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Not a solution... - 12/28/2006 12:26:40 PM

Chaingang

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"License plate scanners help find those with unpaid parking tickets"
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/27/BAGRON6E411.DTL

---

That's not the solution they need, it's the first blow in a war against the people over issues like fairness, privacy, control of private property, etc.

I mean, have you ever wondered what gives a city the right to meter charge or dispense tickets for the use of an area called a "right of way"? The streets belong equally to everyone and to no one at once.

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RE: Not a solution... - 12/28/2006 12:40:55 PM

RazorJAK

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http://www.ghostplates.com/

Fully legal because you ARE able to see the license plate when looking head-on.

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RE: Not a solution... - 12/28/2006 12:43:07 PM

SirKenin

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I have seen those before. Very cool.

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RE: Not a solution... - 12/28/2006 1:11:56 PM

farglebargle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

"License plate scanners help find those with unpaid parking tickets"
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/27/BAGRON6E411.DTL

---

That's not the solution they need, it's the first blow in a war against the people over issues like fairness, privacy, control of private property, etc.

I mean, have you ever wondered what gives a city the right to meter charge or dispense tickets for the use of an area called a "right of way"? The streets belong equally to everyone and to no one at once.

People give up their private property rights in their automobiles when they sign the registration and license applications AGREEING to abide by the States Motor Vehicle Code ( or Law, as appropriate )...

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RE: Not a solution... - 12/28/2006 1:50:49 PM

Chaingang

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I'll call that the "contract of adhesion" theory, farglebargle. It's another thing that's impossible to challenge - there is no real alternative, traffic court is a kangaroo court, and rights of appeal are only to the next highest court and most probably without a record or transcript of any kind. The people just get bled on this stuff.

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RE: Not a solution... - 12/28/2006 2:10:15 PM

Chaingang

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RazorJAK
http://www.ghostplates.com/

I couldn't decide if that's legal for CA. See:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d03/vc5201.htm

particularly sectiosn f and g...

I'm not really obsessed about these things because I'm a careful driver and park legally at all times. I just think it's wrong in places like SF where sometimes people have few choices and paid parking can be quite expensive.

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RE: Not a solution... - 12/28/2006 3:00:08 PM

RazorJAK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

quote:

ORIGINAL: RazorJAK
http://www.ghostplates.com/

I couldn't decide if that's legal for CA. See:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d03/vc5201.htm

particularly sectiosn f and g...

I'm not really obsessed about these things because I'm a careful driver and park legally at all times. I just think it's wrong in places like SF where sometimes people have few choices and paid parking can be quite expensive.

Section f not so much as you could argue that it is a security device. Though Section g does fuck things up.

Leave it to California ... yet another reason I'd never consider living there.

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RE: Not a solution... - 12/28/2006 4:08:15 PM

sleazy

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Certainly here in the UK, the use of CCTV systems to track/trace motors by plate is very common practice. To list just four uses that occur within a couple of miles of me.

1) automated speed traps http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso6.htm
2) toll collection http://www.cclondon.com/imagingandcameras.shtml
3) traffic flow monitoring http://www.trafficmaster.co.uk/page.cfm?key=network
4) general enforcement (taxes, roadiworthiness certificate, insurance and just about anything else that can be found out from a plate) http://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/section-item.asp?sid=66&iid=747

Big brother ? http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article334686.ece

In the last instance almost all specialist police traffic cars have a video system with character recognition that allows the crew to know pretty much anything that might interest them without them physically noticing you, the system will flash up an alert immediately and give the crew a note as to exactly why they should be intersted in your car, such as no record of insurance, used in crime, disqualified driver etc etc. Gas stations also make use of a similar ANPR system to automatically record vehicles for theft of petrol, credit card fraud etc

For all these reason any form of obscuring the plate from "magic sprays" to simple road grime including the "ghost plates" is illegal here.

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RE: Not a solution... - 12/28/2006 4:17:24 PM

juliaoceania

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You want to hear something crazy?

A few years ago they installed cameras at stop lights in my city to stop people from running red lights. It was touted to stop people from breaking this law and to improve safety. So a couple of years later they take the cameras out, and here is the crazy part, they were too effective. In other words they could not catch enough people running the red lights to make it worthwhile to have cameras at intersections because people quit running them. Now the cameras are gone, people will run the red lights again without being ticketed. This was one traffic control I thought was GREAT. No one wants idiots running red lights after all.

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RE: Not a solution... - 12/28/2006 4:32:06 PM

Stephann

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

I'll call that the "contract of adhesion" theory, farglebargle. It's another thing that's impossible to challenge - there is no real alternative, traffic court is a kangaroo court, and rights of appeal are only to the next highest court and most probably without a record or transcript of any kind. The people just get bled on this stuff.

You mean, besides the old, boring method of electing representatives willing to change the laws? Or running for office, when you don't like how the system is working?

Nah... speeders -must- have a good reason for breaking the law. Try taking the bus sometime.

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RE: Not a solution... - 12/28/2006 4:34:43 PM

Chaingang

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juliaoceania:

Captain Obvious is here to explain your story to you. Traffic enforcement is about revenue collection - which is why I have always opposed all measures increasing such revenue collection. It just goes against the grain. The fact is that they need people violating the laws so that they can then penalize them for doing so. Cha-ching!!! The only other option is to keep making the laws harder and harder to obey in some way - say by setting the speed limits so low that people feel compelled to violate them. I seem to recall speed limits of 75 mph on CA highways back in the 70s.

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RE: Not a solution... - 12/28/2006 5:14:04 PM

Stephann

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No question that laws are used to fund local governments. I seem to recall part of speed laws were affected in the 70s by an oil embargo, though. I was just a kid, perhaps someone might offer more on that.

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