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RE: whom would you call a true sadist? - 1/4/2007 8:32:32 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I think Daddysprop has said it, it's the infliction of pain and suffering, and that can take various forms, not just the physical.

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RE: whom would you call a true sadist? - 1/4/2007 8:33:10 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: serillabound

IMO I think there needs to be a distinction between between a Sociopath and a Sadist....the former doesn't care to get the recepient's approval or consent..but the Sadist gets off on the willingness of the recepient to accept and invite the pain...just me



mmmmmm well I get off on the pain that I cause... and not on the willingness of the recepient to accept or invite the pain.  In fact... I like it more when they don't like it.... but I will take either.

So does that make me a Sociopath?

I think not...... Your definition is poorly thought out.


Sociopaths... can be Sadists... but not all Sadists are Sociopaths.  The difference is in their Morality.

Their is a Moral Sadist  and their are Immoral Sadist.  The Moral Sadist will not harm the person... they actually care for their well-being.  While the Immoral Sadist... just doesn't give a shit about harming them.  They could harm them as easy as stepping on a bug.


I really like this. A moral sadist. That be me!

Okay, so there could be a few dips into the immoral pool in  my past......


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RE: whom would you call a true sadist? - 1/4/2007 8:43:06 AM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez


quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorelei115

A "true" Sadist, in my definition, is someone who gets off on causing others pain. Doesn't matter if the recipient likes it or not.


Yeah, that could be called a clincial sadist, too. They usually end up in jail or in hospitals; if they aren't caught, they leave a trail of seriously damaged victims behind.



I do not disagree about it being a clinical definition but I am confused a little. Do you think someone in this life who fits that description is dangerous? If so, I would have to disagree then as there is still a pretty big line between causing people pain that have consented to it and causing people to be damaged and/or doing other things unsafely.


Freely given consent it the key for me.

For mental health questions it is more complex -- not just criminal issues but also self-perception issues arise.

I'd say that if you value another person's consent you probably value what they get out of it -- it may not be pleasure at the actual SM (Fox gets no pleasure from them) but from the service one is providing or the sense of fulfilling one's duty (this is what Fox gets from it).

A clincial sadist or a true sadist (if you want to use that wording) does not care and probably would be uninterested in consent. Doing it unconsensual is probably a huge part of the thrill.

But I'm not a psychologist or other mental health care professional. I'm basing my opinion on talking to some of these folks, taking classes in the field, attending lectures by professionals speaking on these issues, and reading things like the DSM (in at least 3 editions).

Many activists I've met in this field want to help create more understanding about BDSM in the rest of the world, there is a big drive to really distinguish between what BDSM is and what is called sadism or masochism. Sometimes they do this through word additions like "clinical" or "sexual"; sometimes they simply reject the terms of masochism and sadism.

I think these terms though have a sexual charge for many of us and some history of useage in the BDSM and leather worlds so I it would be difficult to stop using them.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 1/4/2007 8:45:27 AM >

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RE: whom would you call a true sadist? - 1/4/2007 9:07:03 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
i also feel that sadism is not limited to physical pain...i have come across many sadists for whom my mental and emotional suffering was just as sweet, or sweeter even, as the physical torture.


I agree... Pain is but a perception.  This perception can be based on a physical, mental or emotional standpoint.

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RE: whom would you call a true sadist? - 1/4/2007 9:41:41 AM   
SlaveAkasha


Posts: 726
Joined: 9/30/2006
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		A sadist to me, is my Master.  He enjoys giving me pain, even the kind I don't find pleasurable.  If it makes me cry, or makes me hurt, all the better.  I know he would never really hurt me, but how much I can take varies depending on what item he is using. 
 
He is always very sane and safe in how he does things, and I know he won't ever really cause damage to me.  I know he loves me very much, but that doesn't stop him from causing me to cry for his pleasure.  That, to me.. is a sadist.
 
Kasha

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RE: whom would you call a true sadist? - 1/4/2007 10:28:07 AM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		Um since when did love play into sadism??

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RE: whom would you call a true sadist? - 1/8/2007 9:18:51 PM   
kingrichard089


Posts: 20
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline 		Since the word "sadism" refers to the Marquis de Sade and the word "massochism" refers to Massoch (don't remember the full name because I'm a sadist, not a massochist), a sexual element is implied. The theory behind sadism is that "sex without fear is like food without taste."  So I would say that a sadist is one who gets sexual pleasure from others' pain.  As humans we are all unique and complex and one sadist may appreciate pain that another does not.

A sociopathology is a completely separate issue.  A sociopath has great difficulty having normal relationships with other people and often views people around him/her as objects to be manipulated, like living furnature and appliances.  This can manifest in a sort of cunning violence that may or may not have a sexual element to it.  One might be both a sadist and a sociopath and might express his/her sadism in a socially inappropriate manner.

Sadists who are not sociapaths are able to form a normal loving, or at least a respectful relationship with their subs.  The concept of a "sub" itself is an expression of social normalization of sadism.  If it were non-consentual, the sub would be a "victim."


disclaimer <not a psychologist - just studied a lot of it and worked in the field for a very long time>

KR

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RE: whom would you call a true sadist? - 1/8/2007 9:49:55 PM   
Mastermind70


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Joined: 11/14/2006
Status: offline 		So would I be classified as a sociopath and not a sadist because I like to inflict consensual but not necessarily desired or enjoyable pain on someone else? I like boxing and MMA for the same reason, a way to consensually inflict pain on another person, does that make all fighters sociopaths as well?
Jeffery


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RE: whom would you call a true sadist? - 1/8/2007 9:56:49 PM   
HatesParisHilton


Posts: 3513
Joined: 12/27/2006
Status: offline 		of course, a full blown female sociopath (aka a raging borderline) is often a PHYSICAL masochist and sub, but a horrendous EMOTIONAL and societal sadist to the person they claim they "love" or "serve".

food for thought.

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RE: whom would you call a true sadist? - 1/8/2007 10:08:59 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear letmecollaryou, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
We get entangled with the word 'true' when it is applied to another label such as a Sadist.
 
I do not have to be romanticly in love when I TOP a well known Switch who is self proclaimed Sado-masochist.  Thus, true I do not 'love' the man and I can beat him (artfully I will say) to where he is happy as can be, drunk on endorphins and adrenaline.  I act in a Sadist frame but only in a modern BDSM and or S&M context.
 
I am also able to be most fond or love someone and beat them as well.  It can be in a very sensual manner and yet; I can cause pain and suffering in a sensual scene as well as a painful application of sensations.
 
And, yet in my mind's eyes -- I can be extremely savage and would consider myself an individual that might suit the Inquisition period of torturers -- IF, they allowed women to be the torturers and executioners.  It is my ethics and my better side of my nature that keeps me from being cruel and savage.  But, there are moments when I do have temptations. 
 
Not to be entirely too graphic, as it may shock the readers--picture a woman suffering from PMS, holding an axe in one hand and a barb wire flail in the other with a most sweet grin on their face.  That would be the picture of me if I became a bit annoyed.
 
Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration, with a wee bit of wit,
Lady Hugs
(Frustrated Inquisition Torturer want-to-be)

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RE: whom would you call a true sadist? - 1/8/2007 10:21:44 PM   
enchantra64


Posts: 1
Joined: 11/30/2006
Status: offline 		Not to be to analytical here but psychologists would classify a true sadist as one who is unable to perform sexually without cause physical damage to another, consentually or not.  These folks are often sociopathic, not caring about the line between pain and pleasure concerning their partner.

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RE: whom would you call a true sadist? - 1/8/2007 10:37:11 PM   
cacodylic


Posts: 157
Joined: 3/6/2005
From: CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: enchantra64

Not to be to analytical here but psychologists would classify a true sadist as one who is unable to perform sexually without cause physical damage to another, consentually or not.  These folks are often sociopathic, not caring about the line between pain and pleasure concerning their partner.


In other words, Dick Cheney....

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RE: whom would you call a true sadist? - 1/8/2007 10:49:55 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		A sociopath acts without conscience, without remorse, without guilt.  A sadist finds pleasure and gratification in causing pain in another being.

These are two different personality sets.  A sadist may be a sociopath or not.  Likewise, a sociopath may or may  not necessarily be a sadist (a sociopath may not even acknowledge his or her actions cause pain).

quote:

ORIGINAL: serillabound

IMO I think there needs to be a distinction between between a Sociopath and a Sadist....the former doesn't care to get the recepient's approval or consent..but the Sadist gets off on the willingness of the recepient to accept and invite the pain...just me

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RE: whom would you call a true sadist? - 1/9/2007 7:13:01 PM   
Petronius


Posts: 289
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		George Bush
Tony Blair
Saddam Hussein
Osama bin Laden
the various leaders of the fundamentalist Islamic militias in Iraq
the various leaders of the fundamentalist Hindu cults in India
the various leaders of the fundamentalists

That's real sadism.

All the rest is either psychosis or playacting.

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RE: whom would you call a true sadist? - 1/9/2007 7:19:52 PM   
MasterGremlin


Posts: 230
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		The One I love who loves to beat me

Sincerely,
minxy

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