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RobertCloud -> RE: advice needed/question (12/31/2006 1:13:58 PM)
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Being a former Gorean, the way the Gorean lifestyle is SUPPOSED to be and the way it is are two very different things. It is supposed to be about honor and truth. Loyalty and trust above all things, and to lie would be considered a disgrace by any true Gorean, but unfortunately that is not the way it is in practice.
The way it is in practice is that deceit and treachery are common place, and lies are everywhere. Stabbing someone in the back or luring someone into a collar are looked upon as winning a prize. Those things are held in higher esteem than honor and truth. In many cases I have seen one day a man swear an oath of fealty to one Home Stone and within an hour swear that same oath to another Home Stone without ever telling the Ubar (Leader) of the first that he was leaving, and then play spy for the second group against the first. I have seen people play roleplay where they have supposedly made bloodoaths, which to a Red Savage is Life Binding, and would never break it, never, and yet in the very same day that person would turn around and treat the one that was supposed to then be his blood brother as if he were his enemy.
So the fact that a Gorean Master lied to a girl to get her to believe she had a sister is not surprising or shocking to me in anyway. Yet, you also mentioned that he said he had someone else he was talking to but she was currently offline due to computer problems. In many ways, that would seem as if he was not lying, he very well could have been planning to have both of them as his slaves, or was leading to that. Jumping the gun in his terminology in Gor is not considered lying, even if to those of us outside of the Gorean lifestyle that form of exageration is lying.
One of the reasons I left Gor was because to me a lie is a lie period. Honor is Honor period. I could not accept the roleplay that went on, and the lack of concern for the hearts of the people behind the screen names. I refused to allow people that were in my room to be cyber killed, and refused to accept any cyber kills that were done in any other room. Goreans hated me and wrote horrible things about me, and I in turn wrote horrible things about their lack of honor and their lack of ethics. I also wrote about how they took what was supposed to be a fantasy series of books and carried it too far. Yes, there were many aspects of the books you could incorporate into a Master/slave lifestyle and have a wonderful life, but to try to live a fully Gorean lifestyle was being foolish and trying to live a life of Dungeons and Dragons as the majority of those caught up in the Gorean Lifestyle are more than likely old AD&D addicts.
Now.. back to the key point though... lying at the infancy of a relationship... It is difficult to overcome and make a relationship work when either the Dominant or the submissive in a relationship lies in the beginning of a relationship (I am using Dominant to refer to Dominant/Master and submissive to refer to submissive/slave).
However, there may be extenuating circumstances and the one responsible for the lying if they come out and confess the lie before the other finds out then the victim of the incident must decide if they are willing to accept the reasons and try to rebuild the trust again or not.
Say that a submissive has been told they are fat and grotesque all of their lives. Their family has told them this, then later their boyfriends, then spouse. The submissive's self-esteem is very low. She (again I am using the feminine but it could be masculine) does not think and Dominant will give her the time of day if they know what she really looks like, but she is lonely and wants just to talk with someone. One day she gets brave and sees someone that she is attracted to and emails them. She does not have a picture on her profile, she prays he will not ask, but alas he does.
So she sends him one of a friend of hers. Someone she sees is attractive, about the same hair color and height, and immediately the Dominant takes a strong interest in her. It only confirms to her that her looks were not worthy, he likes her friend so she does not tell him it is not her, she just talks to him and as she talks and gets to know him she finds out that he is real. He is not a player, he is a true Master, and one she has dreamed of all her life.
The day comes when he asks if she has any other pictures, nothing nude, just something else. Now she has to make a choice and she decides it is time to confess. She is in tears and tells him that she knows he will never talk to him again, that please believe her, she knows how much he hates lies and it is the only lie she has ever told him. She explains the reason, and how she had thought that he would have only talked to her for a day or two and then vanished like every other Dominant had. She had no clue that he would stick around and that her feelings would grow so deeply, she shows him her true picture.
It does not matter whether she is a beautiful woman at this point or whether the others were right... the point is, she lied and has confessed it and explained it. Does the Dominant turn his back on her and walk away because of this one lie that she told out of fear of rejection because of what everyone in her life had been telling her, or does he as a true Dominant begin to take the time to do what he is supposed to do and build her self-esteem. A Dominant nurtures and he takes the weaknesses that are within the submissive and makes them strengths. A Dominant in this situation may have even chosen not to look at the picture and still told her to stay that he would have worked with her and helped her to see her beauty.
As it turned out, she was as beautiful as the picture she had sent. Why anyone would ever say she was ugly the Dominant did not know. She told him that while she was married she did gain a lot of weight, but before she was married she weighed less than she did in that picture. She would not reveal her true weight... lol... saying a gentleman never asks a lady her weight. But she gave a range and for a woman of 5'-5 a weight of 155 to 165 is not bad, and she is losing weight as well.
So, in every case a lie in the infancy of a relationship does not mean that the relationship is doomed, in some cases it can even strengthen the relationship.
I am not in favor of lying at anytime, I am strongly opposed to it. In fact, I even go to an extreme for myself when I break a promise to myself. If I promise myself I will lose ten pounds in the next month and I only lose 9 I have a way of sacrifice that I perform for I broke my oath, I lied to myself. I am very strict about it. To me it is very important, and it is why the majority of the relationships I have tried to have have failed.
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