Getting away from the natural...

Getting away from the natural... (Full Version)

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aviinterra -> Getting away from the natural... (12/28/2006 5:37:52 AM)
The FDA is approving cloaned animals for food and milk ( and no, they don't think a label is needed for us the consumers ): http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16372490/ Would you eat it? Do you have concerns? I know it will not be on my table- the long term effects are still unknown and it is not a process nature ever intended. If they have to approve it, fine, but at least give us a label!!

stef -> RE: Getting away from the natural... (12/28/2006 6:12:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aviinterra Would you eat it? Do you have concerns? Yes and no. quote: I know it will not be on my table- the long term effects are still unknown and it is not a process nature ever intended. Neither are vaccinations, surgery, air travel or computers. Will you eschew those things as well? ~stef

aviinterra -> RE: Getting away from the natural... (12/28/2006 6:56:27 AM)
quote: Neither are vaccinations, surgery, air travel or computers. Will you eschew those things as well? You can not logically compare a computer, or actually all of the above, to an unlabled food product. Without that lable, you do not have a choice in whether or not you consume the said product. I should have a right to judge for myself, moral and safety wise, whether or not I want to consume a cloned animal. The gov't. taking that right out of my hands is just not o.k.

Devilslilsister -> RE: Getting away from the natural... (12/28/2006 11:02:44 AM)
eh - whats the difference - you're still consuming an animal and if you reaaaally think about it. Its all kind of gross. Whether it be cloned or not - it'll all still go through the same processes. NOW what you have to worry about is ........

stef -> RE: Getting away from the natural... (12/28/2006 11:13:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aviinterra You can not logically compare a computer, or actually all of the above, to an unlabled food product. Without that lable, you do not have a choice in whether or not you consume the said product. I should have a right to judge for myself, moral and safety wise, whether or not I want to consume a cloned animal. The gov't. taking that right out of my hands is just not o.k. It's as logical as your argument. When you get right down to it, drinking the milk of another species is not "natural" in the first place. ~stef

philosophy -> RE: Getting away from the natural... (12/28/2006 4:47:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef Neither are vaccinations, surgery, air travel or computers. Will you eschew those things as well? ~stef ....interesting list of potential comparisons to cloned meat. There are concerns being raised about some forms of vaccination being based on long term evaluation of its use. Surgery is routinely monitored by follow up, because precise long term effects are tricky to know from the initial surgery. Air travel, as a long term phenomena, may be implicated in global warming......an issue alien to the Wright Brothers. As for computers.....well that's still a relatively new technology......give it time for there to arise generational issues. Cloned meat, or GM crops, can only really be tested in the field, and once they're in the field there's no recourse if they turn out to be bad ideas. Some things can only be seen in all their glory and infamy in hindsight.........so if one were to suggest that there are no long term effects, good or bad, from eating cloned meat, they're being premature......by about 20 years or so probably.

sleazy -> RE: Getting away from the natural... (12/28/2006 5:06:27 PM)
Cloned meat, milk, or wheat grown for bread is to my eyes little different from the selectively bred products we have consumed for centuries. As I read I get the impression that your issue is not actually with the cloning or how natural it may be, but the right to choose based on labelling, would that be correct? To me it makes little difference, waking up every morning assumes risks to my long term health, and not waking up would be just the same. Perhaps I might eat something from a cloned source and contract some nasty problem, but I do not think it any more likely than eating something from a source with a reducing rather than static gene-pool. At the end of the day it is for me to worry about here and now, next week is a lesser priorty, 40 years down the line is even much less in my mind 99% of the time. The only way to test anything, not just GM foodstuffs is in the field, that applies to computers, air travel, motor cars, and drugs. As a test facility for anything the lab is a poor choice

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Getting away from the natural... (12/28/2006 5:07:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: stef Neither are vaccinations, surgery, air travel or computers. Will you eschew those things as well? ~stef ....interesting list of potential comparisons to cloned meat. There are concerns being raised about some forms of vaccination being based on long term evaluation of its use. Surgery is routinely monitored by follow up, because precise long term effects are tricky to know from the initial surgery. Air travel, as a long term phenomena, may be implicated in global warming......an issue alien to the Wright Brothers. As for computers.....well that's still a relatively new technology......give it time for there to arise generational issues. Cloned meat, or GM crops, can only really be tested in the field, and once they're in the field there's no recourse if they turn out to be bad ideas. Some things can only be seen in all their glory and infamy in hindsight.........so if one were to suggest that there are no long term effects, good or bad, from eating cloned meat, they're being premature......by about 20 years or so probably. Vaccinations were harmful not long ago. They were using thimerosal (a form of ethylmercury) as a preservative in childhood vaccinations. That's what caused the rise in autism. Even though thimerosal was recently banned in vaccines, it is still used in flu shots. I know I don't want mercury injected into my body. As for cloned meat, I would have to know more about the cloning process before determining whether or not it was safe. No government that would allow children to be injected with mercury laced vaccines can be trusted to ensure the safety of anyone. In other words, they don't care.

Stephann -> RE: Getting away from the natural... (12/28/2006 5:11:59 PM)
Actually, it wouldn't take much effort to write the company or check their website to see if a brand is (or isn't) using genetically modified foods, or drawing on cloned animal food sources. In theory, I don't see any real problem. The practice, however, is a staggeringly difficult ethical question. As we 'engineer' food sources, such as chicken, steak, fish, what prevents us from taking that leap to humans? What happens when humans start to try 'balancing' the earth's population of all species, as we continue to expand our population and eventually inhabit every square mile/kilometer of inhabitable land? We're already seeing the first signs of global impact from our species - the environment. It's not a question of hugging trees and rare butterflies - it's a question of where the butterflies and trees go, if the planet becomes one big city?

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Getting away from the natural... (12/28/2006 5:15:40 PM)
If the government is involved in manufacturing meat, what's to stop them from putting thimerosal in that?

blackwinterbyrd -> RE: Getting away from the natural... (12/28/2006 5:22:06 PM)
did you know all strawberies are grown unnaturally now? They are grown in dishes from frozen strawberry stem cells and then split a few times and finally transferred to dirt. They do this to avoid strawberry viruses; stem cells are virus-free. The strawberry virus won't hurt you, it just costs moeny to have crops wiped out. I believe potatoes are grown the same way now too. I got this info from my biotechnology textbook. All your vitamins, supplements and more than a few pharmaceuticals are made by genetically modified bacteria in giant vats. how is this different from cloning a prize animal? Is it really that different from collecting and diluting semen from a bull so that you can manually implant 1000 cows? Hell, invitro fertalization for humans has been going on legally for years and its soooo creepy and has unforseen consequences for the individuals created this way. At least we know what happens to cloned animals now. It's going on whether you know about it or not.

blackwinterbyrd -> RE: Getting away from the natural... (12/28/2006 5:25:27 PM)
The risk of autism from vaccines has been debunked again and again. For a good example, Japan has ended the mmr vaccine when that faulty 'study' of anecdotal stories from 12 mothers came out in 1990, and the autism rates are still rising exponentially. people's complacency about vaccines is a direct result of the changes those vaccines have made in our country.

juliaoceania -> RE: Getting away from the natural... (12/28/2006 5:29:22 PM)
FR I am not sure if this is a frankenfood or not. I am willing to read the literature on it, keep an open mind, and perhaps I will reject it and perhaps I will not. I will not eat it if I can help it until I know more about it. I know that 90% of things in the store are not good for you, strip out nutrients, have GM products in them, are filled with pesticides and hormones.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Getting away from the natural... (12/28/2006 5:31:40 PM)
MMR wasn't the only vaccine that contained thimerosal. And you're talking about Japan, not the United States. There may still be mercury in the vaccines there. If you would like to learn more, read the article Kennedy wrote called "Deadly Immunity".

Dtesmoac -> RE: Getting away from the natural... (12/28/2006 5:57:21 PM)
Potential susceptability of cloned animals to a single strain of infection apears to be one of the greatest risks.........imagine if the canibals had cloned only native americans, become dependent upon them for a food source and then a nasty European introduced measels......kerpow....food source all gone in one quick epedemic! Please transfer logic to ....pig, cow, chicken, duck, sheep, etc.... and yes there is an element of this at the moment with selective breeding and insemination, which is one (but not the only) reason we use so many antibiotics, vaccinations etc for modern farming..............

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Getting away from the natural... (12/28/2006 7:44:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aviinterra Would you eat it? Do you have concerns? I know it will not be on my table- the long term effects are still unknown and it is not a process nature ever intended. If they have to approve it, fine, but at least give us a label!! Sure. Considering all the chemicals we eat when we buy from generic drugstores now, I doubt it would be much different. Unless a person is a big health nut, only eats free range and ultra organic and never intakes caffeine, alcohol, or any mind altering chemical like advil or drugs, etc etc- I can't see how this step really changes things. Considering the food shortage in so many places, it could be a great step. Like all technologies- depends on how we use it.

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