RE: Orgasm denial

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mnottertail -> RE: Orgasm denial (12/19/2006 8:04:11 PM)
In ages hence, and in the discussions that may ensue in the rarified atmosphereof those times, no doubt will be impugned to who was in charge of the bobsled team there. But I don't think that these are the type of life changing concepts that can be forwarded without the dark mirror of aeons of history behind them. Benjamin D'Isreali

Noah -> RE: Orgasm denial (12/19/2006 8:04:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst ... And lol.. about half the doms immediately said; "It is about control! How is it submission if we are giving you orgasms for YOUR pleasure? If you enjoy it, it isn't submission." They were all dorks. quote: Well.. I have done plenty I didn't particularly enjoy because I was with someone who made me mindnumbingly happy in other areas. And.. actually, doing those things, even though they were not enjoyable.. became enjoyable because I really needed to please that guy who brought me such physical relief. Ah. Life's rich tapestry. I almost pity people who, unlike you, imagine that when presented with two contradictory claims they need to declare at least one of them untrue. You, as the kids like to say, go. Furthermore, it is your birthday. quote: I have to wonder if there is a need to control orgasms because they have so much fear of unabandoned sexuality. What are your thoughts? ... Okay. I know it is just a figure of speech to say "I have to wonder" but I think it is worth reminding you that you needn't wonder at all. In the first place, that someone decides to engage in this seems to me to be no suggestion whatsoever that they "need" to. Just as the fact that you usually take the same way home from work does not prove, show, or even indicate in some vague way that you need to. So often here, when one writer is discussing a choice by another person--a choice of which the writer disapproves, this "need" language is slipped in. "My Master likes to (blank). Does anyone else's Master like to (blank.)" "(Blank)ing is evil and horrid and not even tax-deductable. Anyone who feels the NEED to (blank) is evil and horrid and pays too much in taxes." In some way that you just haven't thought of yet, orgasm denial may lead, for this couple, to sexuality of such wild abandon that it would make your head spin. But what is your first thought? That they are sexually repressed. A very old book says somewhere: "We see the world not as it is, but as we are." This whole business points to another trend I see here. When a writer is discussing a practice they don't understand, that writer will so often play this attributing motivations game, yes. But moreover--and this is the really consistent bit--it is as rare as hen's teeth for them to ever attribute some sort of laudable motivation. If someone does this thing I don't get, it must be because of (this or that failing, lack, deficiency, etc.) Since these conversations start on a note of "I don't understand this phenomenon," how is it that they so often proceed to psychological attributions? I Mean isn't it hard enough to make reliable psychological attributions about people you know, doing things you understand? But so many writers discussing things they freely admit they are clueless about, seem to feel nevertheless qualified to pontificate about the motivation for the behavior even though they don't understand the utility, meaning, or value of the behavior itself. I just kind of think it would be a much more appropriate thing, to wonder about the activity itself, and maybe explore it, or the idea of it, for a while, before bothering to think a single thought about what may lie deep in the psyche of some stranger, or hypothetical person who might choose (or, yes perhaps) need to engage in whatever sort of behavior is in question.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Orgasm denial (12/19/2006 8:06:13 PM)
Now and then Ron says something that makes me wonder where he buys his shit. Whoever it is, I need to get that fucker's cell number. quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail In ages hence, and in the discussions that may ensue in the rarified atmosphereof those times, no doubt will be impugned to who was in charge of the bobsled team there. But I don't think that these are the type of life changing concepts that can be forwarded without the dark mirror of aeons of history behind them. Benjamin D'Isreali

Missokyst -> RE: Orgasm denial (12/19/2006 8:24:45 PM)
I'm with you there LA. I was voluntarily celibate at various times in my life (including the absense of self pleasure), and when I did get back into sex, it was't a huge relief. It was just.. eh. But when I retrain myself mentally to relish every roll of pleasure, the build time is shorter, the orgasm is longer, and my relaxation and happiness is secure. I guess this orgasm thing is yet another measure of compatibility. I am afraid I would lose interest in someone who practiced orgasm denial. Kyst

ownedgirlie -> RE: Orgasm denial (12/19/2006 8:29:16 PM)
What a great post, Noah.

Missokyst -> RE: Orgasm denial (12/19/2006 8:29:50 PM)
That is an interesting point. I have often wondered how many women actually experience orgasm. I know more than a few who have them sparingly, and one, who cried for hours after having a great one because it was the first time she felt anything like that. She was 45. I do think orgasm is one of those things that are a shade of color. Without a reference point, you really don't know what you have. Kyst quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong but a full blown orgasm? I seriously doubt that. But what is considered an orgasm to one...is nothing to another.

Missokyst -> RE: Orgasm denial (12/19/2006 8:52:12 PM)
[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m21.gif[/image] Oddly, I believe that even if I do not understand something from my own life reference point, that there are those that will get something from it. For instance, some people do not like chocolate. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m23.gif[/image] I really cannot relate to this! I love chocolate. But I know that other people are not chocofiles. I know it, I just can't relate to it. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m9.gif[/image] And yet.. here I have stated that I LOVE chocolate and can't understand why some people don't. I can even say, they might be deficient in some way because they don't appreciate the value of chocolate. Or I could say it may be an allergic reaction. There are a variety of things I could insert here as an indication of my own personal bent on this subject. I have stated an opinion. I am not of the PC class that feels the need to justify every statement I make with qualifications. (IE. I am one of a group of people who gets and emotional pat on the head when ingesting cocoa. There are people in the middle here who like chocolate at certain times of the month. And those people over there who dislike chocolate) I assume that most people realise we all have opinions and each thing posted is their own opinion to which they are so entitled. It may be pontification as you pointed out.. However, I believe we are all entited to a viewpoint, no matter if we agree or not. Life would be very dull if we suddenly all became so concerned with how someone might view us that we feared saying what was on our mind. And dull... I am not. Kyst quote: ORIGINAL: Noah I just kind of think it would be a much more appropriate thing, to wonder about the activity itself, and maybe explore it, or the idea of it, for a while, before bothering to think a single thought about what may lie deep in the psyche of some stranger, or hypothetical person who might choose (or, yes perhaps) need to engage in whatever sort of behavior is in question.

Noah -> RE: Orgasm denial (12/19/2006 9:33:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst I believe we are all entited to a viewpoint, no matter if we agree or not. I'll take that as your expression of gratitude for my having expressed mine. quote: Life would be very dull if we suddenly all became so concerned with how someone might view us that we feared saying what was on our mind. And dull... I am not. Kyst I don't reccomend careful, clear thinking because it impresses people. Oddly, I find that it has inherent value. From my viewpoint, Kyst, dull is in the eye of the beholder. Also from my viewpoint, a preference for seeking incisive questions to ask in an open hearted way, as opposed to propounding unfounded negative theories about people I don't even know because they happen to like something I don't understand, well that's just another one of the joys of being such a politically correct motherfucker, I guess. In any event, before you climbed into your defensiveness I hope you took a minute to appreciate the very sincere compliment I offered you in the second paragraph of my previous post. I found the snippet of yours on which I was commenting there to be deeply incisive. It illustrates an insight which I think a lot of submissives suffer for the lack of, and I thank you for sharing it.

marieToo -> RE: Orgasm denial (12/19/2006 9:41:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail but you are intrigued with it you big titted bitch, check yourself, you're wet. LOL, Nostradamus Ha! I was hoping they hadn't noticed. I can't pull one over on you, big guy! :)

aSlavesLife -> RE: Orgasm denial (12/19/2006 10:23:15 PM)
my owner and i practice orgasm denial and control. i am on my 13th day of denial but i am brought to the brink of orgasm repeatedly throughout the day and night by all different tactics. what my owners primary goal is to have me dripping wet on a constant basis which denial does do besides making me completely needy for his touch at all times. i find myself more and more addicted to him as a result from the denials too. as for control, well when i am given permission to cum, a date he knows but i never do, it's not just once but an on going affair that ends when he says it does. so that could be a full day or night of many orgasms until i'm raw and sore. my denials from what he has shared with me will last for a few months at a time. probably about every 3 months i will be given permission to cum but who knows it could be longer. as for liking the denial and control, well i wouldn't want it any other way. the more control he has over me the more i thrive and feel free. -Lara Not sure what to add to what my precious little toy has written, but I'll try. The control aspect of orgasm denial is a major piece of it for me. I enjoy control quite a lot, and the state of near orgasm creates a very susceptible condition in her which I exploit. This is the primary reason I practice orgasm denial on her. In her near orgasmic state I am able to condition her through implanting suggestions. Her endorphins are pumped up during this state, allowing suggestions to work sort of along Pavlovian lines as she relates what she is hearing to heightened sexual arousal. It is pretty much a multi purpose tool, because not only does it allow for mental conditioning, but it has the side effect of keeping her in a lightly aroused state constantly. Careful use of suggestion along with this also causes her to become more mentally dependent on me. Sort of like a drug addiction. And what kind of an evil villian would I be if part of this conditioning was not to remove her ability to orgasm without permission? Sure " leakage " is a little bit of a problem, but it also amuses me to find spots where she has dripped. And lets not forget that glazed, blissful look in her eyes. My goal in not to create a mindless drone, but rather to direct my slaves way of thinking in a way that grants me far more control in a far more extensive and durable manner than the brief and directionless ' control ' gained by withholding an orgasm from someone for minutes or hours. And since it is past midnight, her days without orgasm are currently 14, not 13. If anyone is interested in this, I update the journal of our joint profile frequently to document any progress I have made with conditioning as well as to keep track of how many days she is sans orgasm.

SusanofO -> RE: Orgasm denial (12/20/2006 2:46:50 AM)
I am embarrassed to get too personal, here, but since this is the topic, I tought I'd share my personal thoughts (and in case anyone is wondering, it is pretty difficult to share thoughts this personal. But the topic is dear to my heart, so I am biting the bullet) - Orgasm denial can bring a person to such a state of sexual tension that when they do (eventually) get to have sex, it really can be a mind-blowingly gratifying experience. I am not sure how mine (orgasms) would rate on some objective scale, but they've made me pretty happy when I've been exposed to this experience. Orgasm control (vs. orgasm denial) is just plain sexy (my opinion only. Although I get the feeling many do share it). It's something that can make me feel ultra-submissive. It's just so wonderful. It's like being transported to another planet. Like almost nothing else. Well, actually it's almost all pretty good, but for me, this is pretty special. On a scale of 1-10, it's an 8, at least. As far as being "trained" to come on command - I don't particularly like the word "train", but - I can only imagine how wonderful it would feel to be intimate enough with someone who has cared about one enough (who felt able to teach one) so that a mere word(s) from that person would elicit one of the most powerful sexual-emotional forces that can be wrought from another human being. How intimate and powerful is that? How lovely. How wonderful a gift to be able to give someone (Oops. There's that gift word again. Wrong thread. But - it is close to Christmas. Please forgive me). - Susan

eyesopened -> RE: Orgasm denial (12/20/2006 3:13:39 AM)
As a person who is multi-orgasmic i have found orgasm denial to be repression of my natural state. Let me try to say this another way, when repressing the need to orgasm, my body and mind get trained to NOT have an orgasm. To then be told to have one, days or weeks later, it takes a lot of time to get to where i can orgasm. i don't think this is unusual because i have met many men who can remain erect for hours and have told me they can no longer cum from sex and only from masturbation. i think one can be "trained" too well so that the learned state of repression becomes the norm. Now this may be different for people in relationships where they know in the back of their minds that release will be granted soon but i would not want to be denied for an indefinate span of time.

SusanofO -> RE: Orgasm denial (12/20/2006 3:19:10 AM)
Well, I've only done it a few times (maybe three or four...I can't remember the exact number, to be honest, even though you'd think I would - it was memorably good for me). With only several hours (6-8) before I was allowed release (and one time, a couple of days). But, it wasn't an habitual thing with any particular goal in mind by my (ha!) "oppressor". I didn't have a problem with what you describe, but can imagine that might happen for some exposed to this practice over long periods. That might be an extra cruel thing to do to someone if it is going to cause semi-permanent (or permanent) damage (any damage that would be very difficult to un-do in terms of allowing them to orgasm freely, at will, again in the future). But this particular reaction seems like it could be the kind of thing that may vary from one person to another, maybe (I wonder if there is any research on it, somewhere)? - Susan

LotusSong -> RE: Orgasm denial (12/20/2006 4:09:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong I'd be way out of sight... comanding him through his bluetooth. Actually, I don't believe ANYone can "cum on command" in that sort of venue. They might get a twitch of the clit from master's voice.. but a full blown orgasm? I seriously doubt that. But what is considered an orgasm to one...is nothing to another. Nah.. just isn't the same :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1_BTILaXeI HOWEVER, if your femsub resembles this.. you just might have a faker :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARp4y07fkx0

zbabe888 -> RE: Orgasm denial (12/20/2006 12:53:10 PM)
Again, I have been fanscinated by the opinions of everyone. As far as orgasm control I think it is an amazing tool to use in the arsenal of being controled by your Dom. Until 6 months ago that was all that I knew. Now I understand "orgasm on command". And I can CERTAINLY understand why people are not apt to accept the reality of this unicorn - I wouldn't have before myself. And oddly it started with him immediately - he commanded and I came. And, YES, these are real orgasms. And, Yes, I will have them as often as he decides, sometimes 15 in an evening. And, Yes, if he keeps commanding I just keep orgasming - until I beg for a break to recover. I was NEVER multi-orgasmic before. I was mid-20's before a man got me to the magic place. I can't explain it - but it is real. Physical, spasming, sometimes screaming. Heck, this WHOLE BDSM thing is in the head - so makes sense if you're head is in the right place. I think the best way to describe for me is that it is a "Perfect Storm". All the elements came together at the same time and now whether I am shopping or talking to my boss - if I am commanded I cum. In discreet situations they are like low hummms but still very real.

Missokyst -> RE: Orgasm denial (12/20/2006 2:11:24 PM)
Initially I thought that being without orgasms would make the next one I had huge! Like a treat unlike anything I had experienced before. But for me orgasm denial just makes me shove my sexual nature to the back, DEEP back where retrieval is nearly impossible. I used to say that when I had an orgasm it would be such a cosmic change that, that is when California would have the big one. Alas.. when I got back into sex it took me months to be able to get that level of passion back into my range of sensation. Now.. Orgasm control when someone in my past was pumping into me and he demanded I not orgasm despite the overwhelming buildup of whoooooopeeeee's inside me is interesting. I can recall times when He made me hold it in until he came and he brought it out of me by slapping me hard and telling me it was ok to cum now. whewie. LOL.. my nips just got hard thinking of that. Control when it comes with a reward is lovely. Denial for the sake of building up to greater things just does not work for me. This is where finding that compatible partner is absolutely imperitive! Kyst quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO Orgasm denial can bring a person to such a state of sexual tension that when they do (eventually) get to have sex, it really can be a mind-blowingly gratifying experience. I am not sure how mine (orgasms) would rate on some objective scale, but they've made me pretty happy when I've been exposed to this experience. Orgasm control (vs. orgasm denial) is just plain sexy (my opinion only. Although I get the feeling many do share it). It's something that can make me feel ultra-submissive. It's just so wonderful. It's like being transported to another planet. Like almost nothing else. Well, actually it's almost all pretty good, but for me, this is pretty special. On a scale of 1-10, it's an 8, at least. - Susan

LotusSong -> RE: Orgasm denial (12/20/2006 2:59:50 PM)
I played with denial once... I brought Slave up to almost coming twice then backed off.. when I brought him up a third time..he wasn't as hard.. and just as I was going to back off.. he gave me a "don't you DARE" look! LOL So once is hot.. two is worrisome.. 3 gets you a threat ;) As you can see, I'm still alive. (but it was a close call)

Noah -> RE: Orgasm denial (12/20/2006 4:29:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail but you are intrigued with it you big titted bitch, check yourself, you're wet. LOL, Nostradamus Ha! I was hoping they hadn't noticed. I can't pull one over on you, big guy! :) Oh I'll bet he'd let you pull both of them over on him if you asked nicely.

BalletBob -> RE: Orgasm denial (12/20/2006 7:26:52 PM)
OUCH LotusSong. I would rather wear a Depends, if I had a Mistress that would make me cum outside. I am not even sure if I could cum on command anyway, but love it when I am denied the chance to "Workout" my Little Boy. Misbehaving Sub, BalletBob

marieToo -> RE: Orgasm denial (12/20/2006 9:08:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Noah quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail but you are intrigued with it you big titted bitch, check yourself, you're wet. LOL, Nostradamus Ha! I was hoping they hadn't noticed. I can't pull one over on you, big guy! :) Oh I'll bet he'd let you pull both of them over on him if you asked nicely. I was told I'd have to wait in line.

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