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Total Confusion - 12/17/2006 10:01:13 AM   
innerslave


Posts: 2
Joined: 12/13/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings!

I had fantasies of being a slave since I was 10 years old. I remember myself being all excited by the idea of kneeling in front of a woman and kissing her feet. I started to date near the age of 19. After a few months in the relationship, I would try to include my fantasies in our relationship. I remember telling my first girl friend that I wanted to get whipped. Boy did she ever have a laugh with that one. Well! I guess she wasn't open to SM. So after bugging her too often with my needs, she left me.


The same scenario was repeated with all the other girls I dated. They just did not accept the fact that I wanted to become a slave. They told me I was not a real man..

So! I stayed single for a while, until I discovered BDSM sites on the internet. It took me time to find a woman that was compatible with me. But now that I found her and  built an on line relationship with her for years, being ready to move to the next level, being real time. All of a sudden she tells me that she has two lovers in her life, which she has sex with. She then tells me that once I move in with her, I would have to accept these lovers and that I would be denied sex and kept in a chasity device for ever.

I was knocked off my chair by this revelation, I always thought that the only difference between BDSM and vanilla was that two partners have a different sexuality than vanilla people and that they like to role play once in a while.

I really like this woman, but I do not think it is right for her to have lovers. What do you think?  Should I dump her and move on. That is what I want to do, but at the same time, we seem to agree on everything else and my feelings for her are very powerful.

Please, what should I do?
Did this ever happen to one of you?

Innerslave
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Total Confusion - 12/17/2006 10:22:29 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: innerslave
I really like this woman, but I do not think it is right for her to have lovers. What do you think?

I think you're free to have your opinions, but it is not for you to decide what is right for others, only yourself.

quote:

  Should I dump her and move on. That is what I want to do, but at the same time, we seem to agree on everything else and my feelings for her are very powerful.

Feelings don't make a relationship.  You shouldn't dump her, you should simply explain that you really aren't compatible and it won't work.


_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to innerslave)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Total Confusion - 12/17/2006 10:24:24 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		I'm very sorry this has happened to you. And yes, I'd warrant that it's happened to all of us in one way or another along the way. When people develop relationships online, we only can know what someone tells us about themselves. I'm not going to argue or discuss the rightness or wrongness of her decisions.

What I will tell you are the rules I developed for myself after being shot down a few times in the online world.

First and foremost: No online relationships. When you develop online relationships, the primary person in your relationship is your imagination because ultimately that's who you're dealing with

2: No one is real until you've met them face to face and seen that who they are in real life is who they've portrayed themselves to be online

3. Never get so involved with someone online that your emotions begin to take over (and that can EASILY happen) Be in control of your emotions. Don't allow them to control you.

4. Make plans as soon as possible to meet in real life and explore the relationship in a meaningful way that deals with each other - warts and all

That takes care of the online issues:

Now:

5: Never ever compromise on the kind of relationship you want. Be selfish. Be self-centered if you must, but it's important to realize that this life is NOT - I repeat NOT easy. If you are not compatible, that just makes it that much harder. This is your life and your life, your ideas and your visions for your life have value. Treat them accordingly.

6. Don't look for someone that is not now, but may wind up over time being the kind of person you want to be with. Look for those things right from the beginning. Do not expect to change anyone. Take them exactly as they are at this point in time and contemplate whether they fit the kind of person you are looking for. If not, WALK AWAY - even when it hurts. I repeat...WALK AWAY. You can't make decisions for them. You can only make decisions for yourself. Be aware of the difference.

7. Never lose faith. This kind of searching takes patience and patience and even more patience. I know it seems like you've been waiting forever, but wait longer. The wait'll be worth it, and when you find who you're looking for, you'll look back and wonder why you were ever so anxious.

8. Find things to do that develop you in this life you are choosing. Use the time you have wisely. It'll pay off in the long run. Take classes, develop your beliefs, your views, your career. It's all part of who you are and if you believe you are valuable, then these things about you are also valuable.

9. Get involved. Don't sit back bemoaning your lot in life. Be friendly, outgoing - even when it's hard (I'm shy...it's incredibly difficult for me, but when I was single, I was at everything I could be - not searching, but simply enjoying myself, developing friendships and LEARNING.

And finally:

10: Develop a tough skin. It's hard. This is going to hurt. You are wanting something with a huge price tag. If you're not willing or able to pay it, then be aware that life's going to be even harder, or you're going to have to change your vision for yourself.

Now, all that being said, you can choose to not like what her choices are. She can choose not to like your views. Better to find out this way than to be so involved that you are living there, with no other place to go and find out it's not to your liking. Being unhappy in a bdsm Master/slave relationship is no treat for the Master OR the slave, and no one wants or needs a martyr.

This is all learning. It's hard. It's painful...and it'll pay off for you on down the line. Right now, it just sucks though.

Good luck to you.

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 12/17/2006 10:37:30 AM >

(in reply to innerslave)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Total Confusion - 12/17/2006 10:27:16 AM   
BDSM05478


Posts: 417
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		ahhh the issues that crop up when people become real.........It seems to me that your idea of WIITWD is one that only takes place in a bedroom and sexual graatification is a give in, your idea is wrong if that is the case. Either you can accept Her needs and terms and be HAPPY with it or you can't, do not force yourself to be subjected to a harmful experience because you think you have strong feelings for Her. If you haven't met rl than i knw it can feel like it's real but it sadly not. Why limit yourself to being influenced for so long by only one person that didn't have the grace to tell you she was poly for the start. As a blooming member of the pro poly lifestyle, anyone that we have any idea of being involved with knows very early on that is how we live our life.

_____________________________

"It's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart" U.E. McGill

"Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present." - Marcus Aurelius

(in reply to innerslave)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Total Confusion - 12/17/2006 10:40:10 AM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline 		        She's a bitch.  You got played.  Dump her and make sure to express how you feel about her complete lack of ethics.  Years without telling you it was no sex r/t?  Trust is THE most critical element of WIITWD and her failure to provide information you needed makes her unworthy of that. 

     Just my opinion.

(in reply to innerslave)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Total Confusion - 12/17/2006 11:50:58 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		i think that you have to decide what is right for you as far as your mistresses sexuality goes...
 
but i can tell you that there a number of slaves that are blissfully happy in that situation....and there are those that are not.
 
also forgive me for being blunt but if she has already decided not to have sex with you, she is not going to, she is not sexually aroused by you, and you will suffer immensely if you are aroused by her...
 
sometimes suffering is good for slaves but honestly based on what you wrote: your romantic notions of love in a PE relationship, your newness to the lifestyle and the fact that she has been with holding some very vital information from you i do not believe that this is one of those cases.
 
 

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to WyrdRich)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Total Confusion - 12/17/2006 1:46:41 PM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline 		You've been chatting with her and talk with her on the phone for years, and she just now told you that she has two lovers and you will be denied sex?

Wow.

Talk about a complete disrespect of your trust. What you do with it is up to you, of course, but I'd be pissed, Pal. And hurt.

_____________________________

Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Total Confusion - 12/17/2006 1:57:08 PM   
MaryT


Posts: 553
Joined: 12/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

First and foremost: No online relationships. When you develop online relationships, the primary person in your relationship is your imagination because ultimately that's who you're dealing with.


This seems very wise to me.

Innerslave, I'm sorry to hear what she did to you.  I would feel betrayed if a dom I was working to invest trust in turned out to be so secretive.  Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

(in reply to julietsierra)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Total Confusion - 12/17/2006 2:39:02 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		Welcome to the Forums and, by the sounds of it, welcome to the perils and pitfalls of online relationships.
 
You got played so rack it up to experience and move on....  And if it really is a real life relationship you seek, don't invest *years* in an online relationship that doesn't include r/l experiences with that person.  Online is an excellent *communication* tool but not a great environment as the sum total of your relationship.
 
She can have all the lovers she wants, anyone can (if they can get them... lol) and it's not for you to judge her beyond deciding you're not interested in dating "the town bike".... 
 
But don't think it's easy for male subs to find a Domme for an exclusive relationship - you have much competition.  Most Dommes know it, too, and there'll be the unscrupulous who'll string you along for their own reasons.  If it ain't moving toward r/l, it probably won't go anywhere - acceptable time frame is up to the individual(s)....
 
Focus.

(in reply to innerslave)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Total Confusion - 12/17/2006 2:54:17 PM   
LokisBrat


Posts: 431
Joined: 12/5/2005
From: Mayberry, Illinois
Status: offline 		I think the lack of that last little bit of information would be a sign of what was yet to come.  Most On-line relationships are facades and are rarely what they seem to be.  We create the perfect scenario in our mind and allow this information to be shared to the other recipeient, only for them to help create more of the fictional fantasy to ultimately create a "shared illusion".  In short, we can become whoever we want on-line, but the harsh reality of it is, it is simply a "shared illusion".


LOKI


_____________________________

"My pleasure, your pain. Doesn't matter, its all the same"

-Loki

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Total Confusion - 12/17/2006 3:10:35 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline
quote:

All of a sudden she tells me that she has two lovers in her life, which she has sex with. She then tells me that once I move in with her, I would have to accept these lovers and that I would be denied sex and kept in a chasity device for ever.


She is probably married, or never had any intention of ever meeting you and now that meeting is coming up she has had to find a way to try to put you off and thought up the most unappealing circumstance so that you will decide "this is not for me".

quote:

and my feelings for her are very powerful.


You need to process these "powerful" feelings you have for her. Think about what happens when you really desire something, your whole being gets invested in it, when it "finally" arrives on your doorstep you have built up so much energy through the desire to have it that you almost get drunk with delerium thinking all your christmases have come at once. Thats how desires work..

The danger is though, that when you think your greatest desire is going to vanish, you go through all sorts of intense emotions, panic even, try to cling to it no matter the personal consequences to yourself...you make bad choices and could set yourself up in a situation that really isn't suitable for you...all based on the fear that you're never again going to get your desire again.

The reality is though, the old adage is true, "there are plenty of fish in the sea".

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Total Confusion - 12/17/2006 3:18:19 PM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline 		Inner,

I get the impression that you had already decided to end the relationship before you posted here.  It's fine if you want to end it, and most people don't consider cyber romances to merit monogamy. 

I'm also originally from Michigan, and there are several clubs and munch groups scattered throughout the state (notably in Grand Rapids, Detroit, Kalamazoo, and Mt Pleasant  that I knew of, though I'm sure there are several others.)  I strongly advise you to visit at least one of these groups a couple times and see what they are like.  There's nothing wrong with meeting people online, but considering your luck with the last one, maybe you should try a different route.


_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to LokisBrat)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Total Confusion - 12/17/2006 3:53:22 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MmakeMme

You've been chatting with her and talk with her on the phone for years, and she just now told you that she has two lovers and you will be denied sex?

Wow.

Talk about a complete disrespect of your trust. What you do with it is up to you, of course, but I'd be pissed, Pal. And hurt.


Ya know...either this dude is pulling our chain, or he needs to go back to the 2nd grade and hope for a shot at a diploma.

You spoke to her "for years"....and this is news to you?

Come on dude...lemme load that pipe for you...



_____________________________

Small deeds will always mean more than large intentions.

(in reply to MmakeMme)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Total Confusion - 12/17/2006 4:00:16 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: innerslave
I was knocked off my chair by this revelation, I always thought that the only difference between BDSM and vanilla was that two partners have a different sexuality than vanilla people and that they like to role play once in a while.

I really like this woman, but I do not think it is right for her to have lovers. What do you think? Should I dump her and move on. That is what I want to do, but at the same time, we seem to agree on everything else and my feelings for her are very powerful.

Please, what should I do?
Did this ever happen to one of you?

Innerslave


Even though you've been talking for years it reads like you really didn't cover some very important information.

Poly, monogamous, swinging, or cheating -- these thing that be connected to BDSM but they don't have to be connected in any particular way.

If you want monogamy then obviously this isn't the relationship for you. Same if you want sex, right? You really can't just go along with things when the differences are so intimate otherwise you are just preparing for a failed relationship down the line.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to innerslave)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Total Confusion - 12/17/2006 5:29:10 PM   
innerslave


Posts: 2
Joined: 12/13/2006
Status: offline 		Hello Again!

Thanks for all your support. In reply to LTRsubMW, It does not mean that because I spoke on the phone and chatted for years (two) that I am not new to the lifestyle. At my age, two years is new. Also, I have not lived BDSM in real time, so that makes me a rookie I suppose. I did not make a decision yet, my feelings for her are very strong, it will not be easy for me to move on.

Innerslave 

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Total Confusion - 12/18/2006 3:05:27 AM   
theGuideGoddess


Posts: 135
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline 		The position that you describe yourself in is difficult emotionally to say the least.  Intellectually it should be a no brainer.  It is great assumptions on our parts to think that any form of proper negotiations have taken place.  We may then assume that they have and therefore the other party is very unscrupulous to say the least.  If you are a person of integrity who has been honest and open in your needs then your rights to know these important details are a breach of trust on her part.
I won’t try to define slavery for so many have such different perspectives.  That definition is up to the individuals involved in the relationship, not the rest of the world.  Sex is not always a part of that definition.  Giving the other party the benefit of the doubt would mean that their definition of a slave did not include sexual interaction between Domme and slave.  I have noted that miscommunications often start with us believing that we are being clear when in fact the communication is far from accurate due to the other person’s definitions and thoughts.  Further, she may or may not be serious about you never having sex.  She could possibly be testing you.
As for developing a relationship on line, that takes a huge leap of faith.  It takes faith that the other party is being open and entirely honest.   I would highly recommend that a real life meeting take place as soon as possible always for anyone considering laying the foundations of a relationship upon communications through the internet.  I would not completely discount that a very solid relationship could be built on line, for it can happen, has happened and will continue to happen.  Unfortunately some people have more time than consideration or integrity and choose to use the internet for their personal playground of abuse.  This does not mean that all people who are on the internet lack integrity, for I have met some fine, outstanding and upstanding individuals here.   Fantasy often plays out quite differently in our minds than it does in reality.  Sometimes fantasy, when adored and nurtured becomes a burning need to be our reality.  As for the slave desire burning in your heart this could play out to be everything you imagined or nothing you imagined depending upon whom you choose to ultimately take a relationship real time.  Slavery from a distance is nothing more than in our minds. 
Innerslave, you have some serious introspection to do. 
1.  You must take some time to analyze your definition of slavery.  For you that is the only definition that matters, but it is very important that you share that definition with any potential relationship.  I would also suggest that you ask potentials to provide you with their definition.  Delving deeply into all of the aspects that each believes might be a part of that relationship.  Such a seemingly inane and simple task really does clarify some very important foundations. 
2.  You must decide if sex is important to you.  For some it is something that we believe we can not live without.  For others it is completely unimportant, with all forms of variation between the two.
3.  You must consider the strong potential that someone whom you were building a relationship with for several years (provided they also felt they were building a relationship with you) and would fail to share such important details for YEARS with you may well have other unspoken important details. 
4.  Where do these important new details leave you in your future ability to trust this person?
5.  Do not imagine that you can live without something that you feel is a need just because of the love that you feel for someone.  Love conquers a lot but it does not conquer all.

Endings are always sad and usually difficult.  But new beginnings are always filled with excitement.  It is true that there are plenty of fish out there.  If you decide that you would not be happy in a relationship without sex then this is not the relationship for you.  If you decide that you would not be happy sharing the woman that you love with others whom she may wish to share herself with then this is not the relationship for you.  But the only one who can decide the acceptability and rightness of this for you is you.

The Guiding Goddess
Be well, stay safe and grow slave. 

< Message edited by theGuideGoddess -- 12/18/2006 3:14:46 AM >

(in reply to innerslave)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Total Confusion - 12/18/2006 5:25:54 AM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: theGuideGoddess


Hi.

quote:

The position that you describe yourself in is difficult emotionally to say the least.  Intellectually it should be a no brainer.  It is great assumptions on our parts to think that any form of proper negotiations have taken place.  We may then assume that they have and therefore the other party is very unscrupulous to say the least.  If you are a person of integrity who has been honest and open in your needs then your rights to know these important details are a breach of trust on her part.


Yup.  We, the peanut gallery, never really know the whole story.

quote:

I won’t try to define slavery for so many have such different perspectives.  That definition is up to the individuals involved in the relationship, not the rest of the world.  Sex is not always a part of that definition.  Giving the other party the benefit of the doubt would mean that their definition of a slave did not include sexual interaction between Domme and slave.  I have noted that miscommunications often start with us believing that we are being clear when in fact the communication is far from accurate due to the other person’s definitions and thoughts.


Which is why the vast majority of relationship problems are rooted in miscommunication.  If the relationship has existed solely in a virtual setting for a number of years (as he tells us) than odds are the communication has never been very good.

quote:

Further, she may or may not be serious about you never having sex.  She could possibly be testing you.
As for developing a relationship on line, that takes a huge leap of faith. 


Or she enjoys stringing dozens of men along as a bored housewife. 

Seriously, your suggestion that this may be a test is even more of a reason this guy should move on.  Where you see 'test' I see 'propensity to string someone I claim to love (assuming this wasn't simply a service oriented relationship of course) along, only to tear his heart out from the inside knowing she'd let him.  She shoulda known better.

I figure that falling in love is a great enough leap of faith.  Trying to do it on the internet is like bunjee jumping in the Grand Canyon. 

Sure, great people can be met here - or we wouldn't come.  The problem is a 'solid' internet relationship will not necessarily transfer well into a 'solid' offline relationship, just as people who date don't always end up happy housemates.

Stephan

_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to theGuideGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Total Confusion - 12/18/2006 8:24:35 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		Nothing much original to offer but to stress some points already made.

Never get emotionally involved before physically meeting.
A relationship with no sex is not unheard of, a relationship that is not monogamous is not unheard of, but not to mention one of these things let alone both this far down the road is really horrific on her part. I am wondering if this is her way to prevent this from happening?

One of the benefits people often attribute to living in this type of life is the ability to explore living more outside society’s norms in many areas. Assigning right or wrong to your own values is not a wise thing to do. Finding someone who is compatible with your values is.


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to Voltare)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Total Confusion - 12/18/2006 8:59:11 AM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: innerslave

Hello Again!

Thanks for all your support. In reply to LTRsubMW, It does not mean that because I spoke on the phone and chatted for years (two) that I am not new to the lifestyle. At my age, two years is new. Also, I have not lived BDSM in real time, so that makes me a rookie I suppose. I did not make a decision yet, my feelings for her are very strong, it will not be easy for me to move on.

Innerslave 

Hi There,
I think with you being new it ws her responsibility to tell you she was considering if you guys moved to real time face to face relations that she did not want to have sex with you ever.
It may have been you two were initially not looking to move to real time till some recient development.
I'd say decide if you can be with someone that sleeps with someone else first. If you agree as long as you got your sexual time that you could handle her seeing others then discuss with her you'd only be able to do it if indeed she could desire you sexually also
If you can't get past sharing her I really doubt she'll stop seeing her other friends, or if she does that it may cause her to cheat, or bring you guys back to her wanting others later if that's how she operated most of her life as a Dom.
To expect her to change for you would be no better than you denying your needs for her.
If she matters so much to you that you'd go against what you feel in your gut about this, than at least if she will not want sexual relations then you'd have to discuss if she'd still train you and allow you to find your sexual fulfillment elsewhere.
My advice is a Mistress/ Master slave/sub is much like a pair of shoes. If they look so good you'd wear them even if they pinch you then eventually they will leave you sore and limping.
Find shoes that fit.
suzanne

(in reply to innerslave)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Total Confusion - 12/19/2006 1:46:00 AM   
ramboslave


Posts: 3
Joined: 12/18/2006
Status: offline 		Innerslave.

It does not seem to me that you have been played. You say that you wanted to be a slave since the age of 10. Perhaps this woman that you love, only considered you as a slave and not a lover. Thi is certainly the way you must of approached her, since that was what you were looking for. She has probably been building other kinds of relationships with others. So, really, she is only giving you what you want. Maybe you forgot to discuss this with her. I would suggest that you forget about the sex. You say you love her. Than go on forward, forget about sex and be a good slave to her.

rambo 

(in reply to onestandingstill)
Profile   Post #: 20
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