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Psychological fallout of submission - 12/17/2006 9:38:57 AM   
Palaceofwinds


Posts: 8
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline 		Hello fellow subs, slaves and interested other readers,

I'm a novice sub and I've just begun my training with a very caring Mistress who is breaking me in to Her requirements.  I had my first training session with Her very recently, and all things considered, I felt it went remarkably well for both of us.  However, I forsee myself having a lot of difficulty coping with the psychological fallout from my training.  While I made my Mistress quite proud of me, and pushed myself further than She had expected, I did displease Her on two occasions and I experienced a sampler of Her wrath.  While I knew full well beforehand that this is part and parcel of my training - the need for correction, discipline and, God forbid, punishment - I did not realise how low and degraded I would feel when faced with the ferocity of Her dominance when I displeased Her.  Granted, my transgressions were very fundamental ones, central to my submission, and I fully understood why I was being censured, but it really shook me mentally.  My basic difficulty is this: while I know that my Mistress ultimately cares very much for me, and respects me, I forget this when I'm being chastised.  Right at that moment, I believe that my Mistress hates me and is disgusted with me, and even though She subsequently forgives me, I remain very upset with myself.  This leads me to having quite a schizophrenic mindset towards my Mistress: I'm mad about Her and scared shitless of Her at the same time, and I find this mentality very hard to take.  I would like to remain as much as I can on an even-keel, and accept that my Mistress's displeasure is tough love that is necessary for my training and development, but I think that this is going to be the hardest thing for me to do.  While the physical side of play can be very intense and painful, I really would take physical pain anyday over mental pain. 

So I'm just wondering if anyone out there has gone through what I've described during their training, and did they find any effective ways of dealing with it?  I guess there are no easy answers, and it may be that there is always going to be a psychological price to be paid for chosing this sexual lifestyle.  My worry, though, is that my fear of my Mistress will move from being a healthy one to an all-consuming one that will stifle me as a sub, and my mind will become seriously conflicted.  I've tried as best I can to explain my worry.  I'm not sure what it means or if people can relate to it.  Does it call into question whether I'm submissive at all?  I firmly believe that I am, and it may be just a matter of developing a thick skin.

Anyway, thank you for reading.  Any comments and feedback would be most appreciated. 

Palaceofwinds
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RE: Psychological fallout of submission - 12/17/2006 9:45:51 AM   
amaidiamond


Posts: 1793
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Watford / London
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Palaceofwinds

I guess there are no easy answers, and it may be that there is always going to be a psychological price to be paid for chosing this sexual lifestyle.  My worry, though, is that my fear of my Mistress will move from being a healthy one to an all-consuming one that will stifle me as a sub, and my mind will become seriously conflicted. 


I am trying to understand your question fully and I get the gist but i was wondering if you can clarify, you state that she is training you and it is a BDSM relationship, what I am wondering is  - is it only a sexual BDSM relationship as this is what your words suggest, if this is the case I can understand where your mind might struggle with the other, non sexual aspects of the training if that makes sense.

(in reply to Palaceofwinds)
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RE: Psychological fallout of submission - 12/17/2006 9:55:17 AM   
Palaceofwinds


Posts: 8
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline 		I am trying to understand your question fully and I get the gist but i was wondering if you can clarify, you state that she is training you and it is a BDSM relationship, what I am wondering is  - is it only a sexual BDSM relationship as this is what your words suggest, if this is the case I can understand where your mind might struggle with the other, non sexual aspects of the training if that makes sense.

Hi amaidiamond,

Thanks for the reply.  To try and answer you, it's very early days yet, but I do believe that our BDSM relationship extends and will extend beyond the sexual realm.  I'm not sure at this stage if I'm sub or slave, but my training will not be solely confined to to the bedroom and play; it will involve developing a constant mindfulness and attentiveness on my part regarding my Mistress and her needs, as in paying attention to minute details, so that eventually I will automatically and unconsciously act submissively and servilely around her, reflecting my subordinate status to her, be it in a restaurant, play environment, or anywhere else.  I hope this helps you.  Thanks.

Palaceofwinds

(in reply to amaidiamond)
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RE: Psychological fallout of submission - 12/17/2006 10:04:44 AM   
gardenia100


Posts: 38
Joined: 3/25/2006
Status: offline 		Palaceofwinds
I think I would like more clearification on your situation.  As I understood it, you did something wrong and she punished you in some fashion.  From that punishment you seen a side of yourself that rebelled against it.  You still want to be submissive to her and embrace the idea but the punushment brought out something in you that you were not expecting? Is this true?

Barbara

(in reply to Palaceofwinds)
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RE: Psychological fallout of submission - 12/17/2006 10:07:38 AM   
PoeticPrincess


Posts: 49
Joined: 10/21/2006
Status: offline 		I think you need to take a deep breath and speak intimately with your new Domme. She is not legally allowed to kill you, and you are legally entitled to walk away if you feel psychological damage from your very first encounter with her. As a newby you might need a gentler touch, and it is in your interests, or in the interests of your mental health to approach this subject with clarity and maturity.

Psychologists waiting rooms are filled with intelligent, normal people who felt the need to do everything to a higher, more conscientious level than anybody else. You can do your best, and you can take your punishments without damage so long as you do not allow the failures to become disproportionate. If she is patient and teaches you well, I am sure you will become a very good slave indeed. You are intelligent and willing to please, so your intention is good, and the rest will follow. Good Luck to you both and I hope you take heart that every single person in this community has experienced the feelings you are currently having.

(in reply to Palaceofwinds)
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RE: Psychological fallout of submission - 12/17/2006 10:11:50 AM   
MissyRane


Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline 		Communication communication communication *sing*

(in reply to PoeticPrincess)
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RE: Psychological fallout of submission - 12/17/2006 10:34:54 AM   
KeirasSecret


Posts: 415
Joined: 8/17/2006
From: central NH
Status: offline 		I think I understand what your talking about. If I am correct, I can tell you that I also feel simular as soon as I know I've made Sir unhappy with me.

Thankfully though, Sir is the type of Dom that once punishment has been served then I am forgiven, and if he is with me at the time, he re-enforces that by showning me some sort of affection before he leaves. ie: holding me, rubbing my back, giving me a quick kiss.

If Sir did not do these things I would try to remember; if he took the time to punish me instead of releasing me, it is doubtful that he hates or is disgusted with me.

May I ask what you mean by schizophrenic mindset?

_____________________________

It apears to me, the practice of "an eye for an eye" has finally taken it's toll; the majority are now walking around blind.

Bitching; whining in a louder voice.

If the truth hurts, change it!

(in reply to Palaceofwinds)
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RE: Psychological fallout of submission - 12/17/2006 10:34:58 AM   
feylin


Posts: 182
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline 		Hi, Palaceofwinds:

I can remember several instances where I thought he could not care about ~ let alone even like me ~ if he was punishing me in such a harsh way for my transgression.  It took me a while to even voice that thought to him.  I asked him if he hated me after one particularly harsh instruction.  In my overactive imagination, I though he might be hiding his intense dislike for me really well and only allowing it life during punishment. <grins>

I know it sounds silly now, but I was brand new at the time and truly struggling with everything about the relationship.  For me the passage of time removed those thoughts.  He was consistent and stable and my trust in him became complete and I simply did not have the same fears anymore.  Actually, I am not even sure why (there was no climatic moment), they just were no longer there during punishment.  It was still very difficult when I failed and I certainly did not look forward to punshiments, but I was calmer and recognized it as another learning experience for me.  Knowing/believing he was not going to leave because I messed up and knowing that I could be forgiven were things that cemented over time.  That does not mean I did not have the occasional "Oh! You have got to be kidding me!" thoughts. <grins>  But I felt safer emotionally and physically as he kept his word time and again.

I think it takes time.  As you go along you will communicate more easily with your Mistress and find a deeper trust which will allow you to let go of your own fears.  Even though I no longer have a D/s relationship with this man, the fact that he still values me even after I mess up or disappoint him just fills me up inside.  It is his treasured gift to me.  Or, at least, it feels like a gift.

Best wishes,
Christine

(in reply to Palaceofwinds)
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RE: Psychological fallout of submission - 12/17/2006 11:02:05 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		I have a different experience. I learned early on that punishment is something that is not good for me. I can't differentiate between the activities of play and the actions of punishment. I am simply not good at compartmentalizing these things.

On the other hand, I discovered that all someone has to do is tell me once and I'll be darn sure to not do it again. I simply do not forget this stuff. I don't know why.

There are a lot of reasons behind my antagonism toward punishment. I simply do NOT believe it has to be intrinsic to a D/s or even M/s relationship. Because of this, I looked for someone who'd processed things approximately the same as I did.

I ended up with the person that was right for me. He does not punish, but he can get me to do the right thing with just a look - and I never forget it from that point on. When I do end up doing something wrong that requires something more, we do something quite extraordinary. We talk. And when it's all sorted out, he expects me to live according to those rules. There are no exceptions from that point forward. If it happens again, he reads it as me choosing not to submit and behaves accordingly.

I like being held to that level of responsibility. It makes me feel good when I see the glimmer in his eyes because he hasn't had to remind me of things along the way. Obedience is my "fetish" I guess.

juliet

(in reply to feylin)
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RE: Psychological fallout of submission - 12/17/2006 11:20:12 AM   
Palaceofwinds


Posts: 8
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you everybody so far for your very helpful comments.  I must clarify something though: my Mistress did not punish me at all during my training.  I was merely disciplined and corrected, and this was not at the heavy end of the discipline scale.  But I guess everything is relative, and relative to me, I did feel low after being disciplined.  But my Mistress did reassure me, forgive me, and explained that all is forgotten once she does this.  I never meant to give the impression that I was punished, and I'm sorry if I did.  The overriding message is communication, this is the most important thing I think.

Thanks,
Palaceofwinds

(in reply to julietsierra)
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RE: Psychological fallout of submission - 12/17/2006 11:34:06 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		I never thought the worst of your Mistress. It's all the same to me...punishment, correction...if there's a corporal process involved in the correction, it's where I lose it. Hence my comments regarding the talking.

juliet

(in reply to Palaceofwinds)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Psychological fallout of submission - 12/17/2006 11:43:08 AM   
feylin


Posts: 182
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

I ended up with the person that was right for me. He does not punish, but he can get me to do the right thing with just a look - and I never forget it from that point on. When I do end up doing something wrong that requires something more, we do something quite extraordinary. We talk. And when it's all sorted out, he expects me to live according to those rules. There are no exceptions from that point forward. If it happens again, he reads it as me choosing not to submit and behaves accordingly.

I like being held to that level of responsibility. It makes me feel good when I see the glimmer in his eyes because he hasn't had to remind me of things along the way. Obedience is my "fetish" I guess.

juliet


Hi, juliet:

Thank you for sharing your own experience ~ its not one that quickly comes to my mind since it has not been my experience.  I can certainly understand correction from just a look.  The look. <grins>

Best wishes,
Christine

(in reply to julietsierra)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Psychological fallout of submission - 12/17/2006 11:47:13 AM   
Palaceofwinds


Posts: 8
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline 		Hi Juliet,

Of course, I totally understand.  On the face of things, one would think that there's not much difference between correction, discipline and punishment, and it's all just semantics, but in BDSM I think each word carries it's own level of discomfort and pain, with punishment being at the heavy end of the scale.

Thanks,
Palaceofwinds

(in reply to julietsierra)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Psychological fallout of submission - 12/17/2006 12:21:12 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		Eight years of this real life (or is it nine? ) and frankly I don't spend a lot of time splitting hairs between correction, discipline and punishment. If its corporal and a reaction to something I've done wrong, then that interferes with my ability to play with utter abandon when he feels like it.

Since you brought up the whole idea of psychological fallout and you admitted that you didn't realize "how low and degraded [you] would feel when faced with the ferocity of Her dominance when [you] displeased Her"  and that it ..."really shook [you] mentally," all the definitional hierarchies you're putting forth now don't amount to a hill of beans when you're talking about whatever psychological fallout may occur.

So, while I respect your views, let's not quibble over which is worse in a generalized fashion. Whatever definitional hierarchy works for you doesn't necessarily work for others and generalizing to all of bdsm isn't going to help all that psychological fallout you're worried about either.

You asked specifically "So I'm just wondering if anyone out there has gone through what I've described during their training, and did they find any effective ways of dealing with it? " and I gave you what works for me.

I for one do NOT believe that there should be a psychological price to be paid in order to live this life. Either it's healthy for you or it's not. There's really no spot in the middle. If it's an acclimation issue you're having, then that's something entirely different and it would be more appropriate to voice this issue than to inquire as to the psychological fallout as if your Mistress is somehow damaging you.

juliet

(in reply to Palaceofwinds)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Psychological fallout of submission - 12/17/2006 12:39:01 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		i think if i understand your post correctly you are saying that it is far more intense to be corrected for an infraction then you thought it would be....and that in those moments of corrections you dont feel nurtured or cherished in fact you feel unsupported and unloved...
 
this is a pretty normal thing and easily corrected...it simply means that you are very sensitive to reprimands, and that you dont need a heavy tug of the leash because something more subtle will be more effective.
 
you need to communicate this to her...i dont know where she learned her Domina skills  but many of us have learned them from the public sector, and many folks in that realm are not as eager to deeply serve as you appear to be.
 
she may have needed more extreme tones of course correction in the past with others and is mistakenly lumping you in with that lot...or perhaps her skills are coming from books and movies, again there is a more extreme tone of course correction in most books and movies because its is more about play acting then truly serving.
 
what i would suggest though, is to not ignore this, you are sensitive and fragile, and could be easily broken, something that i am sure she is not aware of, sit down tonight and look at solutions to this issue, because to ignore it will set things into motion that will cause suffering and even phycological harm down the line.
 

 
 

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to Palaceofwinds)
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RE: Psychological fallout of submission - 12/17/2006 12:53:54 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		When I had my first Dom at 21 and began training I had similar feelings. You have to remember you are learning and growing, communication is a must. Talk to your Mistress about your feelings and she might be able to help you understand them. I had trouble with feeling comfortable doing something society told me was wrong. After time that didn't bother me.  Mental control is apart of training and alot of Masters/Mistresses use it on a continual basis. the next time you are being chastized , think in your mind why she is doing it. If you cannot it is your right to ask for clarification. Always communicate feelings you do not undsertand with your Mistress. Good luck to you.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to Palaceofwinds)
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RE: Psychological fallout of submission - 12/17/2006 1:04:09 PM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline 		When i was with my first Daddy Dom, spanking was his preferred form of discipline.  But after the spanking, when i was bawling my eyes out, he would always sit me on his lap and reassure me until i was done crying, then he would always add why he did it and that it would be worse the next time    i hated the spankings but in all honesty, the whole process was quite cathartic....and i never walked away from that feeling worse than i had before.
 
Now some have said that their partner used withdrawal as a form of discipline (as in, you will not talk to me for a week type of thing).  Now for me, even with reassurance afterward, that would be too psychologically damaging. 
 
The discipline obviously has a purpose....and it has to be effective.....but if it causes some type of psychological damage, harm, distrust, whatever, then what good is it?   Or will it get easier over the long term?  Only you can decide that.  Yep, sounds like more communication might be needed.
 
Best wishes to you.
Daddysgirl

< Message edited by adaddysgirl -- 12/17/2006 1:29:50 PM >

(in reply to Palaceofwinds)
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RE: Psychological fallout of submission - 12/17/2006 1:53:37 PM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feylin

I can certainly understand correction from just a look.  The look. <grins>



Or the absence of a fond look. It kills me.

_____________________________

Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama

(in reply to feylin)
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RE: Psychological fallout of submission - 12/17/2006 3:10:35 PM   
Sirandlittle1


Posts: 538
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline 		Sounds like you are both new to this relationship with its dynamic. She may of had more subs/slaves than she can shake a stick at, but she's never had you before. So has to learn about how to dominate YOU.

She's not a telepath. Tell her how you feel. Show her this thread. Be openly honest. She may realise that her correction of you, in hindsight, doesnt need to be quite so severe. A gentle tug on the lead as someone wisely said, could be surfice.

The responsibility for learning is one shared by both of you. Not her responsibility. You are a adult, and as such, must learn to communicate like one. Discuss this, and everything else with her. Way way way before you come to us. She is the one that you are trying to make this work with, she is the one that you will get your guidance from. She is the one that needs to hear your thoughts on every aspect of your shared relationship.

Ive been the recipient of punishment from my Dom in the beginning. It doesnt work for me, it devastates me into a space where i lose control of myself. HE is NOT a psychological counsellor, he will NOT be able to replace my broken ego boundries. And a broken sub is not something he would want. Talking through difficulties, is what works for us. But each couples dynamic is different. And you will have fun developing yours together, than guessing each others wishes.

Conversly, that 'lowering' and 'humbled' feeling, after years together, he knows me so well, that he can use this as a technique. He has learnt what's safe, what's edgy, and can take me safely to that edge. He can push me in ways of punishment or harshness, so that i am dropped instantly. Without me sustaining any damage. and i love its affects now.
To have your ego boundries pushed, you must be in a safe 'place'. So that you can let go. This doesnt happen immediately, its one of the benefits of the developed relationship. That knowledge that you gain.The trust that is built. That could be your partner, or your play mate, trust is earned.

Submitting at the beginning, is truly difficult. It messes with your head somewhat. Spins you out. Its your responsibility to convey respectfully of course, what is going on for you. She will help you.
You will help her.
Best wishes to you both
littleone


(in reply to MmakeMme)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Psychological fallout of submission - 12/17/2006 3:22:49 PM   
feylin


Posts: 182
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MmakeMme

quote:

ORIGINAL: feylin

I can certainly understand correction from just a look.  The look. <grins>



Or the absence of a fond look. It kills me.


Ohhhh...taking me there was just mean!  Here I was, happily going along.....

Very true.  I also thought daddysgirl's comment about not being allowed to talk to him for a week was the stuff of nightmares.

Let me end this (my post) on a happier note:  While writing my post I remembered how he would deal with my moments during play, punishment (whatever one would like to call it, I'm okay with it), when I became unsure, upset, what have you.  He always made me laugh.  He always had this ability to draw me out of whatever dramatic upheaval I was fully prepared to go the distance on and make me laugh.  Soon he would be able to draw me back to my original problem once I was in a calmer state of mind.  Looking back, it is a cool gift and it makes sense.  Kind of like never trying to argue with someone who is drunk, it makes sense.

Ok, back in my happy place.

(in reply to MmakeMme)
Profile   Post #: 20
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