RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron?

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BeachMystress -> RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? (3/30/2005 11:41:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig quote: ORIGINAL: fullokinks I am the client. Being a switch, I understand the power of money; I have it and others want it. There is a genuine feeling of power to be able to get someone to do something that they would never do otherwise, simply by waving a few bills under the nose. I'm not a Pro Domme, and still hate the way this sounds... Maybe it's me but cheap woman for sale is how I'm feeling this statement... Not a woman who can get you to pay her to do things the she enjoys doing anyway. On some level we're all whores to our jobs right? Unless you sit at home do nothing and people send you money. M Because to me, BDSM is my sexuality rather than something I just participate in for fun, being a ProDomme would be selling my sexuality. Even without intercourse, it would be prostitution FOR ME. It doesn't matter that I enjoy it and do it on my own. The difference for me comes down to being paid for something I consider sex. It took me a long time to realize that for some, it was just something they did to make money, or that it didn't equal sex to them. For them, it doesn't equal prostitution, merely a job. And while I find the statement made a bit crass when applied to ProDomme quote: There is a genuine feeling of power to be able to get someone to do something that they would never do otherwise, simply by waving a few bills under the nose. it is the truth. BUT, it is as true in any other situation also. If you feel that way about paying a ProDomme, you should feel the same way when handing over your money at McD's or the grocery store. It is a transaction. Transactions happen all the time. It is called WORK. None of those people serve you with a smile of their own volition. They are paid. If you feel the need to turn a business transaction into a feeling of power, that is your choice.

GddssBella -> RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? (3/31/2005 7:07:30 AM)
G'morning all: A juicy topic to be sure. Firstly, I will apologise in advance to any of my sisters in bdsm if I offend them. Remember please, this post is only my opinion & should be taken with a grain of salt. I admire many of the ladies that regularly post in this forum & I do not wish for them to get twisted over it. That being said... From my viewpoint, yes, Pro-Domination is an oxymoron. Accepting monetary compensation for your skills when the situation should be based on trust, connectivity, emotional ties, & yes a relationship is self defeating. It negates the principles of power exchange. Substituting cash for that element is simply a justification for someone's motives. Mind you now, I have a great respect for whomever decides this is their cup of tea. They're providing a service to the bdsm community. It is however, still a transaction. It is performing a service for a fee. Irregardless of a lady's requirements to accept a client, she's still accepting payment. I don't see how this involves t.p.e.. The McDomme comment was entertaining to say the least. The lady may not like mayo on her buns.... {tongue firmly in cheek} Stay safe all, play nice, & share your toys w/ others.... [:D] Bella

MizSuz -> RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? (3/31/2005 9:32:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: doubly so because the site is free. Miz Suz, It's a good reason to make this a pay site. That's how they purged the other site of this problem. Mercnbeth: I agree, but I don't think that's in line with what they wanted to offer the community. Of course, I don't have my finger to the pulse of that, it's just my take on it. I often wonder how many of the folks who moan about the service have made a donation. I suspect few. BTW, feel free to call me Suz if it suits you.

AAkasha -> RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? (3/31/2005 9:58:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MizSuz quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: doubly so because the site is free. Miz Suz, It's a good reason to make this a pay site. That's how they purged the other site of this problem. Mercnbeth: I agree, but I don't think that's in line with what they wanted to offer the community. Of course, I don't have my finger to the pulse of that, it's just my take on it. I often wonder how many of the folks who moan about the service have made a donation. I suspect few. BTW, feel free to call me Suz if it suits you. There are probably some cases where this might not necessarily be true. What if a femdom is very established and has the luxury of completely screening her clients, only choosing those she knows won't top from the bottom, and vetoing any that think otherwise? I do phone domination from time to time, and I turn down about half the calls after a few minutes if I can't get into it. If it's not doing anything for me, or he has a huge agenda, I suggest he call someone else. Since I don't do this for a living -- since I don't do it to pay for rent, or food -- there is no pressure to perform for someone else just to make a buck. I would imagine some successful pro femdoms are in this boat as well. Then, you also have to consider the straight fetishists, which also make a large percentage of the clientelle. If a pro femdom enjoys the act of flogging, caning, or paddling, she will get a similar -- if not equal or better -- rush from doing it with a stranger (provided he is not rude or disgusting) as a personal partner. So what if she is being paid. Personally, I can't stomach the idea of dominating someone in the flesh that I don't have some sort of a connection with -- either some instant lust/chemistry or a build up of common attraction. Because domination is something so intense for me, the idea of being forced to dominate a man for cash who I found unattractive would be worse than being paid to do manual or boring labor. By a long shot! As for who is in charge because who "paid" -- it's almost irrelevant if the femdom has the natural skill to take a man's fetishes and use them to her advantage. Remember, a lot of us are wired to get an instinctive "high" by manipulating a man. If a femdom knows in her heart she can tell him to take a hike if he's ruining her high, she's much more likely to maintain that control because she honestly has it. You can argue that if a paid domination scene was a real act of submission and the femdom got what she wanted, she'd have the guy put the money on the table and walk out the door. Sure, of course. But that's true for any profession. Akasha

odysseus1250 -> RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? (3/31/2005 11:06:26 AM)
quote: I do phone domination from time to time, and I turn down about half the calls after a few minutes if I can't get into it. If it's not doing anything for me, or he has a huge agenda, I suggest he call someone else. Since I don't do this for a living -- since I don't do it to pay for rent, or food -- there is no pressure to perform for someone else just to make a buck. I would imagine some successful pro femdoms are in this boat as well. I'm positive you are right that genuine domination occurs during those phone calls and during sessions by successful Pro Dommes who can take or leave the money and whose dominant instincts come to the fore in most situations anyway. But even for someone with no financial need, doesn't the fact that the conversation/encounter wouldn't be taking place without a financial quid pro quo make it less intimate as an experience and the domination less thrilling? Similarly, even a skilled and empathetic psychologist is not quite the same as a best friend. quote: Then, you also have to consider the straight fetishists, which also make a large percentage of the clientelle. If a pro femdom enjoys the act of flogging, caning, or paddling, she will get a similar -- if not equal or better -- rush from doing it with a stranger (provided he is not rude or disgusting) as a personal partner. So what if she is being paid. It would seem to me that this is more true if it's the Domme who is the straight fetishist, rather than the client. quote: Personally, I can't stomach the idea of dominating someone in the flesh that I don't have some sort of a connection with -- either some instant lust/chemistry or a build up of common attraction. Because domination is something so intense for me, the idea of being forced to dominate a man for cash who I found unattractive would be worse than being paid to do manual or boring labor. By a long shot! As for who is in charge because who "paid" -- it's almost irrelevant if the femdom has the natural skill to take a man's fetishes and use them to her advantage. Remember, a lot of us are wired to get an instinctive "high" by manipulating a man. If a femdom knows in her heart she can tell him to take a hike if he's ruining her high, she's much more likely to maintain that control because she honestly has it. You can argue that if a paid domination scene was a real act of submission and the femdom got what she wanted, she'd have the guy put the money on the table and walk out the door. Sure, of course. But that's true for any profession. One good reversal might be for the ground rules to be that she could genuinely choose to walk out the door, but that if she decided to stay she would be the client and he would be the paid boy. She would decide what to do without any knowledge of his preferences and if he performed decently she could tip him, if she chose, out of the money that was now hers.

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? (3/31/2005 12:34:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BeachMystress Because to me, BDSM is my sexuality rather than something I just participate in for fun, being a ProDomme would be selling my sexuality. We're in agreement there... It is also very much about sex for me, but I've read time and again where it isn't about sex for a lot of people in this lifestyle. quote: And while I find the statement made a bit crass when applied to ProDomme quote: There is a genuine feeling of power to be able to get someone to do something that they would never do otherwise, simply by waving a few bills under the nose. it is the truth. BUT, it is as true in any other situation also.If you feel that way about paying a ProDomme, you should feel the same way when handing over your money at McD's or the grocery store. It is a transaction. Transactions happen all the time. It is called WORK. Exactly My point. If a man wants something from a woman without the inconvenience of courtship rituals and physical/emotional availability for her happiness and comfort, in my view, he should absolutely pay for it (weather it's a cup of grapes, a smile, worship of her shoes, etc). quote: If you feel the need to turn a business transaction into a feeling of power, that is your choice. Exactly, to me he sounded too smug in saying "I can get her to do anything I want by waving a few bills under her nose," without acknowledging that perhaps he's the being taken when she can get him to pay her his money (that he was a whore at work for) to do something like clean her house or her shoes or spank his bare ass.... M

AAkasha -> RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? (3/31/2005 2:21:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: odysseus1250 quote: I do phone domination from time to time, and I turn down about half the calls after a few minutes if I can't get into it. If it's not doing anything for me, or he has a huge agenda, I suggest he call someone else. Since I don't do this for a living -- since I don't do it to pay for rent, or food -- there is no pressure to perform for someone else just to make a buck. I would imagine some successful pro femdoms are in this boat as well. I'm positive you are right that genuine domination occurs during those phone calls and during sessions by successful Pro Dommes who can take or leave the money and whose dominant instincts come to the fore in most situations anyway. But even for someone with no financial need, doesn't the fact that the conversation/encounter wouldn't be taking place without a financial quid pro quo make it less intimate as an experience and the domination less thrilling? Similarly, even a skilled and empathetic psychologist is not quite the same as a best friend. I got into phone sex many, many years ago. I used to enjoy picking up men in chatrooms and calling them up to dominate them on the phone. It is a great way to masturbate and explore fantasies, and I really get into things like voices, accents, breathing, etc. My phone bills were pretty high in the mid90s (that's just before all the calling cards and long distance discounts) but there was no way I would give out my number to people. So in answer to your question, yes, I would have been doing phone domination anyway. I decided I enjoyed it enough, was sincere about it, and guys would call me who knew about me and my kinks from reading my site -- not just some random person. The biggest obstacle was (and still is, when I decide to do it now and then) that I can't "post hours of availability" -- it just doesn't work. I can't tell you now on Thursday afternoon if I am going to be in a lustful mood for phone sex on Sunday night. My availability tended to be totally sporadic as a result, and it was the luck of the draw if someone saw that I posted I was going to be doing calls for an evening. And, whether I did one call or five -- all depended on my hunger and mood. I can sort of predict when I might be in the mood in advance if I know my real life partner is not going to be available (travel or illness or athletic injury) or if I am coming off a huge work project/lack of sleep -- which tends to be the times I get an insane appetite for domination. Sometimes I post availability a few days in advance in those cases, but a great deal of the time I find myself doing something else. Again, doesn't matter -- I don't do it for a career. Akasha

LadyTantalize -> RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? (4/1/2005 2:30:56 PM)
quote: Because to me, BDSM is my sexuality rather than something I just participate in for fun, being a ProDomme would be selling my sexuality. Even without intercourse, it would be prostitution FOR ME. BeachMystress So, in affect, you are saying that one who works in a field that focuses on promoting, using or selling their sexuality is essentially practicing prostitution? Well, then I guess erotic dancers and strippers fall into this categorization (gasp, I was a stripper too long ago), but as do those sexy gals at Hooters or the Victoria's Secret models who "prostitute" their breasts or bodies, who promote their sexuality for financial gain .... well, then for that matter almost all of the fashion industry, Hollywood and even the music industry falls into this generalization!!! Sorry, too broad based a generalized stereotyping for Me! There is a BIG difference between selling your sexuality and selling sex!!! Anyway, I think prostitution should be legal and that the "pandering" or "pimping" of another in a sexual manner for profit is what should remain illegal. It's My body and My sexuality to be empowered and used as I deem. Nevertheless, I do not "sell sex" therefore I do not consider Myself a prostitute, nor do I consider My Professional Female Domination to be "just a job"! It's a joy and a priceless gift that I am lucky enough to have turned into a profitable experience which co-exists with the non-professional leather lifestyle that I also enjoy. "From my viewpoint, yes, Pro-Domination is an oxymoron. Accepting monetary compensation for your skills when the situation should be based on trust, connectivity, emotional ties, & yes a relationship is self defeating. It negates the principles of power exchange. Substituting cash for that element is simply a justification for someone's motives." GddssBellla OK, I can buy that Professional Domination does somewhat negate the Power Exchange, but I've coerced many a client into going further, experimenting with a limit, trying something they disliked and generally taking over the will of another...there is a power exchange in Professional Domination! And, who is to say that for some, the Professionl "situation" is not based on trust, connectivity, emotional ties, & yes a relationship ..... I know for Me each experience involves ALL that you mention. Just My thoughts!! Truly, Lady T. Lady Tatiana Tantalize A Proud Lifestyle Mistress & Professional Dominatrix Atlanta's Sadistic Southern Belle http://www.ladytantalize.net

BeachMystress -> RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? (4/1/2005 10:37:48 PM)
I'm sorry you take exception to my ethics and the way I feel things would be for ME. YES, it would be prostitution for ME to sell any aspect of my sexuality. You're able to sell it and deal with it, it is fine. IT WOULD NOT BE FOR ME.

sting516 -> RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? (4/2/2005 5:28:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BeachMystress None of those people serve you with a smile of their own volition. They are paid. If you feel the need to turn a business transaction into a feeling of power, that is your choice. This is exactly why i choose not to frequent pros anymore...when i first started out in bdsm and wanted to try different things, i did use the services of a pro-domme...they served a purpose. In the back of my mind however was always the wonder if they were enjoying it (something that i find important to me), or if they'd just as soon be doing anything else. sting

MsLadyMistress -> RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? (4/2/2005 5:43:32 AM)
"Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron?" Abosutely not Is it necessary to need to justify the why, what and how's of being a Professional Dominatrix? Absolutely not MsLadyMistress

MsLadyMistress -> RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? (11/14/2008 5:30:29 AM)
Interesting forum I must say

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? (11/14/2008 5:40:16 AM)
Ok...just opinion here...but I think the term "pro top" is more accurate than "pro domme"...the fact is, in a financial transaction, it's the person supplying the money who is in charge. If a client's personal kink is to be beaten with a pink leather whip while the whipper sings selections from Oklahoma, then in a pro situation, the domme is going to end up with a pink whip and "Little Surry With the Fringe On Top" caught in her head. Otherwise, the client is going to find another place to spend his cash. In the end, I think, and this is just an opinion, that it is an application of the golden rule...whoever has the gold makes the rules

LadyConstanze -> RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? (11/14/2008 5:49:44 AM)
Let me swap that around a bit... You have a favorite band or singer, you buy tickets to a concert, you pay.... Does that mean you are in charge or are you paying for the privilege of experiencing the music live? You are seeing your doctor/therapist/health professional because of a specific problem, they render a service and you pay for it, does that mean you are completely in charge? Of course you can go and book a "fast food session" where somebody simply works through the list of things you hand them, or you can do your homework and find somebody who enjoys giving it a real twist and makes you do what they want you to do.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? (11/14/2008 6:00:20 AM)
The example of a musician/band is a very good one in this case, as we are talking about entertainment providers. In both cases, the person is paying to enjoy the experience of the provider's skills in the appropriate area. And, in both cases, the experience given is not under the direct control of the patron. It's the repeat business that he controls. And yes, many musicians go out of their way to do things in the way their fans want them to...which is why so many stay in the same groove for so long. Those that don't sacrifice the big arena shows and stick to the little intimate clubs.

stella41b -> RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? (11/14/2008 6:04:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales Ok...just opinion here...but I think the term "pro top" is more accurate than "pro domme"...the fact is, in a financial transaction, it's the person supplying the money who is in charge. If a client's personal kink is to be beaten with a pink leather whip while the whipper sings selections from Oklahoma, then in a pro situation, the domme is going to end up with a pink whip and "Little Surry With the Fringe On Top" caught in her head. Otherwise, the client is going to find another place to spend his cash. In the end, I think, and this is just an opinion, that it is an application of the golden rule...whoever has the gold makes the rules This is no different than the paradox of many male submissives hitting on dommes (and others) wanting a relationship based on their wants, needs and kinks. Submissive? Submissive to who? But actually there isn't such a paradox in your example because the Pro-Domme exists, she has her own way of doing things and the punter in choosing her specifically submits to her way of doing things. She exercises the choice over whether to accept someone and book a session with them or not. If you dispute this, then try approaching any Pro-Domme as a crossdressing human toilet and see how many accept you.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? (11/14/2008 6:21:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales The example of a musician/band is a very good one in this case, as we are talking about entertainment providers. In both cases, the person is paying to enjoy the experience of the provider's skills in the appropriate area. And, in both cases, the experience given is not under the direct control of the patron. It's the repeat business that he controls. And yes, many musicians go out of their way to do things in the way their fans want them to...which is why so many stay in the same groove for so long. Those that don't sacrifice the big arena shows and stick to the little intimate clubs. Having worked in the music business for a long time, I have to disagree with you to an extend. Most artists actually are quite focused on keeping the passion alive for themselves and enjoy what they are doing, or else they would retire, they seriously do not consider very much if Joe Average in the audience wanted them to play different songs, the most successful musicians are the ones who are still passionate and do what it takes to fulfill their own passion, the "American Idol" types and one-hit-wonders tend to have a rather short commercial life-span and end up doing the club circuit. The music biz has done quite a nose dive in the last few years (glad that I got out when the going was still good but I was never on the performing side) and the crux of the matter is unfortunately that talent wasn't developed and only the already established artists had the freedom of doing what they want, but most of the "legends" were doing small clubs to hone their skills before they started to fill arenas. Now you need a snazzy video and a hit single and you fill an arena, at least until a new hit single comes along and the whole world forgets about you...

MsLadyMistress -> RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? (11/14/2008 6:27:03 AM)
Well said stella

Coupleofwhats -> RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? (11/14/2008 7:23:30 AM)
Sigh. OK, the whole "waving money under their nose to make them do what I want" has little to do with BDSM and everything to do with wanting to take advantage of sex workers. If someone is the sort of sex worker who HAS to take whoever asks-- because they don't have another form of income and/or an education that will allow them to go elsewhere, should the need/desire arise -- then yes, a client can probably call the shots. But there are certainly those Pro Dommes who don't need those bills you're so proudly waving. Women with established clientele. Women with an additional income stream. When you don't need the money, that's when you can do what you like. Personally, I am at a place now where more inquirers are turned away than accepted. If you e-mail me a list of demands, I will either ignore you or direct you elsewhere.

mummyman321 -> RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? (11/14/2008 10:43:01 AM)
Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? I do not think so. To me it is a service. Your BDSM fantasies can be brought to life with a good Pro-Domme. And just because you provide a service does not mean your are submissive and caving to the will of the other peron. As an Engineer people pay me to design and build equipment. Am I submitting to them? No, I provide a service they are willing to pay for. I even instruct them on better ways to accomplish what they seek. Service does not equate to submission. Being a world traveler I will say the Pro-Domme's in the UK are fantastic. Their dungeons are actually dungeons and most have all the equipment you could dream of. Most of the time an interview occurs first to make sure your needs are going to be meet and what will happen in the scene. Very professional to say the least. In the US, their are certainly good Pro-Dommes but their are so many imposters as well. I see so many Pro-Dommes on here advertise and they do not even have a Dungeon. Some do not even have a whip. I really have to laugh when a supposed Pro-Domme in the US wants $350/hour but does not even have a Dungeon. Now that is not to say there are not legitimate Pro-Dommes in the US. There are.....unfortunately there are a 1000 fakes to the that 1 good Pro-Domme.

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