How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl before? (Full Version)

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Jasmyn -> How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl before? (2/22/2005 10:09:06 AM)

Regardless where on the power spectrum one lies, education about the lifestyle is so important, and like all things educational, we never stop learning and growing.

But I was horrified recently to read on the alt.com site a person touting himself as an 'experienced Master' asking for hints and tips about using gags while in bondage, ie: how is his sub to indicate her discomfort/safeword etc. Call Me pedantic, but this was one of the *first* things I learnt about bondage. Big ups to him however for seeking education, but I did have to question his claim of 'experience'?

Sometime back in the New Zealand scene a question about 'experience' was posed, namely the labelling of 'experienced' when all one had done was a light flogging session or two, or at most having had a five year interest that stemmed as far as owning 'The Loving Dominant', 'Screw the Roses' and having your own a home made flogger.

Sooo...a question for the subs out there. How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl before?

Mistress Jasmyn



quietkitten -> RE: How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl before? (2/22/2005 10:10:56 AM)

I would be interested to know as well. Being completely new to this I have concerns about safety...



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl before? (2/22/2005 10:13:15 AM)

I'm thorough but not vigilant. One of the first things conversations I tend to have with someone is sharing our past experience, where we came from, how we got started, what we've done since then, things we particularly are curious about, etc.

It's definitely important to see where their level is- when it comes to play, when it comes to relationships, and when it comes to relationships like the type you want.

Someone living with a slave for 5 years is VERY different from a man just divorced from a 5 year vanilla marriage. So focus not only on what experience they have, but what TYPE they have and where they want to go with it.

Ultimately you learn by experience itself. If they have experience in things, it will show as you get to know them and do things together.



celestia -> RE: How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl before? (2/22/2005 10:44:16 AM)

quote:

Regardless where on the power spectrum one lies, education about the lifestyle is so important, and like all things educational, we never stop learning and growing.



I love this! You never stop learning. Each experience and person if different and can only add to your knowledge, even if it is to say "hey that is not what i am looking for."

quote:

Sooo...a question for the subs out there. How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl before?


It is more a question of how safe I feel with them not their experience. If you can feel secure with them then you can gage if you wish to travel the road together and learn together or if you would rather have someone know the ropes better than you and bring you up to their understanding. I think both avenues have a lot to offer to potential and experienced slave/subs.

My advice would be to talk first, openly and honestly, and get a feel for your own security before judging if they have the experience you seek.



MsSilvie -> RE: How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl before? (2/22/2005 11:00:13 AM)

"Experienced" is kind of vague when someone uses it to describe themselves. For some people, it means they have done a lot of different activities, have read extensively on safety, talk with others and share their knowledge. For others, it means they tied someone up before, no one died, hence, they are experienced.

If people are honest about their level of experience, that's great. Everyone starts somewhere. I won't hold inexperience against someone as long as they aren't running around trying to tell me what to do. There are activities that you can do safely without a lot of experience. For example, it's hard for me to picture an OTK bare-handed spanking as somehow getting dangerous. There are somethings you need to have a lot of info, as well as perhaps some practice under the guidance of someone who does have a lot of experience.

Any time someone presents themselves as highly experienced, I'll take it with a grain of salt. If you want to know what someone is about, you have to get them talking. What have they done, specifically? If someone states they are in the lifestyle, what groups/organizations are they involved in. If you REALLY want some insight, ask them about mistakes they have made, and how they have learned from them (be prepared to talk about your embarrassing moments too). If someone tells me they have more than a year of extensive experience and they have never made a mistake, I'm just not buying it.



Jasmyn -> RE: How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl before? (2/22/2005 11:02:20 AM)

Fantastic answer Celestia :) thank you.

Disclaimer of course with those who are good at making one feel safe when they are infact very very bad. A case in NZ two years ago happened with a man who used local BDSM resources claiming to be an experienced dominant, to contact subs ended in assault when after meeting him in town at a restaurant and feeling very much at ease with him after dinner, agreed to his offer of giving her a ride home. Once there he jumped her and violated her and took photos. I had met this man sometime before and at first did not recognise his name, let alone know he was operating on our mailing lists etc. Had I known I would have outed him as being dangerous sometime before, and yes witch hunted him. Last I heard he was investigated by the Police over a number of matters.

I hate scaremongering, because there are some very excellent Tops out there, but does anyone ask for references?



Jasmyn -> RE: How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl before? (2/22/2005 11:10:45 AM)

Excellent advice MsSlivie! ;) reminds Me of that saying 'never ask a question you don't already know the answer too'...because yes, someone who can't claim to have a made a mistake while claiming experience is dreaming.



celestia -> RE: How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl before? (2/22/2005 11:13:41 AM)

quote:

Disclaimer of course with those who are good at making one feel safe when they are infact very very bad.


This is a very sad but true fact. I guess I should elaborate. Being safe does not mean just getting a name and chatting. Personally I would never go meet a new Dom without having his information, name, #, address and where we would be. Then leaving this information with someone else so another would be aware of where I was and could inform proper channels if it got " hokie". Also a good safety net is to meet in public places with groups, go to public events, and it never hurts to know some self defense. Am I saying this is going to insure you aren't with a nut, no but it may lessen that chance. You could also get contacts of ppl that have been with that Dom and see what their feelings are on his experience and safety.



quietkitten -> RE: How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl before? (2/22/2005 11:16:24 AM)

Ok, well now I am just getting terrified.... perhaps I can live as a Vanilla after all...............[:(]



Jasmyn -> RE: How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl before? (2/22/2005 11:22:05 AM)

Yeah she did have all that information and her sister knew where she was going etc...just unfortunately one those things that happen out there in the big bad world. :(

Anyway back on topic... being great input so far :)

Jasmyn



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl before? (2/22/2005 11:30:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

I hate scaremongering, because there are some very excellent Tops out there, but does anyone ask for references?


No, certainly not online. In order to judge a reference, you have to be able to know where the referencer is coming from. There's a lot of jilted ex's out there and a lot of friends. I go with my own intuition and experiences.

Now, if I see someone at a party and they tell me some stuff, I'm not going to ignore it. But I make my own judgements and decide for myself who I want to get to know and possibly involved with (barring the obvious "unless the Owner says" caveat).

We're independent mature adults. Safety is important and awareness is as well. But I can meet people in public and feel fine. We've all heard scary stories and no one can say they don't happen- but I don't think they happen often and I think if you use good judgement as we're supposed to have been taught by growing up, that we should feel confident meeting people as we choose. Use common sense and be aware, don't let paranoia and fear rule your life.

So references are a waste of time for me. If I don't trust someone to the point that I need to ask others to help make up my mind, it's not worth it. As well, if I don't trust someone enough to meet them without a babysitter, I just won't meet them. I don't do half measures. Not worth the risk to me.




EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl before? (2/22/2005 11:32:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: quietkitten

Ok, well now I am just getting terrified.... perhaps I can live as a Vanilla after all...............[:(]


Kitten I assume you've met strangers before? I assume you've begun conversations with people who you did not ever see before that day? And you're still alive here and typing.

This is the same deal. Don't get overwhelmed, I know it's easy when you're new. But this is just like the life you've been living before. You haven't lost any judgement skills you had before you found out about any of this unless you choose to ignore them.




sprite67 -> . (2/22/2005 12:36:57 PM)


.



MsSilvie -> RE: How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl before? (2/22/2005 5:54:20 PM)

Hey kitten,

Meeting people isn't nearly as scary a process as it sounds. Everyone has horror stories. You have to keep in mind that while the stories are true, they are a very, very tiny fraction of the interactions that go on every day with folks. Bad things happen in the vanilla world also. Trust your instincts, if someone seems like they are a little out of control or frightening, then don't arrange to meet. There isn't any safe call system in the world that makes it safe to meet a wacko. [;)]

Most of the sincere dominants I know will really go out of their way to make someone feel comfortable with an initial meet. They should agree to meet in a vanilla forum, like for coffee. They shouldn't pressure you into playing immediately. In fact, that is one of my hard limits, I don't play on the first date. Join a local group (heck, join a bunch if you can!). Munches are a great way to meet folks and get a feel for people. You can also use a munch as a meeting place for a potential top. If they refuse to come to a munch, that's a big ol' red flag.

I've never had anyone ask me for references, although I wouldn't be insulted if it happened. One trick I have learned from my vanilla life is you can often get more info from secondary references. Ask the reference you get all the questions you want. And then ask the reference if there is anyone else that you might be able to get info from. And then, do the same thing with them. A lot of times, once you have gone 2 or 3 levels away from the primary reference, you are getting a more accurate picture of the person you are asking about. References are a good source of info, but like any information, you sometimes have to filter out some noise.

Good luck and be safe!



quietkitten -> RE: How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl before? (2/23/2005 10:01:21 AM)

I guess I am just still very unsure of myself.
I am presently having online discussions with someone nearby, and we are tentatively talking about meeting in the next few months. My insecurities are surfacing, and I suppose that it part of it..



songbird26 -> RE: How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl before? (2/23/2005 10:47:07 AM)

Not vigilant at all, really. I honestly don't care about how many years of experience the dominant has (though there are things I hope he's had instruction in before trying: certain toys and procedures especially). But the fact that he "spent ten years apprenticed to the world's premiere singletail expert OMG!!!!" doesn't mean a thing to me if the man can't dominate easily and naturally.

For me, it's a matter of body language, personal intelligence and honor, self-control and, who knows, maybe pheromones, but I know it when I meet it. He could be a rank beginner or a 20-year scene veteran, but the body language doesn't lie. And in fact, the dominant who simply dominates because it's who he or she IS, instead of trying to conform to an arbitrary set of rules or behaviors or expectations set by the 'scene' as a whole, will absolutely be most attractive to me. Less affectation and artificiality, more genuine nature coming to the fore.

As you might guess, this makes any exclusively online relationship a complete impossiblity for me. *grin* Hard to judge body language via email...

(re. references: I spent years in HR, and know that references are generally useless. Of course, you'll only use people who LIKE you as references...the ones who don't never get to air their opinion in matters such as these. A good gut instinct and common sense, just as in vanilla dating, are the best tools for the bdsm date bag).



Jasmyn -> RE: How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl before? (2/24/2005 10:07:53 AM)

If someone is claiming experience I do think references have their place, but like its been alluded too, its easy enough to have someone speak well of you, but the fourth or fifth, hmmm? The tip you gave to dig a little deeper is excellent.

Asides from the fundamentals, ie clear communication of expectations, etc, safe meeting proceedures, etc; I would like to put together a list of possibly tips for people to keep in mind when engaging in a potential new D/s meeting/relationship.

To recap a little

EmeraldSlave

See where their level is- play, relationships, and relationships [b(esp) ]like the type you want.

Focus not only on what experience they have, but what TYPE they have and where they want to go with it.

Be/feel confident meeting people (retain your own power).

Don't get overwhelmed (keep a level head).

MsSilvie

Get them talking (be inquisitive).

If they speak of experience, ask what/where, & ask the question 'what mistakes they made and what did they learn from them'.

References are a good source of info, but like any information, you sometimes have to filter out some noise.

songbird26

Trust your gut instinct & common sense, & watch the body language.

Am very pleased and thankful with the ideas that have being put forward so far and would love to hear more suggestions if people have them.

Jasmyn



ProtagonistLily -> RE: How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl before? (2/24/2005 10:18:09 AM)

quote:

(re. references: I spent years in HR, and know that references are generally useless. Of course, you'll only use people who LIKE you as references...the ones who don't never get to air their opinion in matters such as these. A good gut instinct and common sense, just as in vanilla dating, are the best tools for the bdsm date bag).


One would think, but that's not alway so. Case in point: I was approached by a male submissive here a while back who said he was in the local scene and knew people I knew. He supplied me with 2 differant people to use as a reference. Neither person was particularly flattering where he was concerned. They both had some misgivings about him, expressed them tactfully, and were honest in their apparaisals. I felt that one was a bit bitter, and perhaps had an axe to grind, so I met him anyway.

The references had nothing to do with my decision that he was not suitable for me. However, they didn't help any either.

Lily



LASub4Real -> RE: How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl befo (3/2/2005 11:20:52 PM)

 
Thank You for introducing a great topic Mz Jasmyn

I think that experience is often sited in two different ways: The first is way is defined as anyone who has actually had a bdsm experiece is experienced. It's a way of saying, "I'm not a cyber BDSMer." I admit that it doesn't say a lot but I get the impression sometimes that there are a lot of folks that have NO BDSM experience on the net, whether they will admit it or not.

The second way I've seen it used is to describe a seasoned player—someone who can be considered an expert.

I personally grade "experience" in a Dominant based on two variants: time and effort. There are a lot of people who've been in the game for a long time who've simply put no effort into actual education. They don't read, they don't discuss, they don't ask questions of people who've been in in the lifestyle longer than themselves. These people are "experienced" in a sense but have not even begun to seek "experience" in quite another sense.

On the other hand, some people are born bookworms and educate themselves voraciously, then discuss what they've learned exhaustively. They understand all of the theory intellectually but have very little real world experience.

Which is truly "experienced?"



Chilli -> RE: How vigilant are YOU at determining the experience of that new Domina/Dom you want to crawl befo (3/4/2005 12:31:38 AM)

Mz Jasmyn and others:

I think a problem here is because *you dont know, what you dont know*. So you may think you know a WHOLE lot about stuff, but then it all turns to custard and you realise you were out of your depth completely.

I have the most amazing innate bullshit detector, and it has not let me down so far (touch wood) but have seen many people fall into the most obvious traps.

A classic vanilla (hate that term) is the young girl seeing the married man with the pregnant wife who doesnt understand him. I would consider this scenario as a type of abuse also.




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