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RE: The Problems With Globalization and World Trade - 12/27/2006 8:23:16 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

With regard to the "strong" dollar, I believe that is a thing of the past. In international terms the dollar is "weak" In fact Japan , definately, and I think China have so many dollar denominated assets in the reserves that they have a powerful economic grip on the USA.

Agreed, we are a weakening power, and that is illustrated best by the war we are fighting right now.

quote:

Its not in their interest to "crash" the dollar but they could engineer reductions by selling those assets, and as the dollar declines buy even more US "hard" assets. Property etc.

Pegging their currency to the dollar maintains their trade competitiveness but interest rates rising in the US to offset the dollar decline should only make any recession worse.

No one knows exactly what form the United States weakening as a power will take, no one has ever seen a country with as much debt, and so many have a vested interest in not seeing the United States crash economically (Saudi Arabia comes to mind also). It is hard to predict if there will be a global crash or just a slowing to a stop for us.

We have not invested in a future without fossils, that alone is a very scary proposition to me.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 21

RE: The Problems With Globalization and World Trade - 12/27/2006 9:36:32 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Why is the decision made by a country by it's leaders currently called exploitation? Would you remove all decision making from these people because you, or some world wide authority determine it's "for their own good"? Where does that process stop?

You've got to help me out here. Are you for one world government where one person or group of people establish the price of goods and the pay-scale for all the workers? Who would you trust with that power?

Up until now the US has been one of the most vocal governments for free trade but is unwilling to allow free trade when it adversely affects the US. This shows something of an inconsistency that infects all western governments. The west is very good at talking the talk but not walking the walk. The west dumps produce on the third world but doesn't allow the third world to dump products on the west. Today, the west is usually a little more subtle than sending gunboats to make a point but pressure there is from the west and it's a case of 'do as I say, not as I do'. GATT is a western invention but now we complain about it because at times it points to the west to being the villain.

MC,
Take a look at who is complaining?

Disjointed buzz words such as the ones posted here come from both sides of the liberal / conservative spectrum.

Look at one I found most amusing. The use of fossil fuels leading to an exploding population? Where the foundation fact of the argument? Is it irrefutable and is the population explosion not possible due to any other fact? Climate? Better access to medical services? Religion? Catholicism leads to exploding population has the same basis in fact - none. Just distraction. Just a matter of confusing the people who believe it, based upon no other reason than that they want to.

Look at who we place in charge to change the situation. Politicians, of both parties, in the majority have one basic thing in common - they are lawyers. Formally an honored profession they are now the leaches of society and the economy. Bad lawyers become corporate lawyers. Worse lawyers go into the ambulance chasing business. The bottom of the barrel become politicians. We appoint to these people to represent us believing in the fallacy that they know better because they are educated lawyers. Another example of believing in something with no foundation in fact.

Being inherently stupid and with only re-election as a goal, they proceed to make laws without any more forethought than they had when they failed when they couldn't make it in private practice or as corporate lawyers. Except now they have people willing to pay them for their time to listen to their perspective. These people are called lobbyists, representing PACs who put campaign funds into these peoples pockets to achieve their goal. Often these people are also lawyers who are smart enough to not have to go into politics at the election end, but instead manipulate to get their point of view into law. Personal integrity, if they had any, is quickly gone in the face of financial reality.

I'll again ask the question and stipulate that all the anti-USA, anti-west, anti-establishment, anti-status quo is correct. One question still has yet to be answered. When the USA fails staying on its current course, as is the expectation, who provides the benevolent world ruler who corrects all the injustice of the current unequal distribution of wealth?

Who, or what, would you like to believe is the solution to western exploitation?

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 22

RE: The Problems With Globalization and World Trade - 12/27/2006 9:51:50 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Who, or what, would you like to believe is the solution to western exploitation?

I don't think there is a solution and I'm like everyone else in the west and view being at the butt end of another culture with some intrepidation but as China said, the west has tried and failed in its efforts to solve the problems it created in the first place.

I don't think the weakening of the US is the end of the west, it might be even a good thing for the west for the US not to be an out and out superpower but has to rely on support from other western nations. That might be a strengthening of the west's influence in the world, even if it is a weakening of military power. The west functioned better when it was challenged by other powers and it was more attractive to most ordinary people in the world then too because they had an alternative to compare to. That being said, the west had better leaders than it has now, most of whom seem corrupt, dishonest or just down right weak characters.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 23

RE: The Problems With Globalization and World Trade - 12/27/2006 10:28:54 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

I don't think there is a solution and I'm like everyone else in the west and view being at the butt end of another culture with some intrepidation but as China said, the west has tried and failed in its efforts to solve the problems it created in the first place.

I don't think the weakening of the US is the end of the west, it might be even a good thing for the west for the US not to be an out and out superpower but has to rely on support from other western nations. That might be a strengthening of the west's influence in the world, even if it is a weakening of military power.

MC,
Without a solution, you and I share common ground where the status quo is the best of the worst possible alternatives. However it also points how short sighted we are knowing full well that status quo will be the only thing that we can count on to change.

China's position is also based upon a false assumption and the wishful thinking that they will fill the vacuum if/when the US fails. They are already experiencing the pain of opening the door a crack to the west that the USSR encountered. Once the people see the massive excess of the west and the 'fruits' of their exploitation they may resent it, but ultimately they want to achieve it. 'Personal' pleasure and comfort is counterproductive to a common society 'good' however it's defined. I point to the current generation of Japanese. If you read what is occurring in their culture the young generation coming into their own is no longer tied to the 'one job for life' concept and the corporate good being more important than the corporate good.

Gordon Gecko's "Greed is Good" may not be correct, but "Greed is Human" is an accurate reflection for the majority. Without a mass conversion to "Mother Theresa type" altruism in the world that fundamental aspect of humanity must be considered for every potential solution. It's also the reason there isn't any solution with one exception - global dictatorship. I don't see anyone pushing for that.

As we bicker and fight for the crumbs at our level what happens around us is controlled. It's not controlled by the 'west', 'east', liberal or conservative; it's corporate. There is no law that can go into effect in any one place to impact changing that situation. Corporations are liberal and conservative depending what fits best into their "Mission Statement". Look behind any move from NAFTA to the most recent attempt to tax oil companies for production in California. Corporations were behind both initiatives fueling the fight with money and using the people who "want to believe" as pawns. Had it passed the $550 Million spent supporting the oil company tax would have had their investment returned 1000 fold, in government sanctioned venture capitol money with no requirement to achieve results. I found it amazing that people were fooled by this and supported it, but they wanted to believe that they'd be helping the US achieve energy independence. A simpler approach would be announcing a $1 Billion 'prize' for creating an energy source that makes the USA self sufficient. However, careful, if that solution involves something that involves nuclear energy, requires the damming of a river, or has the potential of making a 'blind salamander' extinct; you void your prize in the current US 'politically correct' climate.

What to do? Listen, learn, rely on observable confirmed facts, don't "want to believe" in anything, and invest a few dollars in the Corporations who use the ignorance of the masses and the pull the strings of their political appointees.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 24

RE: The Problems With Globalization and World Trade - 12/27/2006 12:39:34 PM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I have heard all sorts of rational arguments in favor of global economics, but one of the problems is that part of the reason there is so much poverty is because over population, over population is fueled by fossil fuels. Capitalist economies require growth, which means more markets, more consumers.. it is a vicious cycle. More economic development, more people. More people, less resources. Sooner or later local economies will replace the currrent models, the question is, will we be prepared for the day when we must make our own durable goods? At this point the answer to that question kinda scares me. The consumer mentality of wasting and using things up, designing things to be obsolete or to break also part of the problem.

Julia…..

I tried not once but twice last night to reply after listening to one of those files. But because of this messed up weather here in the PNW, this computer restarted twice and I lost two long-ass posts because of it. Finally after the power decided to stay off, I decided to drive home and fall asleep.

Anyone with a yearning to understand the inherent evils contained within our monetary system should listen to the money creation file. You will NEVER see that taught in the mainstream.

Having grown up under a father who practiced securities law for over twenty years has provided me with a sincere understanding of the ill-conceived demagoguery with regard to lawyers and the insurance industry when compared to that of the real boogey man – Our monetary system and the banking industry that surrounds it.

As to more thoughts with regard to globalization :

Surely I won't try to deny or argue that globalization wouldn't act in a beneficial manner towards lower-tiered, emerging countries /markets, but in the context of this country and being on top, globaloney coupled with this massive privatization scheme where the is an ownership /stranglehold over all of the world's essential natural resources by a few select entities, isn't globalization as many would try to characterize, it's instead neo-feudalism in disguise. ** Big Wink **

JMHO

- R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 12/27/2006 12:55:43 PM >

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 25

RE: The Problems With Globalization and World Trade - 12/27/2006 1:14:42 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

Thanks for letting me know you actually listened to that file, and many of them are just as good as that one! I hope others will give them a listen because you are right, they do not teach us that stuff in high school or junior college or even at some universities (and they should).

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 26

RE: The Problems With Globalization and World Trade - 12/27/2006 1:54:49 PM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

quote:

The planet cannot sustain the United States lifestyle globally. If India and China demand the same standards of living that we have (which their demand for oil is growing exponentially) then when fossils become ever harder to come by many people will starve globally.

The growing of agricultural products, the powering of cities, medicines, are all related to fossils

Yes indeed.......and some might wonder why some of my posts have a Malthusian tone. If there is one thing that I am completely in-line with when it comes to the globalists’, it's the necessity of population control.

I’ve made this analogy before…..It’s always been my view that this planet, with the current trends, is nothing more than a larger version of Easter Island returned to dust.

- R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 12/27/2006 1:57:33 PM >

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 27

RE: The Problems With Globalization and World Trade - 12/27/2006 1:56:17 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
MC,
Without a solution, you and I share common ground where the status quo is the best of the worst possible alternatives. However it also points how short sighted we are knowing full well that status quo will be the only thing that we can count on to change.

What to do? Listen, learn, rely on observable confirmed facts, don't "want to believe" in anything, and invest a few dollars in the Corporations who use the ignorance of the masses and the pull the strings of their political appointees.

If ya cant beat em join em? As a point of interest this is a take off actually of a thread you started some time ago about selling off our ports but serves to illustrate the larger agenda behind it all. (NWO)

Foreign companies are buying up our water systems, our power generating systems, our mines, and our few remaining factories. All because "flat world" so-called "free trade" policies have turned us from a nation of wealthy producers into a nation of indebted consumers, leaving the world awash in dollars that are most easily used to buy off big chunks of America. As www.economyincrisis.com notes, US Government statistics indicate the following percentages of foreign ownership of American industry:

· Sound recording industries - 97%
· Commodity contracts dealing and brokerage - 79%
· Motion picture and sound recording industries - 75%
· Metal ore mining - 65%
· Motion picture and video industries - 64%
· Wineries and distilleries - 64%
· Database, directory, and other publishers - 63%
· Book publishers - 63%
· Cement, concrete, lime, and gypsum product - 62%
· Engine, turbine and power transmission equipment - 57%
· Rubber product - 53%
· Nonmetallic mineral product manufacturing - 53%
· Plastics and rubber products manufacturing - 52%
· Plastics product - 51%
· Other insurance related activities - 51%
· Boiler, tank, and shipping container - 50%
· Glass and glass product - 48%
· Coal mining - 48%
· Sugar and confectionery product - 48%
· Nonmetallic mineral mining and quarrying - 47%
· Advertising and related services - 41%
· Pharmaceutical and medicine - 40%
· Clay, refractory, and other nonmetallic mineral products - 40%
· Securities brokerage - 38%
· Other general purpose machinery - 37%
· Audio and video equipment mfg and reproducing magnetic and optical media - 36%
· Support activities for mining - 36%
· Soap, cleaning compound, and toilet preparation - 32%
· Chemical manufacturing - 30%
· Industrial machinery - 30%
· Securities, commodity contracts, and other financial investments and related activities - 30%
· Other food - 29%
· Motor vehicles and parts - 29%
· Machinery manufacturing - 28%
· Other electrical equipment and component - 28%
· Securities and commodity exchanges and other financial investment activities - 27%
· Architectural, engineering, and related services - 26%
· Credit card issuing and other consumer credit - 26%
· Petroleum refineries (including integrated) - 25%
· Navigational, measuring, electromedical, and control instruments - 25%
· Petroleum and coal products manufacturing - 25%
· Transportation equipment manufacturing - 25%
· Commercial and service industry machinery - 25%
· Basic chemical - 24%
· Investment banking and securities dealing - 24%
· Semiconductor and other electronic component - 23%
· Paint, coating, and adhesive - 22%
· Printing and related support activities - 21%
· Chemical product and preparation - 20%
· Iron, steel mills, and steel products - 20%
· Agriculture, construction, and mining machinery - 20%
· Publishing industries - 20%
· Medical equipment and supplies - 20%

Thus it shouldn't surprise us that the cons have sold off our ports as well, and will defend it to the bitter end. They truly believe that a "New World Order" with multinational corporations in charge instead of sovereign governments will be the answer to the problem of world instability. And therefore they must do away with quaint things like unions, a healthy middle class, and, ultimately, democracy.

The full article http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0227-20.htm

i suppose to put this into proper perspective we would need to know how much combined property we own in other countries. Um legally acquired property that is.

Julia, what sound track or video? I am still reading the the money wizards LOL

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 28

RE: The Problems With Globalization and World Trade - 12/27/2006 2:20:00 PM

seeksfemslave

Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline

Someone above says that the banks are the underlying problem. It is true that the banking system has caused problems but as I see it the real problem is the failure of western "representative" governments to hold the banks to account.

For example the lending that is occuring in the UK, credit card for consumer goods and to finance house purchase, we say building societies, is totally and utterly irresponsible and cannot possibly be sustained. I think the same occurs in the US.

I have no answer but just hope that if a crash occurs such assets as I have accumulated do not go down the tubes. A real possiblity in my opinion.

Mind you I have been predicting disaster for 25 years so maybe I have missed the point !

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 29

RE: The Problems With Globalization and World Trade - 12/27/2006 2:30:11 PM

Zensee

Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

The trans-national corporations have been doing an end run around the nation state for decades, They have created mutually confounding systems, regulations and laws to circumvent the authority and jurisdiction of the nation states, acting with impunity and regularly suing for lost profits when local regulations and even zoning interfere. They can shuffle their finances, cherry picking where their profits are declared, their liabilities absorbed and their taxes dodged.

The term Globalisation has become negative because of this but we need global legal strategies to combat the abuse of the trans nationals and restore authority to individual countries.

Those who argue for the further reduction of national and state governments are a bit short sighted. Someone will govern – that’s a given. Would you rather it was an elected (albeit presently dysfunctional) body or a shadow cabinet of corporate heavies?

Z.

_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 30

RE: The Problems With Globalization and World Trade - 12/27/2006 2:44:06 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

Thus it shouldn't surprise us that the cons have sold off our ports as well, and will defend it to the bitter end. They truly believe that a "New World Order" with multinational corporations in charge instead of sovereign governments will be the answer to the problem of world instability. And therefore they must do away with quaint things like unions, a healthy middle class, and, ultimately, democracy.

i suppose to put this into proper perspective we would need to know how much combined property we own in other countries. Um legally acquired property that is.

R.O.
So your position is for or against globalization? Is 'for' indicative of supporting further foreign ownership of American industry? Is against locking down the borders and nationalizing key industries to prevent further erosion to foreign ownership? Is it something in between? Already we have citizens of the US supporting a nationalized health care. Why stop there? Why not nationalize Banks or Insurance? How about ending exploitation of farm workers by nationalizing the farms. The recent illegal immigration problem at the packing plant points to a need to nationalize the meat processing business. Is this the anti-globalization position?

I don't have argument for any of the issues or examples you provided. I appreciate the reference to that old post and was happy to see that the purchase didn't go through.

My position isn't one of; "If ya cant beat em join em" mentality its a position based upon irrefutable facts which seem to be supported by all the examples given in this thread. It also removes the US centric concept that seems to be such a problem.

You need to establish how is "foreign ownership" defined the article. I don't believe it's determined. Is it a foreign national living in the US. Is if led by a "foreign" Corporation? I quote "foreign" because trade and tax laws have deported many formally US companies outside the country's boundary. Ever been to the Cayman Islands? Lots of Banks Holding Companies and Insurance Companies hide their money by being domiciled there. They have the if you can't beat them - LEAVE attitude caused by them having a option to remaining a US Corporation subject to over-regulation and over-taxation. There isn't one national US Bank of any size that can't at the flip of a switch send all their assets to those friendly warm Islands to a subsidiary Bank.

Notice that most container ships have a Panama registry? Why because Panama is a great builder of boats? I don't believe they are, what they are is a nice place for tax and other reasons, for shipping companies to domicile their boats there. Corporations take advantage of these things, whether domiciled in the US or not. By the time any legislation in the US makes it into law designed to impact an industry, the counter-move has been put in place by Corporations. Whether this is good, bad, or indifferent isn't the point. It is.

Pragmatism is not easy to practice in all things. I hate to see jobs and corporations leave the US but when reading into why it's occurring I'd make the same decision if empowered to do so. However, I can still work to change what is occurring in a self-centered, nationalistic way. I can still have issues regarding the security of US ports if they are sold to a country that is a haven to radical Muslim terrorists. I don't abdicate my rights to disagree or not like the state of the world. The foolish position would be to isolate one aspect of "globalization" and associate every aspect of world trade to that one aspect.

Then again, if you go into a debate with firm beliefs, with the advent of the internet there is no lack of documentation from "experts" to confirm those beliefs. I read more from contrary sources of opinion than I do reading positions of agreement. I'm not foolish enough to believe that my positions aren't subject to change over time.

Globalization will happen because there are now the means for it to happen. We no longer have to send out a ship and wait a year to find out if our investment produces a return.

One saving issue to consider. Our nation of "indebted consumers" makes us a valuable commodity. We are indebted enough that collectively not having the ability to pay will shut the system down. Being "consumers" serves the same purpose. Unless our market is replaced it must be kept as is to support the "system".

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 31

RE: The Problems With Globalization and World Trade - 12/27/2006 3:02:11 PM

defiantbadgirl

Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

I think globalization got a bad name when so many US workers either lost their jobs or had to accept lower wages to keep their jobs. If the cost of living had been lowered accordingly, there wouldn't be a problem, but it hasn't. Many people think the majority of homeless Americans are either drug addicts, unemployed, or alcoholics. This is a myth. More than half of the homeless have jobs, but their wages are so low that they can't afford to pay for all 4 necessities.........rent, utilities, water, and food.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 32

RE: The Problems With Globalization and World Trade - 12/27/2006 3:29:41 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

i can see where globalization could have great merit.

The problem as i see it gets back to one thing as usual. money.

The way i have this all wrapped up, we used government to ruin those who intimidated us through extortion and force.

The enemy was clearly visible, they carried guns and we knew who to shoot at.

Today life is much different. The enemy lives and operates in the shadows and operates under the premise of "you attract more bees with honey".

If its not clear all we really did is to exchange one mafia for another.

Although i can see where there is some merit in the NWO;s agenda, the problem boils down to the bankers at the helm where the corporation can and does with impunity and above any democratic process direct governments and policies based solely on profits to the demise of all else.

If the evolution of the NWO was removed from corportate control and was in any way fashion or manner a democratic process rather than in the hands of unfettered "profit at any cost" capitalists, (bankers), that would remove much of the rampant disregard for literally everything we value in the world around us. Humanity, resources etc.

It seems to me the only way to remotely curb this is to dismantle the federal reserve who is for the most part at the roots of all evil in this country, right down to the assination of JFK who really pissed them off.

Exactly like the old mafia they commit crime after crime and somewhere in the mix investigations will "always" eventually lead back to banking industry involvement.

Money can and does buy anything. Its buying all of us right now this second!

Not only have polititians sold their souls for money so have we!

We all wish to protect our assets and our way of life and to have future monetary growth so we all we give the evils lip service but when it comes to paying the price just let it all slip under the table, over and over again.

We have been beaten into submission by our own greed, and for what? Table scraps.

So the solution is quite simple, bring democracy back, make the government print money again, and by doing so we and the whole world will go bankrupt together! So its pretty simple in concept but i have no clu how to do it gracefully and painlessly. However removing control from the corporation, (federal reserve), and bringing the people back into the descision making process of how this countries money is appropriated will for the most part solve the tryanny side of globalization and the relentless rape of literally everything as it stands now. As long as we build in protections and they are upheld by those we entrust to uphold them.

Until then, dont kid yourselves, money rules and the bankers have all the money.

So on your knees everyone, pay homage to the corporation, and beg for vasoline!

Thank you master may i have another! LOL

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 33

RE: The Problems With Globalization and World Trade - 12/27/2006 3:36:53 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Thus it shouldn't surprise us that the cons have sold off our ports as well, and will defend it to the bitter end. They truly believe that a "New World Order" with multinational corporations in charge instead of sovereign governments will be the answer to the problem of world instability. And therefore they must do away with quaint things like unions, a healthy middle class, and, ultimately, democracy.

i suppose to put this into proper perspective we would need to know how much combined property we own in other countries. Um legally acquired property that is.

R.O.
So your position is for or against globalization?

Yikes! great post, but i need some time to think about this.

In the words of the great arnie "i'll be back"

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 34

RE: The Problems With Globalization and World Trade - 12/27/2006 3:43:52 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

We have been beaten into submission by our own greed, and for what? Table scraps.

So the solution is quite simple, bring democracy back, make the government print money again, and by doing so we and the whole world will go bankrupt together! So its pretty simple in concept but i have no clu how to do it gracefully and painlessly. However removing control from the corporation, (federal reserve), and bringing the people back into the descision making process of how this countries money is appropriated will for the most part solve the tryanny side of globalization and the relentless rape of literally everything as it stands now. As long as we build in protections and they are upheld by those we entrust to uphold them.

Until then, dont kid yourselves, money rules and the bankers have all the money.

R.O.
Not kidding myself, because I agree with you.

I don't believe or foresee an environment where Corporations will be ceding power to anyone. If anything the future world will resemble the scenario in the original version of "Rollerball" - you know the James Caan version; with Corporate anthems replacing national anthems.

Remember; one man's "table scraps" is another mans wealth.

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 35

RE: The Problems With Globalization and World Trade - 12/27/2006 3:57:53 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

We have been beaten into submission by our own greed, and for what? Table scraps.

So the solution is quite simple, bring democracy back, make the government print money again, and by doing so we and the whole world will go bankrupt together! So its pretty simple in concept but i have no clu how to do it gracefully and painlessly. However removing control from the corporation, (federal reserve), and bringing the people back into the descision making process of how this countries money is appropriated will for the most part solve the tryanny side of globalization and the relentless rape of literally everything as it stands now. As long as we build in protections and they are upheld by those we entrust to uphold them.

Until then, dont kid yourselves, money rules and the bankers have all the money.

R.O.
Not kidding myself, because I agree with you.

I don't believe or foresee an environment where Corporations will be ceding power to anyone. If anything the future world will resemble the scenario in the original version of "Rollerball" - you know the James Caan version; with Corporate anthems replacing national anthems.

Remember; one man's "table scraps" is another mans wealth.

This is almost funny you know because it seems i responded to at least part of your points before reading your post LOL

That is very true however, it is just so sad that this isnt being done within a democratic process. That and i can certainly see why the muslims are so pissed off at us, and even with that i fear terrorism brought about by our own regimes far more than that of any muslim nation, at least at the moment.

One word of caution however... dont go within 100 yards of any building owned by silverstien or government fraud investigations. :) at least they are not using nukes. (yet)

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 36

RE: The Problems With Globalization and World Trade - 12/27/2006 5:03:21 PM

sleazy

Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline

Globalisation good or bad? Well as far as Im concerned it has elements of both. On the upside I like it that when I travel I can stay in a hotel, built to a chain design so that it feels comfortable and familiar no matter where I may be, but on the down side that self same out of the mould hotel room detracts from, and eats away at the native culture of wherever I may be visitng. However, cultures do evolve and deal with change, or they fade away, darwinism applies to much more than just animals.

The only objection I really have to the OP is the link between dino-fuel useage and population growth. If James Watt had perfected the hydrogen fuel cell as a cheap effiencient means of motive power rather than the steam engine, would the situation be any different? (other than perhaps globalisation would have occured earlier in history and we would be living now either in a totally global economy, or its successor). Transportation and communcication are the beating heart under global economics, does it make any difference if the transport comes from dead animals, the wind, or any other power source? I suspect not, in fact I actually think that using a power source that was not finite would actually increase the rate of globalisation, much the same as an affordable form of space transportation would result in solaristation or galaxisation (no bonus points for pointing out silly words

)

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(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 37

RE: The Problems With Globalization and World Trade - 12/27/2006 5:25:42 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

The only objection I really have to the OP is the link between dino-fuel useage and population growth. If James Watt had perfected the hydrogen fuel cell as a cheap effiencient means of motive power rather than the steam engine, would the situation be any different? (other than perhaps globalisation would have occured earlier in history and we would be living now either in a totally global economy, or its successor). Transportation and communcication are the beating heart under global economics, does it make any difference if the transport comes from dead animals, the wind, or any other power source? I suspect not, in fact I actually think that using a power source that was not finite would actually increase the rate of globalisation, much the same as an affordable form of space transportation would result in solaristation or galaxisation (no bonus points for pointing out silly words)

I took at least a dozen geography courses when I was in college because I flirted with a double major in geography and in anthropology. I learned about demographic transition models, resources that are not replenishable, carrying capacity of the Earth. I learned about how energy sources have indeed shaped global trade. We are not dealing with any other energy resource besides fossils on a global scale. If we had a cheaper energy resource that was renewable, or even a free one, I believe that would change the global economy in a positive way.

But we do not have that... yet. So we deal with the real, not the hypotheticals.

There are cultural reasons and economic reasons that populations still continue to grow at alarming rates globally, while slowing down in the West for the most part. The growth itself has been contributed to by fossil fuels. I have been searching google for some statistics I heard in a class about this subject about 3 years ago that talked about how population increases tended to grow along with the use of fossils, and that the exponential growth can be directly attributed to fossils.

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Post #: 38

RE: The Problems With Globalization and World Trade - 12/28/2006 1:28:21 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

The main reason for population growth is poverty. Paradoxically the poorer you are in the world the more children you need to scrounge a living. There is a high mortality rate if you live in poverty so you need plenty of children as an insurance some make it to adulthood so you have security in your dotage. Population growth correlates with poverty. When a society becomes more affluent birthrate drops as in the developed countries because you can have one child and be pretty certain it will grow up to be an adult and procreate.

No doubt there are muscle heads that say, if you can't afford children, don't have them. However, those muscle heads tend not to live under the pressure of poverty. The answer is to population growth is development which means increased access to developed markets by poor societies and that means countries in the west need to stop dumping and open their markets. The other problem is that there is a lack of resources in the world for all people to live to the standard of the developed countries. We are in something of a Catch 22 situation.

Population in Europe during the industrial revolution had much to do with poverty. With people having their land appropriated and less work in the country, people moved to the city, they lived a more precarious life due to slave wages. With no access to a reliable food source and infant mortality high due to desease ridden new towns, people needed more children to survive and earn. When reforms in health and working conditions gave people a more secure life and improved child mortality rates, the birth rate slowly evened out and now is falling.

The answer? There is no short term answer. We are talking about something that happenes subconsciously in a population but the pattern as been repeated enough to make the connection between high birth rate and poverty.

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Post #: 39

RE: The Problems With Globalization and World Trade - 12/28/2006 1:49:30 AM

Zensee

Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

Hello everyone.

I’d like to apply for the job of obnoxious nay-sayer for this thread. I have an innate grasp of the most popular instruments of propaganda, rhetoric, semantics and bullshit.

I promise to convert every incoming argument into at least four (4 ) retorts but I reserve the right to make at least one (1) of them vaguely relative to the topic. I promise to make generous use of distraction, diversion, ambiguity, reductio ad absurdum, straw man arguments, self referential and cyclic logic, tautology, repetition, reiteration, repeating myself and saying the same thing over and over while disguising it as a fresh idea.

In the highly unlikely case that my stellar logical abilities cannot ensure victory I am prepared to stoop to personal attacks, mockery, taunting, labeling and name calling up to and including demonising (Nazification). To effect this I am willing to engage in cross thread and even cross forum stalking. Chest thumping and willy-waving provided at no extra cost.

In any case I will not cease until I have humiliated and driven off any and all opposition. I also promise to ignore the Moderators when they tell me to CLICK HERE. In addition my posts will all end with a big smiley

for convenient denial of intent purposes.

I hope you find my application in order and that my particular skill set meets your needs.

References available on request.

Sincerely,
Z.

PS: Despite what the bottom of the post says, this is not a reply to meatcleaver, or to anyone in particular - just me trying to address a perceived need.

< Message edited by Zensee -- 12/28/2006 1:53:00 AM >

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Post #: 40

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