RE: Image

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ProtagonistLily -> RE: Image (2/24/2005 3:15:39 PM)
quote: Don't you think it's time we had something for us? As I said in personal correspondence today I think it's a pity the image most portrayed to the public comes from Jerry Springer. Hrm....thi is right up my alley, kinda. Pardon my francais, but Fuck Springer. To your original question, I guess I have one back at you. If there was a PAC, what would we be using it for, in a lobby sense? And if, just if we put one together, what would the purpose be? Perhaps it would put us in the same catagory as the Tobacco Lobby, the Crude Oil Lobby, the Chemical Lobby...etc. I mean, let's say, for sake of argument, we had the Coalition for the Advencement of Kinksters (CAK for short). What would the agenda be? What would we really be trying to do with the money? A advocacy program for leather vendors? Tackling State laws that ban 'kinky' acts? And say, just say we did this, what's the goal? PAC money is largely used to fund candidates. What candidate is going to take this money? How would it be determined they were 'kink friendly?' I'm by no means trying to be a wet blanket here, so please don't think that. It's a noble idea, however, I'm just trying to structure it in a way that would be A) positive to a broad audience and B) workable in advancing an agenda through supporting Political Candidates. My 2 francs... Lily

ShiftedJewel -> RE: Image (2/24/2005 3:22:53 PM)
quote: I tell ya, Merc...if you were to try and establish a PAC for BDSM, just show me where to sign up. I'm tired of seeing people living in fear. Sooooo.... where do I sign? I know a lot of people have to be very careful because of their jobs, ex-spouse, family and so on. But someone has to step out into the lime-light and take the beatings. I'm not secretive at all, my family knows all about it, my kids know about it too, hell, a couple of them are starting the lifestyle too. We have the BDSM emblem on the back of our bike in plain sight.... I figure those that are "in the know" will see it for what it is, those that aren't but ask about it, I tell them straight up. IMHO the best way to show the world that we are not the lunatics we've been protrayed to be is to bring it into the light, show them what an incredible lifestyle it is. I teach by example and quit watching Jerry Springer years ago. So maybe me and mine have taken on the quest to corrupt the world... ok that's a big basket to fill, but I'm doing my fair share in my own little corner of it. So Hell yeah!! I'm jump on the band wagon! Just tell me what I need to do. Jewel

ShiftedJewel -> RE: Image (2/24/2005 3:27:03 PM)
Personally, I think that tackling the state laws against BDSM activities would be a place to start. Maybe if the vast majority of the people in the lifestyle that are afraid or unwilling to come forward would be more apt to if they new that they couldn't or wouldn't lose their jobs or kids over it. There is power in numbers. Jewel

MrThorns -> RE: Image (2/24/2005 3:29:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily To your original question, I guess I have one back at you. If there was a PAC, what would we be using it for, in a lobby sense? And if, just if we put one together, what would the purpose be? Perhaps it would put us in the same catagory as the Tobacco Lobby, the Crude Oil Lobby, the Chemical Lobby...etc. I would say that the primary purpose of such an organization would be to protect the rights of everyone that practices consentual sex. The right to express yourself sexually with a consentual partner and not be discriminated against. To overturn laws that prohibit this expression between consenting adults while encouraging the creation of new laws that protect those rights. To protect businesses and non-profit organizations that support sexual freedoms. Seems like a good place to start. quote: PAC money is largely used to fund candidates. What candidate is going to take this money? How would it be determined they were 'kink friendly?' A large portion of funds are used to support candidates, but another big contribution that can be given is that of our time. Time volunteered to go door to door, to write pamphlets, sign petitions, or hand out fliers. Volunteering time and effort is still valuable. I agree that the hard part would be in finding a "kink-friendly" candidate, but do they really have to be "kink-friendly"? We're not just talking about BDSM, are we? It's basic civil rights as far as I am concerned. I think if it were presented well, many candidates that are interested in civil rights would be able to support it. ~Thorns

Trachmyr -> RE: Image (2/24/2005 3:30:13 PM)
Mercnbeth, I don't disagree with you about things needing to change, I just want to point out that they are changing... perhaps painfully too slow, but being misunderstood is better than being swept under a rug. The most important thing we can do at this moment is to stop living falsely and in fear. Going to a website and debating the topic is far less likely to make any form of permanent change than 'coming-out' to our friends and family. Now I don't know you or your situation, or how "out" you are, I'm simply stating things as I see them for the community in general. The gay community would not have come as far as they have without the support and solidarity of family and friends in their lives... we can't be afraid to do the same. Do you really think that Judges would have allowed them to come this far if many of them didn’t have a loved one that came out. Society listened more to the parents and supporters of gays and lesbians than they ever listened to the community itself. When my Grandmother, who is extremely homophobic, came to me a few years back and told me that she loved me and she would accept me for being gay, I was so moved I hardly had the nerve to tell her that I was Straight (I still don’t know where she got that idea from). While this might seem funny, a week later (after news of my being “accepted” became common knowledge within my family, what a fiasco that was) my Grand Uncle (my Grandmother’s brother) came out to my grandmother… they hugged, he was happy… and he died 3 days later from a stroke. Makes you think… As for your specific mention of child custody, well I never really considered that... being a man I'm practically guaranteed not to gain custody (if I had children that is), although yes, that's a changing too. As for issues at work... well they all know I'm a freak when it comes to my personal life and beliefs, so all they'd say is "figures... and he looks like such a nice boy". Yet practically all of my co-workers would come to my defense if the company tried something foolish. All I'm saying is don't get your expectations too high, often it's better to utilize structures that already exist rather than creating new ones. But if you try to create a PAC then all I can say is more power too you and good luck. (As for the Morgan reference, no not directly... it's a penname I chose long ago, although Morgana le Fey assuredly had some influence on my choice.)

mantis65 -> RE: Image (2/24/2005 3:33:55 PM)
This reminds me of something that happened last summer. My sister a born again Christian pointed out a bar that hosted some fetish night type events. And she said “that’s were all the alternative lifestyle people meet …..You know the gays”. I tried to explain to here that not all alternative lifestyles are homosexual then decide to give up explaining. I had a feeling if she knew more about BDSM she would see it as more evil than being gay because she would only see it at as violence. Its going to be a double edge sword fighting for more rights is good but being more visible opens you up to being exploited by intolerant moralist types. I constantly hear from Christians about how the gay movement is creating gay people. The problem is there always been the same amount of gay people though out history as there are now they just hid it from mainstream society. The backlash could be that they would say people in this lifestyle are promoting and recruiting for it. Then claim that its become epidemic same old crap they use to demonizes every group they don’t like. I have mixed feelings about it but there should be some sort of pac that protects people’s rights but I feel it should also be discreet.

mistoferin -> RE: Image (2/24/2005 4:09:04 PM)
http://www.fec.gov/ans/answers_pac.shtml#nonconnected This answers some of the questions about start up.

RosaB -> RE: Image (2/24/2005 4:57:12 PM)
Sign me on. : ) I'm all for supporting the cause to Improve the image and rights of the bdsm community. I know that someone I consider a friend and a very well versed person on the lifestyle was supposed to have testified, in NY, on behave of the coalition for sexual freedom, but that court case kept getting put on the back burner. I will try to find out if there's been any more info on it as to when the case will come back to the forefront. But as long as people keep their heads in the sand there won't be much progress in. Rosa

bumblebee -> RE: Image (2/24/2005 5:07:26 PM)
I think it's a great idea. If I were in the States I'd be all for helping out however I could. Don't know if I can be of much use being in Canada though. As for suggestions I'd think you would definitely want to start out challenging the laws that are actively oppressive. So any laws that criminalize bdsm activities, and then move to anti discrimination laws. You can't very well argue that it's wrong to discriminate against someone when what it is for which they are being discriminated against is illegal. I'd look to appeal to civil libertarians of all stripes. One doesn't have to practice an alternative sexuality to support the cause of sexual freedom. There were straight lawyers and politicians fighting for gay rights and there were white activists protesting racial segregation. I wouldn't say that being involved with an organization like the one Merc proposes would mean you would have to out yourself. It's an exciting idea but then I love the law and politics and bdsm so I may be biased.[:)] Inspired by this idea I'm off to search for similar initiatives in Canada. Thanks. p.s. As for making D/s and slave contracts legally enforceable, you might want to keep that one on the backburner.

Dom4TPE -> RE: Image (2/24/2005 5:41:58 PM)
Hi, My fiance/sub (RiotGirl) brought my attention to this Topic, and You have my thoughts perked. I do believe that we should go for it. Not only the Gay rights, but lets think about a different angle in here. We dont necessarily have to take it the political rought. How about having a Once a Week Get - Together (Munches) and oh wait, I think that makes it a religion now. Yeah, thats it, The "Alternative" Lifestyle cannot be looked upon bad, if it goes religious. After the many Religious Battles that were fought throughout History, - The Crusades, WWII, etc..... Maybe Im going off on a tangent but I there is more, then just one way to take this on. POlitically, Religiously, Socially. We dont condemn Jewish for being Jewish, or Catholics, for being Catholics, or Pagans for being Pagan. Personally, I think the Current "Activists" of animal rights, and so on, do more damage, and take more tax payers money, then is needed. The PAC although a great idea, may not be what the lifestyle needs. Im in, but Im going to also do some more checking into things, to see, I think a more of a religious route may be better.

mistoferin -> RE: Image (2/24/2005 7:04:35 PM)
quote: I think that makes it a religion now. LMAO.....I guess I have said that a good flogging takes one closer to God!

MadameBette -> RE: Image (2/24/2005 7:25:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trachmyr I don't disagree with you about things needing to change, I just want to point out that they are changing... perhaps painfully too slow, but being misunderstood is better than being swept under a rug. I’ve seen a lot of changes in my lifetime. From the quiet of the Ozzie and Harriet 50’s, to the revolutions of the 60’s and 70’s: Civil Rights, the anti-war movement, Women’s Lib, Gay Lib, and so on. For quite a while now, I’ve been watching and waiting for a venue to effect positive change for those who like myself, practice BDSM. And things are changing. Hardly a week goes by that I don’t see some BDSM reference in the mainstream media. So, we are slowly, but surely making forays into the awareness of the vanilla public. We have gays to thank for opening the door, not only to alternative lifestyles becoming accepted, but also BDSM in particular. Back in the 80’s, GMLC first coined the term SSC. This was a major step, for in effect they said, BDSM as we practice it, is okay because we care about the safety of our partners, thus portraying BDSM in a more acceptable light. quote: The most important thing we can do at this moment is to stop living falsely and in fear. Going to a website and debating the topic is far less likely to make any form of permanent change than 'coming-out' to our friends and family. The gay community would not have come as far as they have without the support and solidarity of family and friends in their lives... we can't be afraid to do the same. Society listened more to the parents and supporters of gays and lesbians than they ever listened to the community itself. > I strongly agree. I’m not going to jump on the bandwagon and demand that everybody ‘comes out’. It’s not going to happen. Too many people fear that they have too much to lose from disclosure as the situation stands now. They probably would like some sort of change. For one thing, it would ease some of the difficulties of leading a ‘double’ life. (Did you just call your boyfriend, “Master”, sweetie?) (Hmm, …that’s an interesting piece of furniture…What are the eye-hooks for?) It’s the same with any new movement toward personal freedom, whether it be it civil rights or gay liberation. Some will be in the forefront while others silently applaud from the sidelines, and still others just wish we never brought it up, and tuck their heads in the sand until they run into a problem and need help. Those of us who can tolerate being outed, and want to help, should step up to the plate. For me, the time for BDSM is now. ~ Bette

Mercnbeth -> RE: Image (2/24/2005 7:52:32 PM)
quote: Those of us who can tolerate being outed, and want to help, should step up to the plate. For me, the time for BDSM is now. Madame, At least they'll be 2 of us, whoops 3 with beth!

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Image (2/24/2005 11:20:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadameBette quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth There may be some amazed to know that what you did last night in the privacy of your home is considered illegal in MANY locations. This is the crux of the matter. People are afraid of repercussions from their family, friends, at their church, jobs, from the ‘authorities’ etc. . – we know all this. It’s the ‘deal breaker’ in child custody situations. While they offer support for Lifestyle people, they’re focus is broader based, covering all ‘alternative lifestyles‘, and tapping support from the gay community, (those guys have clout now). At NCSF, they are probably the only ones working on behalf of TG’s. (Did you know, for example, that TG’s are often denied healthcare benefits…) ~ Bette Hey There Merc and Beth, I agree I am more Libertarian leaning, but I have some conservative views in me. I'm passionate about a lot of things, but it's measured passion when it comes to placing self in harm's way because I am accountable to more than myself. I have so many political issues to worry about that what I do while the law/police isn't looking (in my home, with my slave) sort of comes way down on the list of priorities for my survival and happiness. I definitely did not mean to say we are crazy, but I hope you'll admit that there is a fine line between normal/healthy/acceptable to the general public and say enjoying sharing ones wife/husband/feces/urine with another. I'm not saying anyone should feel abi normal or disordered; I think that anything anyone does which does not impinge on another (without the other's consent) is perfectly fine and within acceptable normal limits. Would the stereotypical bibletoter prefer a gay or Master/slave? I think the ladder, but maybe it would depend on who's the master, and who the slave is, lol. I agree with Trachmyr when he says the human nature does not necessarily preach "live and let live", and as MadameBette pointed out, this lifestyle is sometimes the dealbreaker in custody cases, and because of that alone many of us who have offsprings would never take the risks inherent in joining such a coalition in a public way... I admire and respect this thought/initiative of yours though. M

BeachMystress -> RE: Image (2/25/2005 1:58:02 AM)
You are in no way the only one frustrated with the portrayal of BDSM in popular media. I equate the way we are shown in most of TV and print articles with trying to show what all marriages are like by only showing cases of abused spouses. While the monsters make better copy and I understand ratings, I am sick and tired of it. I would love to see BDSM have more education and better understanding. People like you asking why we don't have things such as this are the first steps to getting organized and making people in the lifestyle aware that they do not have to put up with discrimination. It was hard for the pioneers in the Gay community. It won't be easy for the brave souls who work to unite this community into a politcal force. I'm glad to hear the first rumblings of it though.

MadameBette -> RE: Image (2/25/2005 4:52:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: Those of us who can tolerate being outed, and want to help, should step up to the plate. Madame, At least they'll be 2 of us, whoops 3 with beth! Well, we've got both coasts represented... Oh, my God! We're nationwide already! <smiles slyly> (I can't get the damn smileys to work) ~ Bette

EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Image (2/25/2005 5:41:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily I mean, let's say, for sake of argument, we had the Coalition for the Advencement of Kinksters (CAK for short). What would the agenda be? There already are several The NCSF- National Coalition for Sexual Freedom LLC- Leather Leadership Conference Leather Archives and Museum and others. They have different specific points of focus and different ways of going about it, but they are all fairly out and active in making alternative sexualities and bdsm known and acceptable.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Image (2/25/2005 12:20:44 PM)
THANKS to all that have contributed. Will be outlining a business plan for this idea over the weekend and have a phone conference set up with a ACLU referred attorney on Monday. If anyone is in the LA area and wants to be involved with the forming committee, please send me an email message through our profile page.

ShiftedJewel -> RE: Image (2/25/2005 1:15:44 PM)
~~Stands up for the midwest!! Jewel

BeachMystress -> RE: Image (2/25/2005 1:39:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth THANKS to all that have contributed. Will be outlining a business plan for this idea over the weekend and have a phone conference set up with a ACLU referred attorney on Monday. If anyone is in the LA area and wants to be involved with the forming committee, please send me an email message through our profile page. While personally I am not tempermentally suited to this type of endevor, would you mind if I refered a local Domme who is involved in the National Coalition for Sexual Freedom? She doesn't read these boards and I don't know that she has any interest in taking on another project, as her life is already pretty full. Also, with your permission, I'd like to post parts of what you've written on this thread to the Club FEm Yahoo group. I'd be just as happy to post an announcement of your own devising if you prefer to control what is passed along. You may also want to think of contacting Lady Badger as she (if you don't know) runs the " target="_blank" rel="nofollow">local happenings Yahoo group.

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