RE: Thoughts on Switching: Dom/Top/submissive/bottom? (Full Version)

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Focus50 -> RE: Thoughts on Switching: Dom/Top/submissive/bottom? (12/23/2006 10:52:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy
Most societies we consider "primitive" have elaborate hierarchies along single sex lines and according to AGE over sex.  The old women, rather than being cast aside as completely irrelevant have a lot more directing power than the newly initiated males.

Most of these cultures have a "men and women are separate but fulfill equally critical roles" understanding.  This isn't revisionist, these are pretty Leakey era basics and come from interviews with the subjects in question.

Yes but these "cultures" and "primitive societies" etc are still early examples of a modern, civil society....  Pare it down to just one man foraging for himself vs one woman, even a dominant woman, doing the same and squaring off over rights to a meal and I know who my money will be on every time.  She'd know that, too; so much so that I'd doubt there'd even be a clash.  Survival of the fittest - the natural order.
 
Focus.




Grlwithboy -> RE: Thoughts on Switching: Dom/Top/submissive/bottom? (12/23/2006 11:02:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy
Most societies we consider "primitive" have elaborate hierarchies along single sex lines and according to AGE over sex.  The old women, rather than being cast aside as completely irrelevant have a lot more directing power than the newly initiated males.

Most of these cultures have a "men and women are separate but fulfill equally critical roles" understanding.  This isn't revisionist, these are pretty Leakey era basics and come from interviews with the subjects in question.

Yes but these "cultures" and "primitive societies" etc are still early examples of a modern, civil society....  Pare it down to just one man foraging for himself vs one woman, even a dominant woman, doing the same and squaring off over rights to a meal and I know who my money will be on every time.  She'd know that, too; so much so that I'd doubt there'd even be a clash.  Survival of the fittest - the natural order.
 
Focus.


My life involves deciding who goes to the co-op for pork and salad.  Postmodernity has given me antibiotics, anasthesia, the moon mission and the ability to be in charge in my personal relationships. Whatever blows yer skirt up as they say.




pixelslave -> RE: Thoughts on Switching: Dom/Top/submissive/bottom? (12/23/2006 11:08:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

[
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra
I am a dominant female and sometimes I like to bottom, yet I give no submission to my submale. I tell him what it is that I want and how I want it done. He does this because I tell him too and he desires to please me. I am in control at all times.
 
Sooooooooooooo...You're the Dominant, yet he occasionally Tops you! 
 
heh heh heh...I got it now!       ...and I'm thinkin I love it!  OMG



What Lashra describes is probably the only conditions under which I could comfortably act as a top and feel as though I could enjoy myself at the same time. 
 
Another analogy to some of what you've said that comes to mind is that I do like to flirt and to tease (I greatly appreciate the same in a woman as well [;)]).  So I can readily see where I could possibly top a woman if I approached it totally from that perspective and point of view.  But mentally and emotionally, if she were my Domme, she'd still be my Domme in my mind no matter what happened and I'd not be able to forget that.  It would be more a case of satisfying her itch and hoping it wouldn't be returned in triplicate. [8|]
 
 - pixel




Grlwithboy -> RE: Thoughts on Switching: Dom/Top/submissive/bottom? (12/23/2006 11:12:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

[
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra
I am a dominant female and sometimes I like to bottom, yet I give no submission to my submale. I tell him what it is that I want and how I want it done. He does this because I tell him too and he desires to please me. I am in control at all times.
 
Sooooooooooooo...You're the Dominant, yet he occasionally Tops you! 
 
heh heh heh...I got it now!       ...and I'm thinkin I love it!  OMG



What Lashra describes is probably the only conditions under which I could comfortably act as a top and feel as though I could enjoy myself at the same time. 
 
Another analogy to some of what you've said that comes to mind is that I do like to flirt and to tease (I greatly appreciate the same in a woman as well [;)]).  So I can readily see where I could possibly top a woman if I approached it totally from that perspective and point of view.  But mentally and emotionally, if she were my Domme, she'd still be my Domme in my mind no matter what happened and I'd not be able to forget that.  It would be more a case of satisfying her itch and hoping it wouldn't be returned in triplicate. [8|]
 
 - pixel


This is kind of interesting to me -- I'm always curious about the overlap between sexual passivity and submission or whether or not sexual passivity is just a personality trait that can be deployed in different ways (read: flirtatious pursuit under heading of being the sexual act-or in this case)

I'm of the mind that it's the latter. There's nothing necessarily bottom-like about letting a guy or a girl do the flirtatious work and seeing what "stuff" you've got.




pixelslave -> RE: Thoughts on Switching: Dom/Top/submissive/bottom? (12/24/2006 2:04:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave


What Lashra describes is probably the only conditions under which I could comfortably act as a top and feel as though I could enjoy myself at the same time. 
 
Another analogy to some of what you've said that comes to mind is that I do like to flirt and to tease (I greatly appreciate the same in a woman as well [;)]).  So I can readily see where I could possibly top a woman if I approached it totally from that perspective and point of view.  But mentally and emotionally, if she were my Domme, she'd still be my Domme in my mind no matter what happened and I'd not be able to forget that.  It would be more a case of satisfying her itch and hoping it wouldn't be returned in triplicate. [8|]
 
 - pixel



This is kind of interesting to me -- I'm always curious about the overlap between sexual passivity and submission or whether or not sexual passivity is just a personality trait that can be deployed in different ways (read: flirtatious pursuit under heading of being the sexual act-or in this case)

I'm of the mind that it's the latter. There's nothing necessarily bottom-like about letting a guy or a girl do the flirtatious work and seeing what "stuff" you've got.



I'm not certain I follow you at all.  To my mind, a submissive isn't necessarily sexually passive.  Most Dommes, seem to prefer a sub that is creative and has some initiative as well, but also knows how to follow directions and when to "take his place" so to speak.  Not to sound immodest, but I'm one who is talented in the area of massage, both therapeutic and sensual.  To do that well, requires me to take the initiative and follow what my hands tell me when I touch a woman.  It would be a great disservice to her if I stopped to ask permission every time I needed to move or touch a different area to continue to follow a line of tension and eventually relax her muscles.
 
I've touched enough women to know that I can easily tease and build a desire within them to want me to touch them more, harder, faster, a bit differently or someplace else nearby.[;)]  I also know that I can flirt or tease with words to have the same kind of effect.  That doesn't mean I don't prefer to be the one on the receiving end of this kind of treatment in one form or another.
 
When it comes to attracting and meeting women, Dommes are still basically women who like to be flirted with, teased to some extent, and in various ways be told they are attractive, usually without having a man bow down and begin to beg for their affection.  Once they have him as their sub, the latter usually is of course another matter.  Yet most Dommes, still like to have their sub continue to flirt with them, in some cases tease, and always to let them know in various ways how much they find them attractive! 
 
So to tease a woman and make her beg (or demand as the case may be) for what it is that she ultimately desires, is something I could readily see happening.  Perhaps the reason I can so easily relate, is that I get quite aroused when endlessly teased for hours, when a woman goes out of her way to build my desire for her in something of a similar manner.  I could see it applied in many different ways.  For me as one who will flirt and tease, usually in a verbal manner, but sometimes with my hands or with other body parts [8D], I can see how it could be extended to other ways and means if a Mistress wanted that from me in order to satisfy other needs she had for different kinds of play.  So if placed in the position of a top by my Mistress, I could readily tease using sensations of a pleasurable kind.  I don't know that I could easily apply sensations of a much stronger type without help and guidance from her.  Fortunately, that's something I've never been in a position to have to try and do! [8|]
 
 - pixel




MaamJay -> RE: Thoughts on Switching: Dom/Top/submissive/bottom? (12/24/2006 4:04:13 AM)

Switching - never a straightforward topic! From all the people I have met in real life, this is what I've found:
1. Some people can switch regularly, others occasionally, some never. Some love it, some hate it, some learn a lot, others don't.
2. More can switch into roles such as topping or bottoming, than can switch into actual dominance or submission.
3. Not everyone attempts to switch with the same person. Those that do seem to be successful if they delineate the roles and times quite precisely so that both see the arrangement as fair. Some I know have an underlying D/s relationship that pretty much always goes the same way, but switch roles occasionally to "scratch the other itch". In this way the sub never actually dominates their Dominant, but they play top for a while for the Dominant's ultimate pleasure.
4. Some who like to be both Dominant and submissive find it easier to do that with different partners so that there is no mind confusion as to who's who! That's generally how I am ... Master is now Master and I can't imagine dominating Him now, but I enjoy dominating male subs. That said though, when Master and I first met 3 and 1/2 years ago , I Dommed Him! Though that suited our situations and mindsets at the time, we both sensed it was a temporary window of opportunity (lasted about 5 months) ... then we mutually switched and from then on, He was and is Master and that suits us both.  
So the take-home message is that there are no "musts" or "should-be's" ... it's up to each person to consider whether switching roles or more is for them or not.

And to the side thread that started here ... I don't equate submission with being passive ... at least not in my case LOL!

Regards
Maam Jay aka violet[A]




Bearlee -> RE: Thoughts on Switching: Dom/Top/submissive/bottom? (12/24/2006 7:43:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx
I believe that some people call themselves M/s when they really are just in a traditional relationship.  I don't necessarily see the power exchanged. 

Nor could I, Jeff.  And yes, it does look like some people’s ‘power exchange’ is a bit….ummmm…soft?  I figure it’s all relative (again).  I don’t consider it real play, unless I end up with bloody welts…or he does.  (Well, at least some of the time).  Others ‘hard play’ might be with a soft elk-skin flogger that will merely warm up a body and turn it pretty pink.  <shrugs>  To each their own…I realize I’ve always had trouble with grey…I like radical sensations.  After a steambath; I love to jump into an ice-water pool.  Go figure…no wonder I prefer really edgy play, huh?
 
I would say the same goes for the ‘emotional’ side of a power exchange.  I want a relationship where there is no ifs ands or buts about who’s in charge.  Of course, I’m a strong, capable woman…but I LIKE deferring to my parter.  And not just on the soft stuff…like just before we play; but on ALL the stuff.  So yes, I’ve seen where this side of things might look ‘watered-down’ in some relationships; it wouldn’t in mine.  Like you, Jeff…I want to live D/s…toys, tools of pain, psychological dominance, honest submissiveness and 24/7…not just for a weekend play-date. 
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy
In my eyes you're no less sub because you happen to have the skills to top. For me that's a desireable skill set in a submissive, for others it's not - same could be said of bootblacking, doing windows, or tying cherry stems with your tongue. :) 

Ahhhhhhh, ya know…I keep suggesting folks read the book by the slave of Guy Baldwin: “SlaveCraft: Roadmaps for Erotic Servitude--Principles, Skills and Tools”  I really enjoyed that book, especially where he suggests you take on learning skills to make you a more valuable asset.  Heh, heh, heh…  I like that Topping could be just such a skill!
 
I do like how you think, Grl.  Thanks…
beverly




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