Jealousy in a Submissive

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LovingKitten -> Jealousy in a Submissive (12/22/2006 5:26:10 AM)
I know it isn't supposed to be an issue/even be brought up, and I am sure this subject has been debated hundreds of times before, but I felt the need to ask. I have seen that many Dominants demand that their slaves/submissives not give into jealousy, especially when the subject of a poly lifestyle is brought up. This is my question to you though, do you not want them to be jealous so your fantasies can be fufilled without guilt, or because you don't want their emotional state to be damaged? If you have a different reason I am all ears (not much discrimination here, only those who discriminate against me for my age). I would often think (through my years of experience) that a Dominant (male or female) would enjoy the jealousy, because it would be an assurance to the place they hold in the submissives mind/heart. It may be greed to keep the person to themselves, but in many cases its out of devotion, fear, love and/or need. I understand that most believe that jealousy is a waste of energy, but its one thta has always been difficult to overcome. (thank you katylied for bringing this insight, I forgot to bring it up). Input?

KatyLied -> RE: Jealousy in a Submissive (12/22/2006 5:37:11 AM)
My opinion of poly is simply that some people are wired for it, some aren't. I don't think you can force poly on someone who is monogamous. Jealousy is a wasted emotion. A difficult one to overcome, but a waste. I would prefer a dominant who wants a strong, confident sub over one who needs to see a display jealousy as a way of showing her heart.

LovingKitten -> RE: Jealousy in a Submissive (12/22/2006 5:42:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied My opinion of poly is simply that some people are wired for it, some aren't. I don't think you can force poly on someone who is monogamous. Jealousy is a wasted emotion. A difficult one to overcome, but a waste. I would prefer a dominant who wants a strong, confident sub over one who needs to see a display jealousy as a way of showing her heart. I see where you are coming from on this one, and though I see confidence in their abilities, it still strikes me as human nature to get possesive of someone they care very deeply for, even though that is not the way it is supposed to work.

wylde -> RE: Jealousy in a Submissive (12/22/2006 5:44:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied My opinion of poly is simply that some people are wired for it, some aren't. I don't think you can force poly on someone who is monogamous. Jealousy is a wasted emotion. A difficult one to overcome, but a waste. I would prefer a dominant who wants a strong, confident sub over one who needs to see a display jealousy as a way of showing her heart. Amen :)

crouchingtigress -> RE: Jealousy in a Submissive (12/22/2006 5:46:13 AM)
wow. great question, dont ever think something should not be brought up btw, unless it clearly states dont do it in the TOS, everything is fair game...lol i dont see jealousy that way, jealousy comes from a scarcity perspective, i dont have enough, i am not enough .... and i dont think you can demand that some one not be jealous, well you can, but that only serves to shut them up and not do anything to address that fear and anxiety they are feeling...which to me is the death knell of the relationship, because those feelings dont go away, they fester, and putrifiy....and suddenly there is a shift in the energy of the dynamic....there is discord, there is mistrust, there is passive aggression, there is destruction. there is a immature premise in society that i think is echoed in your question, that folks like their partners fighting over them...and that may be true, but to enjoy the fight, like a spectator in a Roman Colosseum seems to me like there is an emotional disconnect....why would you enjoy watching the pain fear and insecuritys of two people who you love? as a dom my role is to create a space that is safe, constant and secure. this is the fertile soil my submissive can grow in....i dont want him to be in a constant state of flux or anxiety always having to one up his broth or sister...this creates disharmony in my house, which is the antithesis of why i want a slave, or more, in the first place.

BDSM05478 -> RE: Jealousy in a Submissive (12/22/2006 5:46:58 AM)
Most jealousy is prompted by insecurity, that the s will be replaced somehow someway ie mentally, emotionally, physically. Not all jealousy mind you but I think most. Now as to why I personally do not want a partner that is jealous of the dynamics of a poly relationship. Because it has not place in what we do or who we are.... what I do and feel with slave x has no bearing on what i feel or do with slave y and if they are always going to be comparing these things usually it is as a "yardstick of love" . Same on the flip side I am very secure in the dynamic that Daddy and I have, we are all apprieceated and loved for our own individual minds, hearts, talents and quirks. When He and I first got together I couldn't even imagine having to "share" him with another, yet mentally expected him to have to be ok with me having my own sub because I was selffish and insecure at the time and very new to expressing my submissive side. He is my first Master, i've been with Tops and Doms before and for me there is a difference. I was scared but with time, I found myself pushing Him to Top and Dom other girls cause I wanted them to have some of this great lovin I was getting, I wanted to share him, wanted other woman to experience what He has to offer and I found it turned me on too. Double plus! Everything we do revolves around unconditional love and acceptance, sometimes it feels like our cup is over flowing somuch how can we not want to help other people find themselves and experience all the great things this life has to offer?

LovingKitten -> RE: Jealousy in a Submissive (12/22/2006 5:54:50 AM)
To make this easier upon myself (I haven't slept in a long time) I am just going to reply this way. To BDSM05478- I can see your perspective, but I guess the point of view I am coming from here, is that in many cultures (america being prime example here), the sexual nature of a person is considered well, almost sacred. When my Master brought up the idea of having a Poly lifestyle, it not only caused me to become wary and yes, I will admit, slightly jealous, but also very angry. For a submissive/slave to save their entire sexual being for this one person, and then have that one person want to share theirs with others seemed to cause me to get more jealous and hurt more than anything else. I don't know if this is the way I was raised speaking, or just insecurity here...

KatyLied -> RE: Jealousy in a Submissive (12/22/2006 5:55:22 AM)
I agree with jealousy being prompted by insecurity. I think the best way to work on this is to remind yourself of your good qualities and what you bring to a relationship. Jealousy is ugly and I think for many people it gets tiring (both having it and expression of it). It's better to focus on what you have and what you bring than to look at what is lacking. Like I've said, it's not easy, but it can be done.

marieToo -> RE: Jealousy in a Submissive (12/22/2006 6:06:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LovingKitten I know it isn't supposed to be an issue/even be brought up, and I am sure this subject has been debated hundreds of times before, but I felt the need to ask. I have seen that many Dominants demand that their slaves/submissives not give into jealousy, especially when the subject of a poly lifestyle is brought up. This is my question to you though, do you not want them to be jealous so your fantasies can be fufilled without guilt, or because you don't want their emotional state to be damaged? If you have a different reason I am all ears (not much discrimination here, only those who discriminate against me for my age). I would often think (through my years of experience) that a Dominant (male or female) would enjoy the jealousy, because it would be an assurance to the place they hold in the submissives mind/heart. It may be greed to keep the person to themselves, but in many cases its out of devotion, fear, love and/or need. I understand that most believe that jealousy is a waste of energy, but its one thta has always been difficult to overcome. (thank you katylied for bringing this insight, I forgot to bring it up). Input? I think that some people are simply built for monogamous relationships. I dont think its a given that being in a ds relationship necessarily requires someone to compromise on what they need. I think there is nothing wrong with those who need complete monogamy from their dominant and I dont think its an inadequency on their part. Then there are others who enjoy being in a polyamorous situation and those who dont necessarily enjoy it , but who dont mind it. As far as jealousy goes, I have known dominants who love an occasional headfuck that includes seeing their submissive get jealous and they will flirt with other girls just to effect that jealous reaction in their submissive. I think thats a dangerous kink for alot of reasons, but some like to go there. As far as poly goes--To me, poly doesn't mean fucking a stranger from a club on a friday night....it means having or keeping more than one submissive. And I think this becomes a problem for alot of submissives, when they have different ideas of what poly means than their partner. I dont mind a poly situation in the least. The thought of being with a dominant who is intimate with another female besides myself is a turn on for me. I guess I just got lucky on this one; I dont think it has anything to do with being selfless, but I think alot of submissives get caught up in the belief that they need to suck it up, even if they're not built for poly. I think it's best to really know oneself on this issue and not go into it thinking you can 'change' into being a 'poly type' if you're not.

crouchingtigress -> RE: Jealousy in a Submissive (12/22/2006 6:22:13 AM)
quote: It's better to focus on what you have and what you bring than to look at what is lacking. this is fabulous advice... loving kitten ...i have to be honest and say idont understand the anger feeling....can you explain it more...?

BDSM05478 -> RE: Jealousy in a Submissive (12/22/2006 6:27:55 AM)
That is the key right there...... self knowledge. It takes alot of introspection to know which it is for you. Is it in you to love more than one person as a time? if not is it because of who you really are and what you truly believe in? or is it based in insecurities and self doubt? Fear can be alot of things, it is a great motivator, a talented destroyer and a contributor to stagnation. With out knowledge of self first and fore most how can you every truly know anything or anyone? I am not sure I totally understand the statement about the state of love, sex and jealousy in america......

BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: Jealousy in a Submissive (12/22/2006 6:58:18 AM)
Was his interest in a poly relationship something you knew from the start? Or did he just bring it up after you had been together for a while? I'd be seriously upset if something this major was sprung on me out of the blue, after the relationship had been established. [sm=mad.gif]

mstrjx -> RE: Jealousy in a Submissive (12/22/2006 6:58:27 AM)
I see the issue a little differently. Personally, I'm not the poly sorta guy. I'm not a cheating sorta guy. I have always been one who enjoyed (or at least endured) the person I was with and did not try to muddy the waters by involving others. It's too easy in emotionally-charged relationships as we create for people to get hurt. Having said that........ I have always tried to instill in subs and slaves that I've had in the past the idea that jealousy is not becoming in a person in that position. It's more about the mindset, the headspace, that the sub/slave should be in rather than the thought hanging over their head that I was going to orchestrate a three-ring circus on a whim. Other people might get involved and you need to be aware of this and behave appropriately. (It isn't going to happen.) It's a training mechanism, to me. Jeff

julietsierra -> RE: Jealousy in a Submissive (12/22/2006 7:03:11 AM)
I think that in large part, jealousy is an issue best fixed within one's own self. However, that being said, there is also a component to jealousy that can involve the other person in the relationship. Errors made, focusing so strongly on someone new that the other person feels like he or she's been cast aside...all of that lends to opening the door to the cage that houses that green eyed monster. It took a while for us to figure this dynamic out over here. I'd be fine with the idea of other people - and then...he'd focus so strongly on someone else that it didn't take long to feel very disposable. At one point, he even said "why should I focus on the one I have? I already have her." The person we're talking to now - he tried a new tact. (We'd tried a while ago with her with devastating effects. He wanted to try again.) He spent time with each of us - getting to know her again and spending quality time with me. He allowed us to have contact with each other. He kept each of us informed about what was happening and how he anticipated things would work. Neither of us made or were involved in any of the decision making process he went through, and neither of us cared to be. Both of us wanted to feel valued, not like we were being cast aside (on my part), not like we were unwanted and unwelcome (on her part), and we had the chance to work this out. What I have now is full confidence in what's happening, and I'd venture to say, a friend in the making. What she has is assurances - to the point where she says she is no longer worried - that she is welcomed - both by him and me - and she says - a friend in the making. What he has are two women who are willing and anxious for this to work, and are looking forward to just exactly that. Each of our green-eyed monsters is safely secured in its cage and however he wants to pursue this - we're moving forward. I do have to amend this to say that we had some difficulties at the beginning - not with jealousy, but becaue of some other things that could have/would have ended the growth of this relationship. She told me about them which placed me in a difficult position. In the end, she handled what she needed to do with dignity and integrity and kept me out of the loop that she was initially building for herself. Now, I think she's a lovely lady and I am SO looking forward to more. Even more than that, I hope and pray that she gets all of what she's hoping for in her life as well. juliet

onestandingstill -> RE: Jealousy in a Submissive (12/22/2006 7:03:25 AM)
Hi Loving Kitten, In the book the Ethicle Slut it says something along the lines of having the feelings of jealousy are normal in us, what you do about them and how much control you let them have on your emotional self is totally up to you. As you state some jealous pangs are felt even by emotionally open and healthy relationships. I think what you have to remember is even if your Master has ten slaves he has full contact with the time and energy he has with you will never be duplicated exactly by any other human being. No one else can replace the energy he feels with you, but the two of you. We as people each can bring some different twists to the table. As long as you don't feel he's not balancing his schedule to keep free time with you, you have to trust no one else has or could ever hold the part of his heart you have. Besides I think this society view of ownership or love being formed just because you've had sex with someone is a little neurotic myself. Why does it often have to stand for all the marbles to be intimate??? For me it's sort of like dancing. You'd dance way different with say your dad, a friend, a business associate and a lover. The emotional connections of the individual is what holds the charm not the dancing in the mechanical sense of it. You really need to do some serious soul searching and decide if you can be happy with him if he's having multi relations or not. If indeed you can't handle him having multiple partners you two need to address that soon. Leaving things to fester will just make your relationship toxic. If you think you want to give it a try I'd recommend talking openly to your Master about your thoughts and feelings as you go along. If he's a good Master he'll help you try and get to a point of acceptance without anxiety. Like everyone else said it works for some and could never work for others. No one path is more right or wrong than the other. You just have to pick the one you can walk down with a smile on your face and go for it. I'd recommend you writing down all your feelings, ideas, and opinions of this situation and then asking your Master to discuss things with you. Find the answer that feels right in your heart and good luck to you. Sincerely, suzanne

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Jealousy in a Submissive (12/22/2006 7:27:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LovingKitten I would often think (through my years of experience) that a Dominant (male or female) would enjoy the jealousy, because it would be an assurance to the place they hold in the submissives mind/heart. It may be greed to keep the person to themselves, but in many cases its out of devotion, fear, love and/or need. I understand that most believe that jealousy is a waste of energy, but its one thta has always been difficult to overcome. (thank you katylied for bringing this insight, I forgot to bring it up). Input? That's an odd way to me of looking at things. Jealousy is ultimately destructive- it shows a weakness within the structure of the relationship and within the person themselves. A person who would enjoy jealousy like that is the same sort who enjoys watching boys fight over her- it's immature and ultimately pointless towards forming a long term solid commitment. Stick with the final statement of your post and you'll be fine. http://www.collarchat.com/m_499005/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#499071 Still Need Growth http://www.collarchat.com/m_469964/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#470560 Define Jealousy http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=428635&mpage=1&key=jealousy&#428636 Jealousy and Envy http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=424827&mpage=2&key=jealousy&#425069 Jealousy (5) http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=417231&mpage=1&key=jealousy&#423661 1 master 2 subs http://www.collarchat.com/m_374948/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#377940 No green eyed monsters allowed! http://www.collarchat.com/m_351171/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#352231 The Green-Eyed Monster http://www.collarchat.com/m_289099/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#289531 The little green eyed monster http://www.collarchat.com/m_273729/mpage_2/key_jealousy/tm.htm#273795 Jealousy http://www.collarchat.com/m_233131/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#233136 Jealousy (2) http://www.collarchat.com/m_232405/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#232461 Jealousy (3) http://www.collarchat.com/m_209316/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#209381 Jealousy Issues http://www.collarchat.com/m_207541/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#207542 Jealousy (4)

LovingKitten -> RE: Jealousy in a Submissive (12/22/2006 7:28:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress quote: It's better to focus on what you have and what you bring than to look at what is lacking. this is fabulous advice... loving kitten ...i have to be honest and say idont understand the anger feeling....can you explain it more...? To be honest its a long long story I would rather not get into

LotusSong -> RE: Jealousy in a Submissive (12/22/2006 7:33:09 AM)
Hi Kitten, Ask yourself, do you find jealousy flattering when YOU are the recipient of it? A Poly situation is not MANDATORY. Some Dom/mes only want ONE. Jealousy is an attempt to control. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Mostly, it just gets tiring.

LovingKitten -> RE: Jealousy in a Submissive (12/22/2006 7:33:38 AM)
To everyone else, I really appreciate all the insight you have brought into this. I apologize for not answering each of your posts individually, at the moment I am rather sleep deprived and don't have the patience to do so. (My apologies again) As for the situation, it was brought up as a joke in the beginning, but more and more lately it has become a serious issue in our discussions. Yes, I have tried to talk with my Master about it, and we have come to an understanding of where the other lies in the situation, but at the same time we haven't come to a medium or a solution. To say that our relationship was rocky to start with and that it has gone over quite a few rough roads in the space of a little over a year I have been collared is an understatement, thus my insecurity. I do know that I am confident in my abilities, at least I know what I can do, and what I need to work on. (not claiming ANY perfection here lol) I just wanted some outside opinions on the subject.

LovingKitten -> RE: Jealousy in a Submissive (12/22/2006 7:34:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong Hi Kitten, Ask yourself, do you find jealousy flattering when YOU are the recipient of it? A Poly situation is not MANDATORY. Some Dom/mes only want ONE. Jealousy is an attempt to control. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Mostly, it just gets tiring. To be honest, occasional small bits of jealousy here and there is kind of a reassurance...but this is coming from someone who had a rather abusive relationship before this one....>< so I know I have work to do.

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