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RE: for you wonderful couples out there.... - 12/20/2006 7:05:51 PM   
Littlepita


Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline 		We often discuss this. I will tell him how he saved my life and does so much for me. He then turns and says how I saved his life and how I do so much for him. All that matters is that we are together and it only keeps getting better.

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

(in reply to darksdesire)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: for you wonderful couples out there.... - 12/20/2006 8:09:44 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah the economic talk, besides that, actually strikes me as distasteful, demeaning, even, as a rule, though I suppose the rule might have exceptions.

I hope a little bit of commenting on the question, in lieu of answering it, isn't taken amiss, crouchingT. I have been enjoying your posts a lot lately, and I don't mean enjoying them just aesthetically. Beyond that, I'm grateful for a range of insights you have shared and impressed by the evident care with which you consider the questions and comments of others.


not at all Noah, i always like your unique perspectives, and this is one of those times, because i had not even entertained the notion of my question relating to a economics or ambalance sheet.
 
for me the word, deal, was synonymous with kit-and-caboodle, the whole enchilada that sort of thing. i agree whole heartedly about the folly of keeping a tally sheet of who does what and when...nothing will kill my natural giving more then having an implied obligation to do so.
 
quote:

   I have been enjoying your posts a lot lately, and I don't mean enjoying them just aesthetically. Beyond that, I'm grateful for a range of insights you have shared and impressed by the evident care with which you consider the questions and comments of others.

 
thank you Noah, that means a lot coming from you, glad i am winning you over...
 
This was a passing idle thought, i was just curious about every ones perspectives...and... it was sort of a slow post day....

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: for you wonderful couples out there.... - 12/20/2006 8:47:03 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

I just don't see relationships in terms like that generally. I guess I would include consideration of who got the better deal under a broad heading with the word Economic somewhere in it's title.

Sometimes the economic relationship talk involves explicitly economic terms, like "better deal" or "investment." Most often these conversations seem to be kindled around the word "fairness" (or "unfairness") and involve what seems to me to be a quasi-economic analysis of a relationship: who is putting what in; who is taking what out. It all seems to presume that some sort of balance sheet is an appropriate tool for relationship analysis. To me a balance sheet seems no more helpful in viewing a relationship than it would be in listening to music, say, or in riding a bike.


Noah, maybe it will sit with you better if You consider the mind-set behind it.  It just implies they feel challenged to show themselves worthy of all they are thankful for in their partner, maybe? 

Saying "I think I have a really good deal here"  is also saying "I'm determined to not mess this up".   It's saying "I'm happy" "I'm grateful." "I love my partner."  All those things that You would accept easily in Your way of looking at relationships, i think.

but then, i read a LOT into those little one liners.  <grins>

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: for you wonderful couples out there.... - 12/20/2006 9:05:43 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I think it's a good relationship when both people feel very alive, cracklin w/spirit! (more than they did before they met eachother). Of course every relationship has its peaceful, quiet times, and those times of closeness and peace are just comforting as well.

And  I think it's a good relationship if they really care (a lot) about what happens to the other person. Regardless of whether they are submissive or Dominant, they feel secure when they think of, or are with, the other person - most of the time (of course I am ruling out scenes here where that might not be the goal at all).

When they see eachother's fabulous character traits, and appreciate them as unique to the other - but also know that the other may have one or two not so fabulous traits, but they accept that (and can live with that). This does not rule out a Dominant trying to help a submissive "improve" some trait, of course. I mean generally, they accept eachother, and aren't always making the other person wish they were someone else, instead. They give eachother compliments, perhaps.They emphasize the positive, de-emphasize (or help them work on, if submissive) the negative.

They remind eachother how special the other really is. It is amazing how people can live up (or down) to one's expectations(I think so anyway. I really believe this. I've seen it happen).

And they can teach eachother things they've never learned before, perhaps - and then they expand eachother's world. If you already know everything, how much fun is that?

And they are kind to eachother (within the bounds of their kinks, which means they actually generally agree to things like MF-ks if they are going to happen, etc.). And they can count on eachother to be like a really true good friend.

Hot, burning and sparkling romance along with some romantic gestures doesn't hurt, either. I mean, if there's little "spark", then it can get flat, like a bad can of soda pop (but - I believe it's gonna fizzle anyway, if some of the above ingredients are not present as well). But ignoring the romance is a recipe for heartbreak, I think.

**In reference to what crounchingtigress said: I remember asking my mom and dad one time (they were both in the same room when I asked the question) - "Which one of you is the smarter one, mom or dad?"

My dad, without missing a beat, said: "Your mother".
Then my mother (without missing a beat, said to him): "Good answer, Don." 
Ha! My dad is brilliant, and by no means would I consider him "submissive" in any way, shape or form (but male subnmissiveness is fine, of course. Some of my good friends are...). But - he just knew which side his toast was buttered on (now that really is smart)! I just thought it was so funny (my mom was being facetious. She was always  doing that).

Hmmm. I actually am not sure which one of them is (was) smarter. I think they were both about the same, in different ways. My dad is (was) just a little quieter about it, maybe (of course nobody on God's green Earth ever talked more than my mother, I swear).

-Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/20/2006 9:51:24 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: for you wonderful couples out there.... - 12/20/2006 9:08:58 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline 		I definetely got the better deal.

(At least that's what all the attorneys told me).

_____________________________

Small deeds will always mean more than large intentions.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: for you wonderful couples out there.... - 12/20/2006 9:42:03 PM   
PiercedHeart


Posts: 9
Joined: 7/19/2006
Status: offline 		Synergy...the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts...when you both get more than you put in, you've got a hot fire burning in between you!
I have a very dear slave and I'm proud of her!!!


(in reply to crouchingtigress)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: for you wonderful couples out there.... - 12/20/2006 10:03:15 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		PiercedHeart, yeppers. The relationship takes on a power of its own. No winners, just the way it is.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to PiercedHeart)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: for you wonderful couples out there.... - 12/20/2006 10:08:52 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		When you feel unconditionally accepted by the other person. When they make you want to be a better person (even if you are pretty good to begin with), because their acceptance is such a powerful motivator, the thought of diappointing them physically almost hurts. 

The above might apply more to submissives than Dominants, but maybe in some cases, it applies to Dominants, too (I don't know).

When you want good thing for them, and are very concerned with their welfare and happiness, and the other person knows that, and trusts it.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/20/2006 10:12:10 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: for you wonderful couples out there.... - 12/20/2006 10:15:53 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		Yes, when you make the person feel that you care about her/him magic stuff starts to happen.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: for you wonderful couples out there.... - 12/20/2006 10:28:31 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Frankly, I figured out (for me anyway) that one reason I might be attracted to D/s relationships (good ones) is because it is just so nice to have another person be interested enough in getting to know you well enough to be able to Dominate your heart and mind. 
I mean, how flattering and caring is that?

- Susan 

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: for you wonderful couples out there.... - 12/20/2006 11:13:43 PM   
ZenDragoness


Posts: 372
Joined: 1/21/2006
From: Berlin/Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

For me it's not one person having it better in the relationship.  It changes, depending on what's happening in the relationship and what's happening in life, in general.  Sometimes I think my Dom has it good, and sometimes I'm in an appreciation mode and understand how good I have it.


I feel exactly the same, so  no need to try to write it again (and surely longer) and i am sure that my beloved would hold the same point of view. And somebody mentionend the Synergy effect, this is an ongoing feeling for us. A good friend said years ago: You two have one face.


_____________________________

aka Morgaine289

http://goldenerkern.blogspot.com/

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: for you wonderful couples out there.... - 12/21/2006 3:07:59 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		He says we're perfect together. That's pretty much how I see it too.

I just say "we fit."

juliet

(in reply to darksdesire)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: for you wonderful couples out there.... - 12/21/2006 3:11:33 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Angel believes I got the better deal, he is still in his I dont know that I can be everything you want phase.  I just wish he could understand that he already is.
We are quite happy, and wil be happier once we are not LD anymore.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to darksdesire)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: for you wonderful couples out there.... - 12/21/2006 5:32:37 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Slave asked me once what I "saw in him". I told him to look at his eyes in the mirror and think of me.. THAT'S what I "see" in him :)
 
Actually, I never thought of it in terms of who got the better deal..we got the same deal :)
 
 
What is that saying? Love is not looking at each other, but looking in the same direction..

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to crouchingtigress)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: for you wonderful couples out there.... - 12/21/2006 9:03:22 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		It's really easy to measure how much this relationship benefits me because it's rather obvious......I could wax lyrical about it endlessly.

It's not so easy to see what he gains from it and I don't ask very often, either.

I certainly couldn't envisage a conversation where he declared that he got more from it than I do. 

I suppose the way I'd look at it,( without a great deal of thought), is that my life would be affected far more without HIM in it, than his would be without ME in it.

agirl





(in reply to crouchingtigress)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: for you wonderful couples out there.... - 12/21/2006 10:54:09 AM   
pixelslave


Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

When they see eachother's fabulous character traits, and appreciate them as unique to the other - but also know that the other may have one or two not so fabulous traits, but they accept that (and can live with that). This does not rule out a Dominant trying to help a submissive "improve" some trait, of course. I mean generally, they accept eachother, and aren't always making the other person wish they were someone else, instead. They give eachother compliments, perhaps.They emphasize the positive, de-emphasize (or help them work on, if submissive) the negative.

They remind eachother how special the other really is. It is amazing how people can live up (or down) to one's expectations(I think so anyway. I really believe this. I've seen it happen).



Susan,
I cannot agree with you enough on this point.  Constantly telling or reminding the other of their faults or deficiencies (whether real or not) is incredibly damaging to their self esteem, not to mention being abusive in general.

When one hears enough times that they can't do something "right", eventually they quit trying at all.


quote:



Hot, burning and sparkling romance along with some romantic gestures doesn't hurt, either. I mean, if there's little "spark", then it can get flat, like a bad can of soda pop (but - I believe it's gonna fizzle anyway, if some of the above ingredients are not present as well). But ignoring the romance is a recipe for heartbreak, I think.



My Ex-Mistress/spouse and I used to have a regular "date night" each week without the kids.  When she stopped allowing time in her schedule for that, I think that clearly delineated the beginning of the end for us.

- pixel

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: for you wonderful couples out there.... - 12/21/2006 11:00:11 AM   
xonemasterx


Posts: 59
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
Status: offline 		In thinking about a couple of past relationships, the words "Bait and Switch" came to mind.  I see them more as learning experiences for us both about what we wanted in life at the time.

I do seek that "I got a really good deal with this one" feeling.      And to inspire it in another.

(in reply to pixelslave)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: for you wonderful couples out there.... - 12/21/2006 4:53:15 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I think it's a good relationship when both people feel very alive, cracklin w/spirit! (more than they did before they met eachother). Of course every relationship has its peaceful, quiet times, and those times of closeness and peace are just comforting as well.

And  I think it's a good relationship if they really care (a lot) about what happens to the other person. Regardless of whether they are submissive or Dominant, they feel secure when they think of, or are with, the other person - most of the time (of course I am ruling out scenes here where that might not be the goal at all).

When they see eachother's fabulous character traits, and appreciate them as unique to the other - but also know that the other may have one or two not so fabulous traits, but they accept that (and can live with that). This does not rule out a Dominant trying to help a submissive "improve" some trait, of course. I mean generally, they accept eachother, and aren't always making the other person wish they were someone else, instead. They give eachother compliments, perhaps.They emphasize the positive, de-emphasize (or help them work on, if submissive) the negative.

They remind eachother how special the other really is. It is amazing how people can live up (or down) to one's expectations(I think so anyway. I really believe this. I've seen it happen).

And they can teach eachother things they've never learned before, perhaps - and then they expand eachother's world. If you already know everything, how much fun is that?

And they are kind to eachother (within the bounds of their kinks, which means they actually generally agree to things like MF-ks if they are going to happen, etc.). And they can count on each other to be like a really true good friend.



Have you been peeking into my windows? Well that isn't exactly a diagram of my primary relationship but allowing for a few key changes it comes pretty close. Except I have no idea what "MF-ks" means.

Something in your comments reminded me of a sort of crappy old poem by a girl named Violet Alleyn Story. Is that a poet-chick name, or what?

Tune me for life again, oh, quiet Musician.
- Strive to adjust my loosened thoughts until,
Made taut, they shall be yielding to Thy Fingers
- Gladly as trees to winds that touch this hill.

Rhyme me with life once more, oh, silent Poet.
- Out of my weary, fluttering heartbeats make
Cool rhythms, hushed, yet certain as the circling
- Water against the edges of this lake.

Fit me for life again, oh, patient Artist.
- Paint, on my tired soul, glad, vivid things.
Splash now, upon its dulness (sic), beauty's pigments,
- Lovely as pansie and a bluebird's wings.


First of all, she capitalized "fingers."

Now:
... quiet Musician
... silent Poet
... patient Artist?

To see the Capitalized One as a quiet musician and a silent poet, it is nice. Then violet goes haywire. And you've noticed how she just can't trust the words, or she can't trust you to read the thing, properly, without, her prodding commas. Dullness really is duller with one L, but does she really think that beauty can be a matter of pigment?

But she saw. She saw that that there is a moment when the instrument is workable though the strings are still loose. And she evinced faith in what could happen next. That's almost enough to make me forgive her for the fluttering heartbeats and shit.

Since that poem was entitled "A Prayer After An Illness" I think we can figure that she wasn't making allusions to some dom. But then again I seldom give a crap what the poet intended.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: for you wonderful couples out there.... - 12/21/2006 5:25:00 PM   
Daddysredhead


Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline 		Daddy and I have talked about this, too...  about all the nice things we find in the other. 

He found me at my most broken point in life and helped me learn to stand up and trust in people again.  He also helped me find my self-worth and my smiley, giggly side again, which had been gone for a long time.  So, I often feel that I got the better deal.  He tells me that I have given Him all He has ever looked for, and thinks that He got the better deal. 

I think that we are both lucky that we finally found one another. 

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut


(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: for you wonderful couples out there.... - 12/21/2006 5:34:13 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

...
 
for me the word, deal, was synonymous with kit-and-caboodle, the whole enchilada that sort of thing. i agree whole heartedly about the folly of keeping a tally sheet of who does what and when...nothing will kill my natural giving more then having an implied obligation to do so.
 


I think we wouldn't have to talk about this for very long before really understanding one another.

quote:

thank you Noah, ...

You're welcome, tigress


(in reply to crouchingtigress)
Profile   Post #: 40
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