quote:

ORIGINAL: hejira92

Brattiness and playfulness are two different things. Quoting Young Frankenstein or, (more commonly in our case) Blazing Saddles, is playful. And, thankfully, Master gets my sense of humor. He enjoys my wit and my warped mind and He says that if you can laugh at yourself, you will never be without laughter.
 
BUT, brattiness is willful disobedience, trying to get your own way or making excuses. This is unacceptable, un-submissive behavior. I feel it it nothing less than trying to top from the bottom. My reaction is a big UUUUUGH! with a shoulder shrug of disgust.
 
Master and I have discussed this subject- will He ever be bored with me. He wanted a good girl- not a brat. His mind is constantly working, our journey has just begun. He says boring is a word He will never connect with me.
 
I do understand the occasional need for extra attention. But there are healthy ways to get it. Every once in a while, I feel emotionally out of sorts- I know at these times that a hard "beating" will do me good- I feel the need for the catharsis of enduring the pain and the emotional release. But I recognise the need and bring a proper request to Master. A request for hard use appeals to His sadistic side and He also recognises my emotional needs, so He oftens accedes to the request. I guess I could get a similar result by acting out- NOT. Because of my make up, I cannot even stand the thought of His dissappointment or censure. And this fits His needs. He often says that He wants to WANT to do it, not HAVE to. Punishment is neccessary, but I will never seek it. And I think that those who do may be playing at submission. It's the difference between acting submissive and being a submissive.
 
Brattiness has no place in TPE. 
 
 
 

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Yes and no is my answer.  If one is never disobedient...they are not testing boundaries...they are no probing...and, ultimately, they are not growing.

In any relationship, if the people involved do not grow, the relationship will die.  That happened between my ex wife and I some years back...we were stagnating as people and our relationship collapsed as a result.

However, rules should exist for a reason, and they should be respected.  If a slave is misbehaving specifically to instigate punishment, there is something out of kilter in that relationship. 

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ORIGINAL: TypeAsub1

Absolutely not so.  Growth doesn't come from misbehaviour.  Growth comes from accepting and meeting challenges - be they, emotional, physical, intellectual or spiritual. 

Physical punishment is useless.  It rewards most masochists and submissives who seek attention and it does positively nothing to address the transgression or redefine behaviour.  It takes far more personal growth to manage yourself appropriately and continue to strive to meet the challenging expectations provided by a thoughtful and creative Dom.. than it does to act like a silly brat. 

If you want to spank, flog or otherwise cause pain on someone for fun or exploration - by all means do so.  But using physical punishement to achieve any sort of growth is absurd.. and intentionally behaving bratty or committing transgressions is equally absurd and not the least bit submissive.  If anything it's an excellent means of manipulating a doms behaviour. 

A brat who misbehaves intentionally and successfully gets the attention she is seeking - is the one who is running the show.  A dom who allows themselves to be manipulated in such a fashion inhibits personal growth for both parties.. he/she certainly isn't cultivating it.

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ORIGINAL: TypeAsub1


Physical punishment is useless.  It rewards most masochists and submissives who seek attention and it does positively nothing to address the transgression or redefine behaviour. 

Well i for one have to disagree with this.  i am a daddys girl, not a brat (although i can be at times) and physical punishment worked fine for me....and it most definitely addressed the transgression and redefined my behavior.  And because of the groups i used to belong to, i know several others who this worked for too.  And if my former 'Daddy' was a member here, i'm sure he'd have lots to say about this as well since he witnessed the impact first hand.
 
i am not a masochist, and i won't speak for them on how physical punishment works for them, but because i hated discipline spankings, i was not inclined to act out to get one.  Others may do it differently but the above statement is not true for someone like me or others who employ physical punishment in the same context.

If you want to spank, flog or otherwise cause pain on someone for fun or exploration - by all means do so.  But using physical punishement to achieve any sort of growth is absurd..

As i said, this is not true in every case.  You are certainly entitled to your opinion but what i state from my own experiences is fact....not just opinion.
 
Daddysgirl

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ORIGINAL: eyesopened

i've never thought bratty behavior was attractive in anyone but i once attempted a relationship with a great guy, Dom, who liked to inflict "punishment" but mentally He needed a "reason" to punish.  i ended up feeling like i could do nothing right because He was constantly looking for "reasons" even when i knew i was being obedient.  He would do well with a brat but it just wasn't going to work for me.  Obviously for Him, obedience was boring.

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One of them also said "what's life without getting a spankin for misbehavin?"

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ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: TypeAsub1


Physical punishment is useless.  It rewards most masochists and submissives who seek attention and it does positively nothing to address the transgression or redefine behaviour. 

Well i for one have to disagree with this.  i am a daddys girl, not a brat (although i can be at times) and physical punishment worked fine for me....and it most definitely addressed the transgression and redefined my behavior.  And because of the groups i used to belong to, i know several others who this worked for too.  And if my former 'Daddy' was a member here, i'm sure he'd have lots to say about this as well since he witnessed the impact first hand.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

So last night I actually hung out in the AOL chatrooms, which I haven't done in about a year.  Had lots of fun adventures there.   One in particular included a room with two self-professed brats.

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Do many people really think that behaving leads to a boring life?  And why?

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ORIGINAL: stef

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Yes and no is my answer.  If one is never disobedient...they are not testing boundaries...they are no probing...and, ultimately, they are not growing.

Nonsense.  You don't have to be disobediant to grow. 

~stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: TypeAsub1

Absolutely not so.  Growth doesn't come from misbehaviour.  Growth comes from accepting and meeting challenges - be they, emotional, physical, intellectual or spiritual. 

Physical punishment is useless.  It rewards most masochists and submissives who seek attention and it does positively nothing to address the transgression or redefine behaviour.  It takes far more personal growth to manage yourself appropriately and continue to strive to meet the challenging expectations provided by a thoughtful and creative Dom.. than it does to act like a silly brat. 

If you want to spank, flog or otherwise cause pain on someone for fun or exploration - by all means do so.  But using physical punishement to achieve any sort of growth is absurd.. and intentionally behaving bratty or committing transgressions is equally absurd and not the least bit submissive.  If anything it's an excellent means of manipulating a doms behaviour. 

A brat who misbehaves intentionally and successfully gets the attention she is seeking - is the one who is running the show.  A dom who allows themselves to be manipulated in such a fashion inhibits personal growth for both parties.. he/she certainly isn't cultivating it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Yes and no is my answer.  If one is never disobedient...they are not testing boundaries...they are no probing...and, ultimately, they are not growing.

In any relationship, if the people involved do not grow, the relationship will die.  That happened between my ex wife and I some years back...we were stagnating as people and our relationship collapsed as a result.

However, rules should exist for a reason, and they should be respected.  If a slave is misbehaving specifically to instigate punishment, there is something out of kilter in that relationship. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: TypeAsub1

Physical punishment is useless. 

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Physical punishments I have found to be most effective for minor infractions...the sort of disobedience that arises from a lack of mindfulness moreso than outright rebellion. 

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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

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Physical punishments I have found to be most effective for minor infractions...the sort of disobedience that arises from a lack of mindfulness moreso than outright rebellion. 

....talking about over prescribing....

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ORIGINAL: HollyS

Certainly the need for corporal punishment is seperate from whether or not a submissive is "bratty," but I'm confused by how you say this works for you.  You say that physical punishment "addressed the transgression and redefined my behavior," -- are you saying that without physical punishment you would have continued the misbehavior?   Or that there is something specific about physical punishment that brings you in line  -- that other non-physical forms don't work for you?  Why do you think that is?

Before i met that Daddy Dom, i had not had a spanking ever in my life.  As a child, i never really required a lot of discipline anyway but once i hit high school, those 'good girl' days were gone.  my father, God love 'im, really didn't know what to do with me so he grounded me....which only worked until i started jumping out of my bedroom window (which he never knew even until the day he died).
 
Before i met this Dom, if anyone ever told me they would spank my ass, i definitely would have replied with 'You and whose army?'
 
So fast forward to the Daddy Dom.  We talked about a lot of things before we got involved and i was up front with what i considered my bad habits.  The worst was tardiness....been late ever since i can remember.  And i came to realize it was really due to poor time management on my part.
 
Anyhoo...he told me he did not like tardiness right off the bat.  Very early on, i was 20 minutes late to meeting him.  Of course i had a good reason (in my eyes, i always did).  As i was leaving my apartment, the elderly lady upstairs caught me in the hall and i just could not get away from her.  Yak, yak, yak!  So i was late.  Well that reason was not acceptable to him. 
 
When we got to his house, he sat at the kitchen table and called me over.  He took my hand, put me over his lap, lifted my skirt, pulled down my pantyhose and proceeded to spank my bare ass.  i was totally mortified!  At first i tried to get away, which he was a pretty big guy so that wasn't happening.  Then i yelled for him to stop, which he did not, then i started begging him to stop, then i started apologizing all over the place, and then i started crying.  After awhile, he stopped.  He stood me up, i was still crying, and pretty much looked like shit. 
 
He sat me on his lap, reassured me until i stopped crying, told me the next time it would be worse, then sent me to the bathroom to clean up.  Right there, the basis of our relationships was established.  That was his way of doing things....and it worked for me as well. 
 
Not being late in the future was quite the challenge for me.  i really, really had to work hard with the time management thing.  But for the first time in my life, i was on time.  And for the first time, it really mattered to me.
 
He did the same thing about my swearing (another bad habit).  Needless to say, when  i came home saying 'crap' and 'darn' instead of shit and damn, my kids were shocked.  But i really felt good about the changes....and i felt good about myself.
 
Meanwhile, he did try some other things like writing lines and corner time.  They did not work.  The positive reward thing did not work for me either.  But he knew all of this and it just happened to work perfectly for him because he really was quite paternal and had been a disciplinarian for years (he was 56 at the time)....and was a Daddy Dom long before i met him.
 
So why did they work when other punishment didn't?  Oh, i asked myself that same question a thousand times.  my guess is twofold....one is that i really hate pain like that (and he was severe) and that is why the physical part worked; and two is that the entire experience was quite humiliating to me.  i mean, baring my ass like that, the begging (which i never do), the apologies (which i never do) and the bawling (which i never do) were all quite humbling.  So it also involved a pyschological aspect to it and with the two combined, nothing else compared. 
 
So i did not brat to get a spanking.  i am not a masochist.  i did not enjoy them....nor get any pleasure out of them.  In fact, i dreaded them and did my best to avoid them.  i think you can pretty much equate them to parent/child spankings....same intent....only between adults.  So maybe now you can see how they both addressed the transgression and redefined my behavior?
 
i'm sure you didn't expect this long of a response but i really couldn't explain 'why' without some background.  i hope i answered your questions.

DG 

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I believe we 'breed' brats.  I've noticed how at cofee's or munches everyone is paying attention to the bratty little submissive bouncing from knee to knee.  Very rarely is there a lot of attention paid to the quiet sub who is cleaning up after everyone and eager to serve and please. 

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

…He wondered what Master in his right mind would not want a slave he could rely on all the time?  He said he finds nothing boring at all about the fact that he can count on me doing whatever he tells me to do, when he tells me, or that I won't do something he tells me not to do.  Confidence in my obedience allows him to venture into other areas to enjoy with me… He said one of his greatest joys is watching me glow in my submission, happy in my service to him.  He said he truly enjoys basking in the reward of our combined efforts.  How else can we continue to grow and evolve if he were forever correcting me on the same principles?...

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

… Dominants, who have difficulty creating excitement, can appreciate having a resource to use without having to create or maintain a dominant persona. It works for the parties involved and I can appreciate that any other option is boring [to them].

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ORIGINAL: agirl

Lots of people don't want *their style of serious D/s* dismissed as a kink.....

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ORIGINAL: eyesopened

i've never thought bratty behavior was attractive in anyone but i once attempted a relationship with a great guy, Dom, who liked to inflict "punishment" but mentally He needed a "reason" to punish.  i ended up feeling like i could do nothing right because He was constantly looking for "reasons" even when i knew i was being obedient.  He would do well with a brat but it just wasn't going to work for me.  Obviously for Him, obedience was boring.