. There was a similar incident recently when I invited a ‘mystery’ guest to play.
He said afterwards that while that has been a long time fantasy, he took it so ‘well’ that it was ‘no big deal’.
Bulls**t! He turned his mind ‘off’ and lost a great chance to let go and really have fun.
So, to get to my question,
He wants to play tonight. If I decide to play, I’d like to give him a set of ‘ground rules’. (Typical sub stuff - requesting permission to speak, use the bathroom, or have a cigarette…etc)
While I don’t mind a certain amount of ‘brat-iness’, I want to make it clear that if he does seriously attempt to undermine my authority or ruin the scene, I will (and I’ve never heard of a Domme doing this) but I will safeword, “RED”.
The play will stop, and he will have to go home immediately.
No second chance. No discussion. No ‘goodbye’ cup of coffee.
I know that I should be able to maintain control of a scene, but because of his previous behavior, I know he doesn’t play fair. It’s more than not being ‘fair’. Being ‘bratty’ can be part of the fun, but he goes out of bounds. It sounds drastic, but some guys need to be clubbed over the head before they get the point.
Does this sound like a plan?
Why do I even want to bother? There’s a smidge of love left, but I’m tired of having him control everything in scene and out. And chalk it up to foolish pride.
BettyBoop, you seem to of hit the nail on the head yourself. You have surmised beautifully, his mental defensive behavior of refusing to submit to you.
Congratulations on dealing with your own demons, and your subsequent rise in self esteem. Your plans for some boundary placing upon this person, certainly reflect a really good self esteem.
I myself am a switch, but had never submitted to anyone, prior to my current partner. I would opt out of submission, by doing exactly the games you describe in this person, to avoid feeling submissive, as that is a truly scary place to go. It requires far more trust than topping does - i was, like him, a coward. Giving out enough to keep the top there, but never enough to provide either of us with true satisfaction. A bottomless pit! An insatiable one too. Keeping a ‘professional’ head on, is indeed a excellent way of distancing yourself, and keeping the top running back again, ever more determined to "break" you.
But it does not satisfy. Neither my, nor his needs could ever be satisfied when using that behavior pattern.
It seems only logical, that when you give the black and white boundary of 'if you screw this up, your out the door' 'i dont love you and wont tolerate this any more' that he comes running with "i want a D/s relationship". AT LAST, your getting somewhere. But it would seem too little too late? I would suspect that his ‘I’m in charge' mode, extends to outside of play, into his life, he's a teacher. Teachers teach from a deep need they have to have that particular role. It truly is a vocation. But not always a altruistic one. Its a position of authority, it provides you with a safety cocoon. Just because he wants to stop topping from the bottom, sometimes, if that is the way the relationship was formed, its extremely difficult a habit to break. The truly simple thing i learnt, and he will too eventually, is that, if you want to be dominated, you have to submit. No if's, not but's. Its black and white.
For him to offer himself as a sub to your Domination, is a huge step, and i applaud his effort, but it would seem that you have moved on.
For me, to give up topping from the bottom, it took a D/s relationship. Within that relationship, our love grew, the more i loved and was loved, the more i trusted. With trust came my submission. But i was not allowed to top from the bottom - at all! My partner knew i was a switch. He was hypersensitive to me topping, and nipped it in the bud fast, whenever he thought it was appearing (even when it wasn’t sometimes . A very strict D/s frame work is excellent for removing the defense mechanism i was using. It may well be for your friend.
The question remains, but who will it be that makes this man submit? Or will he lose out forever? Switching for me, if you can call it that, was me topping, having a ball, but never having the other side of my needs catered for. I dipped out. I lost a 13 yr relationship because i couldn’t submit. 13 yrs someone put into me, trying to pull from me, what i could not give. Do you want to be like my ex, 13 yrs of trying to achieve the unachievable? It took a certain type of Dominant to unlock the restraints id put on myself. Not better, just a different approach. It would seem that this maybe the case for him? You cannot dominate him. Why are you continuing to try? This is a no win situation. You lose, he loses. He may well see that by not submitting, he is the one that is causing the problem, hence the offer of the D/s. But he, like me, has had his chance. Its now time to move on to those that really can fulfill your need to dominate, and for him to be allowed to find someone who truly will command his submission.
I wish you the very best of luck. Enjoy the play if you wish, but remember, its playing. Do not be fed a load of bull again. He cant help it. Maybe if he'd had some intensive therapy, (and being left alone by you will be quite some therapy!) he would learn to shut the fuck up, stop shooting himself in the foot, and submit. But some of us, love to learn the hard way, and a new partner, maybe just the ticket!
Personally, i believe that you should move on, you do not love him. Move on.
As for play, give him something to hold that he can drop as a safe word, and gaffa tape the guys chops shut. Once youve got him really going and submitting, then take the item he's holding as a safe word. Remind him that if speaks AT ALL, the scene ends. Get his agreement, then stop. Right there and then. End of scene. Teach him the lesson. If he can accept this, maybe, just maybe, you'll consider another play another day. But make him put his body where his mouth is first, and earn your investment of your valuable time. Some of us have to have submission taken, we cannot offer it.
Proudsub is right, in that normally, if you safe word out, there'd be a move to carry on once probs are sorted, or cuddle time, but that in this case, would be very detrimental.
Best of luck, and have a ball (literally if you wish).
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You've changed and he hasn't, and I think by that fact alone, conflict is going to be there. Your history as a couple is bound to make play complicated. If it's always going to be a struggle, as it sounds like it has been, moving on might be the best thing. Play should be a positive experience, in my opinion.
Be well,
Julie
(in reply to BettyBoop46)
Report | Post #: 6
Thank you all!
Pandora, you said just what my sister did. (She’s not lifestyle but has a good grasp of dominance and submission.) And I thank you for sharing your story.
It’s better to just let go of this relationship. When he called yesterday, it was already evening. He got ‘involved’ in a work project at home. Although we’re both night owls, he knows I don’t want to start a play session very late. I had already decided not to play hours earlier. No sense beating a dead horse. I don’t need any more disappointments.
Thanks, again to all of you. I just needed some validation, and I got it.
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