LadyEllen
Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
The real question is why do men all over the world allow themselves to be mobilised into killing themselves and each other? Saying "these people hate these people" answers nothing. You have to get beneath the political events and ask yourself why do "these people hate these people" and do "these people really hate these people"?
The same cause is at work, in all of human history. Starting way back with family groups of early humans, which banded together for mutual protection, for better survival and breeding potential, and to maintain control over resources through excluding other similar groups, whether by fear of violence or actual force.
As history progressed, these groups became larger; clans, tribes and eventually nations. But always with the same driving factors. The mindset was one of us and them, based on territory, language and culture. Groups sometimes amalgamated for common cause, sometimes divided. Groups sometimes traded goods as much as blows. But always, it has been them and us, theirs and ours, and war has erupted only where one group has offended another, or where one group has thought itself strong enough to defeat another.
In European terms, France was one of the first great nations, with more territory and resources, more people, more power - much of which derived from the support of the Vatican. Germany meanwhile until the middle of the 19th century, was a collection of minor kingdoms and principalities. From the time of the slaughter of the Saxons by the Franks as soldiers of the Pope sent to convert them, the German people suffered the most from France, because of the relative inequalities. Sure, France attacked all its neighbours at some point, but those wars were far more equitable in terms of balance of power.
Whilst we in England regularly had run ins with the French too, there are two notable differences between our experience and the German experience; firstly, we never had the French running amok through our country, and secondly, we did not face the constant presence of France on our doorsteps all the while due to the Channel. One can easily imagine in such circumstances, that the Germans would see the French as bogey men, to be feared and loathed and destroyed with as much hatred as possible, as foreigners who could and would come at any time, to kill and destroy you, and further see them as arrogant and overbearing inevitable victors who could and would demand anything and everything for you to be left alone. From there, one can easily imagine that the French would see the Germans as uncultured and uncivilised (because one cannot build when one is constantly being destroyed), rebellious barbarians who did not recognise their place in the order of things.
Such was the case throughout history; seething hatred between two peoples, only one of which had the power to dominate the other. Imagine England and Scotland at the time of Wallace, only magnified across ten centuries. When Germany acquired the power to do so, through unification, they attacked France and defeated them with the ferocity of a thousand years of hatred. Such hatred is not casual, it is not engineered artificially - it is deep down anger arising from abuse. To expect anything different, would be to hope that humans are not humans after all.
And we are humans. We group together, even within the nations we have created we divide into clans and tribes based on this or that commonality or common cause. And when there is a threat to our group, whether that is to our family, our friends or our nation, we come together more strongly, to resist and overcome that threat. And we come together in antipathy to the source of threat, generating anger and thence hatred toward it. That is how humans and human societies work.
Soldiers, workers and everyone else who becomes involved in a war effort, do not do so because they are stupid, easily misled by governments or kings, but because they perceive a threat and recognise that together they stand a better chance of survival and victory. Their combined anger and hatred is what gives impetus to their resistance and effort.
Perhaps nowadays, in an era where we have had by and large peace throughout our region for decades, where former rivals and enemies have recognised that cooperation via amalgamating our nation groups into a larger group is in everyone's interest, we have forgotten to an extent, the nature of human conflict, and maybe also fallen victim to the idea that everyone thinks as we do. The UK, France, Germany are now friends and partners; but one has only to look at the disturbances at soccer matches to see that this amalgamation has not yet erased our human natures, even if to an extent it has smoothed relations.
Here's a thing. A few years ago now, I was in Marseille for a conference. Present were me as the only English person there, a few Germans and a whole lotta French people. Individually, we all got on fine. Once all the French were together though, I found myself drifting into the German group - two groups had been defined, purely on linguistic grounds, when we were all nothing but individuals there. True, war never broke out in the bar, but the seeds were sown for them and us, even with educated, cultured, civilised adults - how long then before some misunderstanding or disagreement over seats or whatever took place? Ending in a fight worthy of any two gangs of hooligans?
E
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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.
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