RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (Full Version)

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pixelslave -> RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (1/2/2007 1:25:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

When I wrote that it was in the context of poly relationships. 

 
Ooops!  My apologies LotusSong, I missed your intended context!  Perhaps you can blame it on my impending senility! [;)]
 
 
quote:
I don't know about you, but I don't think I've seen a bunch of blue hairs living in lust in their advancing years. (unless it's a forced nursing home situation. However, Sun City gets pretty frisky, I hear.)


I'm reminded of the silver haired country singer, nicknamed "the Silver Fox" Charlie Rose? (sorry, can't recall the exact last name) who had the hit song titled "No one knows what goes on behind closed doors!" [:)]
 
 - pixel



LotusSong -> RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (1/2/2007 1:34:33 PM)

You were close :) Charlie Rich.
 
 
 
 



slavebrandyj -> RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (1/2/2007 1:48:04 PM)

I will make this one last post to my own foolishly planned reason for even asking the question.
I just now found out that the Lady I was released by has read this thread and is mad and upset since She totally misinterpreted some things I said. She thinks I said that She wanted only play partners or multiple subs or slaves.
Let me make this crystal clear..... I never suggested She wanted that at all. I know what She wanted! The very same thing I did. OK, She changed Her mind about me. So I am having all kinds of trouble dealing with it. So I foolishly made a new profile and as She said, tell the world and a bunch of strangers what happened. But of course only my side. We all know there are two sides to every story. All I wanted was answers. What I got for my efforts is just pushing Her away more! Who said love is a madness? They are right.
The woman I love is the most intelligent, most honorable, sincere and loving woman I have ever known or had the honor of just knowing Her. I did not come here to shame her or put her life out for all to see.
I am trying hard to correct this foolish attempt to get help. I am sorry for it.
I do not want or ask for anyone's pity. So please do not accuse me of that. It has already been done.
Thank you all that have given your thoughts. I meant well and know all of you do too. I guess she is right in that I must learn to keep my private life...private.
Goodbye      



thetammyjo -> RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (1/2/2007 2:53:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavebrandyj

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo


So you have choices.

1) move on and try to find someone who is closer to your expectations; I think this is unlikely to work unless you also take the next choice

quote:

2) work on your expectations and making them more realistic


Now this sounds like I should lower my values and settle for less then what I need and want.

quote:

Many folks have high expectations and that is fine unless you constantly find yourself unhappy. Then I think you have to ask yourself how realistic those expectations are. Too many people think there are only two choices -- their high expectations or no expectations. Think of your expectations, see them as a line of different concepts or points, now more those points up and down the line from the two extremes until you are looking for something that fulfills what you want but offers you a realistic chance to successful find a partnership.


And what's so high about having expectations of a one on one loving D/s relationship? I won't lower it by sharing my heart with more then one romantically. And to me anything less is lower then the way it should be. But that's me and I think the majority of both men and women feel. Maybe not in D/s relationships;The voter is still out on that. But not in a one on one love relationship.



See, I think you are doing what a lot of people do. You are assuming that this one expectation you mention may be the expectation that needs rethinking. You are taking an extreme view of looking at what you want realistically.

I doubt that mongamy is the only expectation you have.

It may seem like this is the biggest problem you are encountering but how can you be sure unless you stop and reevaluate as objectively as possible what your expectations are. Then you have to take other steps. Figuring out what is essential for you and then working on communicating that at the very beginning of getting to know someone.

Then you try these new expectations and the new approach and see how successful it is for you. Only you can decide how long to try and what qualifies as successful. If you aren't successful you will need to go back and do another evaluation.

And just so you know, slavebrandyj, I am not driven by lust. I can count the number of people I've had sex with on one hand; I've had the same two sexual partners for over a decade. Last time I talked to my gyn he mentioned that that was a much safer approach than most serial monogamous folks who tend to have more than one sexual partner a year. Please don't assume that those who claim monogamy are truly practicing that and please don't assume that poly = crazed lust.



devoT -> RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (1/2/2007 4:19:36 PM)

Ahhh, the pain of unrequited love... the ancient samurai used to claim this was the sweetest, most refined love of all... we've all been through it, and some of us learn from it, and some of us don't, and remain destined to repeat history again and again.

In my experience, which may not be vast, female dominants are not all that different from vanilla women. In a partner, they seek above all else, someone they can respect. The analogy of a Knight and his Lady is a good one, or even King Kong and Ann Darrow. I have seen too many men, in both D/s and vanilla relationships, lose their self-respect and become a pathetic grovelling worm. While many women might enjoy reducing a man to this level, it is usually just a temporary thing if the relationship is to survive beyond short term. A man still needs to be a MAN, by which I mean emotionally strong in character, and not a puppy dog laptoy, if his Lady is to retain any respect for him. And in my view, respect is absolutely fundamental to love. If there's no respect, or respect fades, there can be no love. Just as in any other relationship, if one wants to be loved, one must do the things that earn respect, rather than the things that earn contempt. Love will naturally follow. Where's the fun in dominating a grovelling worm? Far more fun, and a much greater accomplishment/challenge, to tame a wild beast!

As men, we are wild beasts, seeking that one special Lady to tame us. We run wild and free and play rough, until she enters our lives and decides that we are the one for her. Then she sets about taming us. But it's our wildness, and roughness, and MANLINESS that attracts her in the first place. If she wanted another girl friend, it's much less effort for her to get a real one, than to try and turn some sissy worm into one. We submit to her training because we love her. And we love her because she's the one who made us submit. It's a two-way challenge, a game, a tug-of-war, not a roll-over-and-tickle-my-tummy. Where's the challenge in that? She may dominate, but you have to be worth dominating in the first place.


*I realise that the terms MAN and MANLINESS may be confusing to some. Just to clarify, you don't have to be 6'6", have muscles on muscles, drink 15 pints of beer, love football, sweat profusely, and have a hairy chest, to be a man. Being a MAN is about something else: it's attitude, personality, character, an inner strength.



PsyVamp -> RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (1/2/2007 4:58:17 PM)

slavebrandyj
I do not love my sub the way he loves me (to steal part of a line from TammyJo).  I am physically incapable of it.  Does that mean that I don't love him?  No, in my own way I do. If he needs someone who would be devastated if he left, then I cannot accommodate him. 



LotusSong -> RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (1/2/2007 6:04:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: devoT

Ahhh, the pain of unrequited love... the ancient samurai used to claim this was the sweetest, most refined love of all... we've all been through it, and some of us learn from it, and some of us don't, and remain destined to repeat history again and again.

In my experience, which may not be vast, female dominants are not all that different from vanilla women. In a partner, they seek above all else, someone they can respect. The analogy of a Knight and his Lady is a good one, or even King Kong and Ann Darrow. I have seen too many men, in both D/s and vanilla relationships, lose their self-respect and become a pathetic grovelling worm. While many women might enjoy reducing a man to this level, it is usually just a temporary thing if the relationship is to survive beyond short term. A man still needs to be a MAN, by which I mean emotionally strong in character, and not a puppy dog laptoy, if his Lady is to retain any respect for him. And in my view, respect is absolutely fundamental to love. If there's no respect, or respect fades, there can be no love. Just as in any other relationship, if one wants to be loved, one must do the things that earn respect, rather than the things that earn contempt. Love will naturally follow. Where's the fun in dominating a grovelling worm? Far more fun, and a much greater accomplishment/challenge, to tame a wild beast!

As men, we are wild beasts, seeking that one special Lady to tame us. We run wild and free and play rough, until she enters our lives and decides that we are the one for her. Then she sets about taming us. But it's our wildness, and roughness, and MANLINESS that attracts her in the first place. If she wanted another girl friend, it's much less effort for her to get a real one, than to try and turn some sissy worm into one. We submit to her training because we love her. And we love her because she's the one who made us submit. It's a two-way challenge, a game, a tug-of-war, not a roll-over-and-tickle-my-tummy. Where's the challenge in that? She may dominate, but you have to be worth dominating in the first place.


*I realise that the terms MAN and MANLINESS may be confusing to some. Just to clarify, you don't have to be 6'6", have muscles on muscles, drink 15 pints of beer, love football, sweat profusely, and have a hairy chest, to be a man. Being a MAN is about something else: it's attitude, personality, character, an inner strength.
Well put, devoT :)



jthorne -> RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (1/2/2007 7:23:38 PM)

brandy,

First off, it seems to me your former Mistress is a very wise woman. You don't understand why she's done what she has, but if you look inward and analyze things, really think about them from more than just your own point of view, you will probably come to see why she has done this.

Secondly, I can't explain poly to you, any more than you can explain mono to me, and have us both "grok" it as it were. You have to be wired for it. You, clearly, are wired for monogamy. I am so and totally not. I've found focusing on one person is too much for them, that I give, emote, AM too much for one person. I spread it around, and I find I'm happier, and so is everyone else. But that's ME, not anyone else, and I can't look down on anyone who chooses different.

Love and D/s can exist. Believe that. Just because it often doesn't, doesn't mean it never happens. Some people want to keep their BDSM separate from their love life. That's okay. Myself, I'm shying away from the love issue because I, like you, was hurt by a domme whom I loved with every fibre of my being. I'm channeling it into exploring the other side of my switchiness and engaging in BDSM that doesn't require emotional/romantic investment.

Just...keep believing, okay? And know that there's someone out there for you. Your ex isn't the only fish in this whole big ocean.



kate -> RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (1/2/2007 7:53:49 PM)

i find it hard to believe that anyone could be happy living there life without at least wanting to find someone to grow old with, i am very young compared to most here...but i know that i would not want to live a life without romantic love, being in love is the most perfect feeling one can experience...i think that people should always try to find a partner who loves them to the same degree that they love the other...i know it's hard, but it is best to move on to new things...they are out there



Lashra -> RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (1/3/2007 4:49:07 AM)

I personally love my male sub with all my heart. I don't understand why people would say that D/s and deep love cannot go together. Although with that said, I do know that it is more difficult to be as strict with someone you love as opposed to a more casual partner. I know that I tend to give my sub more rope then I probably should sometimes but, our relationship works and we are both happy.

I hope you do find what it is you seek.

~Lashra



dekley -> RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (1/3/2007 3:53:36 PM)

quote:

It's harsh, but true.. the older we get the less desireable we become. 


Hmmm... I take it you're not familiar with that old Hank Thompson song, "The Older the Violin, the Sweeter the Music." [8|]

dekley




LusciousGoddess -> RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (1/3/2007 8:04:52 PM)

I'm not an expert in this area, I can only speak from personal experience.  To answer your question simply, yes - I believe it can, and have been blessed enough to find that with someone. 

I've been in relationships, both vanilla and D/s that I have ended because I did not share the same feelings as the person I was with.  There comes a point that if the relationship is not growing, even when there is strong emotional feelings involved, that something needs to be done.  For the mental well being of -both- involved. 

Of course, everyone is entitled to thier own opinion, this is just mine!  I wish you well, dear.



Noah -> RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (1/3/2007 8:19:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slavebrandyj

I have been told that love and D/s cannot co-exist, or at best is rare.


At the risk of sounding like a fucking Hallmark card, should anyone care if a thing is rare if they only want a small slice of it and are willing to make the appropriate sacrifices?

I doubt it is as rare as the buzz in venues like this might lead you to believe. I suspect that a lot of people are busy in fulfilling relationships of just the sort you describe, who don't feel the urge to come here and tell and retell their story. Whereas a lot of people who have so far missed the boat seem to hang around here while they wait--with more or less faith and hope--for their ship to come in.

Have faith and be true. It will increase your odds of meeting someone else with the same habits.




LotusSong -> RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (1/3/2007 8:23:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dekley

quote:

It's harsh, but true.. the older we get the less desireable we become. 


Hmmm... I take it you're not familiar with that old Hank Thompson song, "The Older the Violin, the Sweeter the Music." [8|]

dekley

Probably :)  My husband is 60 and my Slave is 62 :) 





cacodylic -> RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (1/3/2007 11:27:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavebrandyj
 I have been told that love and D/s cannot co-exist, or at best is rare.


I sure would hope that's not the case, otherwise I'd quit looking now...

This has been a really interesting thread... not the least for the age/desirability comments [is 60 'even better' than 50? lol]



devoT -> RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (1/4/2007 5:12:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavebrandyj
I have been told that love and D/s cannot co-exist, or at best is rare.


To expand on my earlier post, I really believe that D/s and love can easily co-exist. The nature of love doesn't change, being into D/s doesn't alter anything. Just like in vanilla relationships, for there to be love there needs to be respect. For there to be respect, both parties have to earn it.

Nobody likes a clingy, needy person. I think too many people (in both vanilla and D/s) take the idea of total submission too far. After all, if a submissive does absolutely everything they are told to without fail or error, then it kind of dispenses with the need for punishment. I described it earlier as a tug-of-war: what I meant by that is that there needs to be a bit of tension between both people, not in a bad way, but just enough give and take to keep the game going. If one side simply drops their end of the rope and throws themselves at the other's feet, the game is won, and finished. But the point of this particular game (love) is not to win, but to keep it going forever.

Total submission then, IMHO, should be a mythical, non-attainable goal. Because once it's reached, the game is over. Leaving the Dom/me to get bored and look for a new challenge. Just as the Dom/me has a responsibility not to take their side too far, so does the sub. Being a sub does not mean surrendering responsibility.



sissifytoserve -> RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (1/4/2007 9:55:23 PM)

Never seen it..in my case.

No matter how much love you give in some cases..its never returned.

Don't be a sucker.



RobertCloud -> RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (1/4/2007 10:18:47 PM)

brandy,
I wish to add to what the others have said in that love and D/s can and do exist side by side. Often one is released in order to learn something. Or that the Owner has something they need to learn about themselves for they do not feel fully worthy of the devotion of one that loves them as dearly as you loved yours.

Other times there are other reasons that are hidden and will never be known. I will not go into all the other possible bad reasons because from reading your comments it does not seem that any of the bad reasons applied in this case. It seems that the reasons were that she just could not see it going further for one reason or another and did not want to cause you more pain by keeping you on and causing you more grief as you fell even deeper for her.

This is a difficult decision for any Owner, it happens in marriages too. Sometimes one will come to a point that their love will not grow as the other ones does and they know it will just cause pain for one of them. It is a sorrowful thing that happens, but in a marriage it is more difficult to end than in this kind of relationship. Sadly, they say a collar is supposed to be more powerful than a wedding ring and yet many in the lifestyle treat it with much less respect than they do a lollipop.

I wish you well brandy, and I hope the issues can be resolved. You never disclosed who your Mistress was, she should not be angered. I do wish you the very best.



slavekal -> RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (1/5/2007 5:56:32 PM)

I am in a loving female dominant relationship right now.  I have been in others in the past, so I know it can be done, and it is not just dumb luck.  It is not always easy, and it takes work.  But it is definitely possible.  And when you have both, there ain't nothing like it in the world.



VeryMercurial -> RE: D/s and deep love...can it exist? (1/5/2007 8:09:07 PM)

Of course Ds and deep love can exist.  This is just another type of relationship.
Why would anyone think they could not exist?



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