Channeling Hostility (Full Version)

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mystnangel -> Channeling Hostility (2/20/2005 8:09:01 PM)

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I've written an entirely obscure assembly of questions, and realized in that lost realm of dissembling, I wouldn't get a coherent answer unless I became more pointed and simply stated facts regardless of the embarrassment.

Can an abusive husband channel that hostility into a more positive experience by assuming his more natural role as a dominate as opposed to fighting those needs, and then exploding?

That is just one question, but more will follow. I need to make a decision, and need the advice of those wiser than I in a forum of obscurity and safety.

Thanking you in advance for your time.

mystnangel




domtimothy46176 -> RE: Channeling Hostility (2/20/2005 8:18:56 PM)

In my personal opinion, dominance is a need to control that manifests itself first within the control of self and then grows into control of one's surrounding environment and finally into the desire to control others that also inhabit one's environment. IMO, an abuser is one who strikes out in reaction to anger or frustration. The inability to control these impulses is indicative of a lack of self-control. One who cannot control one's own base impulses cannot be expected to find that control within domination of another.
I'm terribly sorry you are in this position but I'm afraid that the situation, as you paint it, won't be reconciled until your husband first learns to control himself.
Timothy




siamsa24 -> RE: Channeling Hostility (2/20/2005 8:21:36 PM)

I have sent you a personal message on the other side.




proudsub -> RE: Channeling Hostility (2/20/2005 8:31:18 PM)

deleted because after reading others' advice here i think i gave bad advice since others here are more experienced in this area.




mistoferin -> RE: Channeling Hostility (2/20/2005 8:40:47 PM)

Domination has nothing whatsoever to do with hostility or abuse. If you are in an abusive situation the bottom line is that you need to get out of it.....no matter what that entails. It will not change by attempting to reason that you can turn it into something that it is not.

I am sorry to be so blunt but I have dealt with abuse both on a personal level and also at the professional level. These things just don't change without serious intervention, and even then a long term change is very rare. My heart goes out to you as I know well the position you are in. If you would like, please feel free to contact me personally.




1RottenJohnny -> RE: Channeling Hostility (2/20/2005 8:52:00 PM)

I am by NO means an expert on this kind of subject but I certainly agree with Timothy. Unless your husband acknowledges the problem and WANTS to change it, it probably won't happen. Being an optimist I like to think that this kind of situation can be remedied but I think you should be prepared to make a change of your own. Don't let it get worse hoping it will get better.
No matter what, don't think that you have to face this alone. There are many people here and on the outside who have years of experience dealing with others in your situation. I will try to have someone I know here contact you who may be able to help.




NATI -> RE: Channeling Hostility (2/20/2005 9:02:51 PM)

An abusive man (or woman) who has been given license via the 'mandate' of dominance to cure his/her abusive tendencies is akin to giving an alcoholic keys to a bar to cure his (or her) drinking. It is simply not going to happen. It takes a great deal of self awareness and self control. What he needs to do is enroll in anger management classes. If this is your husband that we are talkng about, you need to get in touch with some hotlines. It is against TOS to post them on the boards, but if you run a search using the key words DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HOTLINE you will get the national tollfree # that can offer counseling on the phone, and put you in touch with people in your area. This is nothing to play with. Get yourself some help, tonight.




TravisTJustice -> RE: Channeling Hostility (2/20/2005 9:19:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NATI

An abusive man (or woman) who has been given license via the 'mandate' of dominance to cure his/her abusive tendencies is akin to giving an alcoholic keys to a bar to cure his (or her) drinking. It is simply not going to happen. It takes a great deal of self awareness and self control. What he needs to do is enroll in anger management classes. If this is your husband that we are talkng about, you need to get in touch with some hotlines. It is against TOS to post them on the boards, but if you run a search using the key words DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HOTLINE you will get the national tollfree # that can offer counseling on the phone, and put you in touch with people in your area. This is nothing to play with. Get yourself some help, tonight.


I'd just like to second this opinion.

Travis T.




MistressIsadora -> RE: Channeling Hostility (2/20/2005 11:30:39 PM)

Hello mystnangel,

I have emailed you. Feel free to contact me anytime.

Mistress Isadora




GentleLady -> RE: Channeling Hostility (2/21/2005 12:44:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Domination has nothing whatsoever to do with hostility or abuse. If you are in an abusive situation the bottom line is that you need to get out of it.....no matter what that entails. It will not change by attempting to reason that you can turn it into something that it is not.

I am sorry to be so blunt but I have dealt with abuse both on a personal level and also at the professional level. These things just don't change without serious intervention, and even then a long term change is very rare. My heart goes out to you as I know well the position you are in. If you would like, please feel free to contact me personally.

I second this. I have lived with abuse in the past and I deal with it in My profession. Please contact the people who have offered or Myself and call the hotlines that are there.

Gentle Lady





ShiftedJewel -> RE: Channeling Hostility (2/21/2005 3:44:17 AM)

quote:

An abusive man (or woman) who has been given license via the 'mandate' of dominance to cure his/her abusive tendencies is akin to giving an alcoholic keys to a bar to cure his (or her) drinking. It is simply not going to happen.


Been there, done that and truer words were never spoken. An abusive person, whether it's physical or emotion is the epitome of lack of control. I don't see them as being different in any way shape or form. Being in control of yourself means being able to control the desire to beat the hell out of someone, being able to hold your tongue rather then lashing out at someone you claim to love. Having control over your emotions to a point where you and all around you feel safe.

I won't go into gory detail here, but my ex thrived on telling me what a fat discusting pig I was (5'2" tall, 130 pounds, at the time) until I became anorexic, 48 pounds later... yes, I weighed 82 pounds, he still didn't stop.... that's abuse, plain and simple. And putting a flogger or paddle in his hand would have been emotional, and probably physical, suicide on my part. Can they change, not in my opinion, but then again, I didn't stick around to find out.

Jewel




BeachMystress -> RE: Channeling Hostility (2/21/2005 4:28:51 AM)

Please do not be embarrassed. This is a lifestyle about communication. You can't get the help you need if you're not straight forward. I'm glad you decided to reword your post to be clear and concise. By asking for help, you're taking the first steps towards taking care of yourself.

I do not feel his trying to assume a dominant role would be a positive experience for either of you. It isn't trying not to be dominant that makes him explode. It is pent up anger and rage that he is unable to manage. You are the weakest and safest source for him to vent it upon. Anger management and therapy might be helpful if this isn't an advanced case. Since I don't know what form the abuse is taking, verbal or physical, I can't say if it is worth trying or not. In my opinion, if the abuse has hit the physical realm, it is time to leave. We are conditioned against striking another human being in anger. Once someone crosses that line with another person, they feel freer to cross it again with the same person. They got away with it, it made them feel better. It is an unfortunate built in reward system.

Please take advantage of the people offering support and help on this board. You're worth too much as a person to deal with being abused. Even if the abuse is verbal rather than physically damaging, you deserve a happy, healthy life. Since you've been with him your entire adult life, I know it is hard to walk away. Please save yourself!

Wilmington Domestic Violence Hotline Business #: 302-762-6111 Hotline/Crisis: 302-762-6110

Wilmington Family Violence Program Business #: 302-762-6111

DELAWARE COALITION AGAINST DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
P.O. Box 847
Wilmington, DE 19899
Phone: 302-658-2958
1-800-701-0456

Battered Women's Shelter - 762-6110 Provides shelter to victims of domestic violence and their children, in a confidential manner.

Violent Crimes Compensation Board - 995-8383 Assistance for Victims of Violent Crime, Provides monetary assistance and relief to victims of violent crime including domestic violence victims.






EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Channeling Hostility (2/21/2005 4:31:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mystnangel

Can an abusive husband channel that hostility into a more positive experience by assuming his more natural role as a dominate as opposed to fighting those needs, and then exploding?


No, abuse has absolutely nothing to do with unchanneled dominant energy and everything to do with insecurity, inadequacy and misunderstanding how to express emotions healthily.

I have no problems with doms who want to take out bad day energy on their slave, or who use anger in scenes if they know how to do it well.

But someone can be both a dom and an abuser- being one won't take away the other.

That is just one question, but more will follow. I need to make a decision, and need the advice of those wiser than I in a forum of obscurity and safety.

Thanking you in advance for your time.

mystnangel





srahfox -> RE: Channeling Hostility (2/21/2005 5:55:00 AM)

Anouther thing I might be worried about, other than the chance of you being beat half to death while tied to the bed. Say you and hubby try to redirect his anger and control problems into domanace, and it kind of works for a little while. He's still going to be violent and abusive (Except now it's 'okay') and you are going to have a submissive experiance that isn't exactly correct. So, if you get out of the relationship after that, you're submissive experiances won't have exactly have been possitive and you may be too afraid to explore this side of you anymore.
Im may experiance, abusers rarely manage to to beany different to those people they abused. I'm not saying that they can't get better at all, but I think that often when they discover they can treat someone a certain way, they have a hard time seeing beyound that. Get out now, while you can.




Tristan -> RE: Channeling Hostility (2/21/2005 7:57:22 AM)

Mystnangel,

I don't think there is a good answer to your question without knowing more details about your relationship. The words "abusive husband" automatically suggest a situation that you did not specifically say existed. What type of abuse are you talking about...physical or emotional/verbal? You profile states that you have been with your husband for 30 years. Did he always have what you consider "rage" as stated in your profile? Is his rage directed at some aspect of your relationship? Is his "rage" directed at something like a lose of job or something similar? What kept you together this long and what makes you want to continue?

I'm assuming that after 30 years and with your desire to make the relationship work that you did have something in common once. However, its not uncommon for people in a long term relationship to create some very negative relationship dynamics that lead to anger and fustration especially if one or both do not feel that there partner is listening or accepting. The source of those negative dynamics are not easy to find and change. Sometimes it might help if one or both partners go out of their way for a period of time to listen and accept their partner without question. I've found this to be an effective method to open up real communications, and then in my experience the problems tended to just go away. Other times counseling is the best option.

Without knowing more details, all I think anyone can say is that on the "abusive husband" side of the spectrum, it would be a really really bad idea to allow him to be your dominant without extensive counseling and time. Even then, I would have my doubts and would think its probably best to start with a new partner. On the "we're in an emotional/relationship rut" end of the spectrum, it might work well for your husband to become your dominant after a period of communications.

Tristan




Mercnbeth -> RE: Channeling Hostility (2/21/2005 8:41:45 AM)

quote:

abusive husband channel that hostility into a more positive experience


mystnangel,

In a word - NO.

The main and most obvious reason is that there is no abuse in a BDSM relationship. At least there shouldn't be any. Being a Dominant is all about control. Not exclusively control of the submissive, but control of self.

Look at it this way...

...Saturday there was a boxing match at Staples Center here in LA. Two men were in the ring trying to knock each other out within a 21 foot square ring. Around them 20,000 people watched and paid for the privilege. If you've ever seen a boxing match in person, you know that even those 'jabs', which appear on TV to be taps, are violent, and damaging. But among all the violence there is at it's core control. At the bell, the action stops. If one fighter is hurt beyond the ability to self protect, he or a 'second' can 'throw in the towel' (safeword) and stop the fight. Without control, you have a street fight, and instead of being paid, the same activity has jail as a reward.

In all my years in the community, an abusive partner was very rare. Abuse is abuse. It's easy to tell the difference between play, a session, and abuse. It lacks a key aspects critical to a lifestyle relationship - CONCENT and TRUST. I'd would have been able to point to fear being absent in a lifestyle session, but because of a recent thread here extolling the virtues of "mind fucking" I'll concede that for some people fear is a desired goal. But even if you go back and read that thread, you'll not see abuse. The debate was focused on trust, and some, including myself thought it too much to risk, but control was still essential to any of the scenes.

An abusive spouse, is comparable to a rapist. A rapist has little or no sexual focus, it's violence. Abuse has none of the erotic or sensual aspects of this lifestyle.

I appreciate those that will tell you that with counseling and therapy an abusive person can change. Your profile indicates that you've lived with this a long time. You don't specify if the abuse is physical or mental, but the reality is there is no difference. Throughout both you and your spouse may have rationalized through many a bruise or trip to the hospital. There was always a catalyst, a bad day at the office, a problem with the car, the kids got on his nerves, etc. Like most negative behavior, society enables by giving plenty of excuses and 'treatment' so it's not his fault.

I don't agree. Some people are evil, some people are abusive. People are what they are. There is an old parable about a scorpion who wanted to cross a stream and asked a frog to take him across on his back. The frog didn't want to. He said to the scorpion that he feared he would sting him. The scorpion replied that if he stung the frog, they both would drown. The frog couldn't argue with that logic and allowed the scorpion to get on his back. Half way across the stream, the scorpion stung the frog. As it was dying the frog asked; "Why did you sting me? Now we both will die!" The scorpion replied; "Because I am a scorpion. That's what I do."

PS - This quote in your profile indicates you already know the answer; "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein~




NATI -> RE: Channeling Hostility (2/21/2005 8:46:10 AM)

quote:

Wilmington Domestic Violence Hotline Business #: 302-762-6111 Hotline/Crisis: 302-762-6110

Wilmington Family Violence Program Business #: 302-762-6111

DELAWARE COALITION AGAINST DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
P.O. Box 847
Wilmington, DE 19899
Phone: 302-658-2958
1-800-701-0456

Battered Women's Shelter - 762-6110 Provides shelter to victims of domestic violence and their children, in a confidential manner.

Violent Crimes Compensation Board - 995-8383 Assistance for Victims of Violent Crime, Provides monetary assistance and relief to victims of violent crime including domestic violence victims.


I'm confused about the TOS on this - but REALLY glad to see you posted it. I hope it stays!


***Personal phone numbers and numbers for local munch groups (which most likely ARE personal home numbers) are prohibited by the TOS. The numbers which Beach posted are for professional services for abuse. Fortunately , the TOS allows room for moderator discretion in many areas. - Mod5 ***




mistoferin -> RE: Channeling Hostility (2/21/2005 9:01:21 AM)

quote:

quote:

abusive husband channel that hostility into a more positive experience

mystnangel,

In a word - NO.


Thank you Mercnbeth!!! I could not agree more with your entire post. Having counseled hundreds if not thousands of women in abusive situations I will even take it one step farther and say that it is an EXTREMELY RARE day when an abuser actually responds to treatment and changes positively in the long term.

Once the foundation of abuse is laid it is much too easy for even a "recovered" abuser not to fall back into those habits when he is having a "bad day"(the burgers aren't cooked right, or someone cut him off in traffic, or he didn't get the raise he thought he deserved, or.................) While many women want to save the relationship, it is generally just not possible. Once the hole was in the Titanic, there was just no saving that ship.

I am not saying that this is a problem that is solely of the male abuser/female victim dynamic structure. Men are abused by females also, although it is much less common. Just to clarify though, I am not discounting that scenario but this post addresses the former.




proudsub -> RE: Channeling Hostility (2/21/2005 11:39:04 AM)

quote:

That is just one question, but more will follow. I need to make a decision, and need the advice of those wiser than I in a forum of obscurity and safety.

Thanking you in advance for your time.

mystnangel


I am really confused now. Are emeraldslave and mystnangel the same person with two completely different profiles, or am i misunderstanding emeralds's post which looks liked it is signed as mystnangel? Did mystnangel make up a profile in order to get anonymous advice and accidently post a reply as emerald?[:o]




EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Channeling Hostility (2/21/2005 11:43:02 AM)

quote:


Did mystnangel make up a profile in order to get anonymous advice and accidently post a reply as emerald?[:o]



ROFL. No, I just forgot a bracket for the quote feature and it skimmed together. If you look at my journal on my profile you'd see I'd had to have been doing a LOT of double-living for quite awhile in order to be her and me!

*chuckle*




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