Tops...Can You Feel The Pain?

Tops...Can You Feel The Pain? (Full Version)

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Elegant -> Tops...Can You Feel The Pain? (1/4/2007 5:01:45 PM)
In another forum, as a segeu from the original topic someone offered advise to a novice Top: quote: The best advice I can give you is this: always hit yourself before you hit someone else. Meaning if you have never used a crop on some one, hit yourself testing out different strokes and strenghs. For other Tops who believe in this method I issue a challenge: Hit yourself with a crop then let me hit you with that crop. Even if I used similiar force and motion the pain from my strike would feel greater than your self-strike. There is anecdotal and incidental research evidence suggesting that self-inflicted pain is experienced as less painful than when the same is applied by another person. If you are one who wishes to feel a toy before wielding it then have someone else strike you with that toy. You don't have to 'submit', your don't have to 'bottom'....just have someone give you a sample of what it is like. (I did so enjoy watching Master Archer voluntarily get struck with a single tail in front of a workshop full of people a few years ago...grin)

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Tops...Can You Feel The Pain? (1/4/2007 5:06:55 PM)
This is actually how I trained my partner in flogging for the most part. I'd do a demo ON him and explained the techniques and then could directly apply it to himself. It also helps to have a mirror for them.

MstrTiger -> RE: Tops...Can You Feel The Pain? (1/4/2007 5:19:32 PM)
Yes that all sounds very sensible……… perhaps that’s why I don’t like the idea in the slightest?.

Celeste43 -> RE: Tops...Can You Feel The Pain? (1/4/2007 5:43:33 PM)
I've grabbed things that cause weird sensations on me and run them over him, only to discover that he can tolerate more of the sensation than I can. He can tolerate more pain too. Doesn't do anything for him but he definitely has a higher pain threshold.

LadyHugs -> RE: Tops...Can You Feel The Pain? (1/4/2007 5:50:46 PM)
Dear Elegant, Ladies and Gentlemen; In my salad days I was on the slave side of things so, I was familiar with everything before I phased to my mastery side and into domination frame. That said, for those who have never experienced the tools they use on others I do challenge them to feel what they apply. And, it is true--you cannot hurt yourself as much as a different person with the same tool does on you. (In general sense). It is like one cannot tickle themself yet--another can tickle and it would be a dramatic response. Majority of those I've taught have felt my techniques, strokes, variety of leather floggers, canes, paddles, single tails and spanking. Just as they have felt the differences in how positions create different effects from such administrations. Respectfully submitted for consideration, Lady Hugs

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Tops...Can You Feel The Pain? (1/4/2007 6:24:56 PM)
Oh, I dunno...I left marks the length of my forearm that lasted for 5 days with a cane. I also left marks on my calf with a wooden spoon. I was showing a TNG chapter what different marks looked like. Someone had asked, but no one volunteered to be struck, so I used myself. I've tested all my floggers as hard as I could hit on my bare back and thighs. I've left marks with crops. I've tried clamps on various places for various lengths of time. I've done needle play, cutting and fire play all on myself while learning. The only things I haven't done/used was the cauterizing pen (that was done as a ritual branding TO me) and my singletail. With the singletail, someone we both know and love gave me the first three stripes...but I have caught myself with it on the calf, back, cheek and ear. LOL I think it's your intent and your willingness to REALLY use it on yourself. But, I do agree, it's IS different when someone else does it. There's a different processing that goes on in my head....kind like the difference between masturbating and someone else helping. Master Fire

BitaTruble -> RE: Tops...Can You Feel The Pain? (1/4/2007 7:48:36 PM)
I'd like to add that it really doesn't matter if a Top tries things out on themselves, a pillow or a stuffed animal. It is not going to give you any indication of how using the implement is going to feel on a bottom who may have a completely different pain tolerance. Starting on the bottom only gives one information about their 'own' levels. I can be smacked with a crop and yawn while someone else may be smacked in the exact same way with the exact same force and yelp. It's all subjective. Celeste

MizSuz -> RE: Tops...Can You Feel The Pain? (1/4/2007 8:25:27 PM)
I personally like to feel the implement, often inflicted by myself but usually by myself and someone else. I bought a ridiculously heinous flogger from Bo & Skye of Details at a BondCon about 2 years ago. It's made of very heavy, long rubber tresses, angle tipped at the ends. I haven't weighed the thing, but 7 pounds wouldn't surprise me. I have to throw it with two hands. I bought it on a lark but had Bo there and he was kind enough to deal me a couple of blows with it. I like being familiar with the implements from both ends. I'm masochistic as well as sadistic so it works out for me. As silly as the flogger seemed to me when I bought it, I've run across a number of folks who like it as a scene ender. I also agree that every person is going to react differently to different stimuli. I think it's best to communicate and be fastidious about reading the bottom, but having a sense of the kind of sensation the implement can make is good information in creating the kind of scene you want to have.

RobertCloud -> RE: Tops...Can You Feel The Pain? (1/4/2007 8:40:32 PM)
For most items, especially those that inflict pain, I like to know the amount of pain they can inflict. I am not a masochist, and I do not like pain in general, but I want to know what it can do. If I am going to use it I want to know the damage it can do and would rather know on myself before using it on another. There is no better way to judge this than knowing the pain first hand. I have a very high pain tolerance, so if I think it is too much I am pretty certain most others will as well. I have suffered a continuous non-stop headache for 25 years due to an auto-accident and have even had to be hospitalized with it twice. The pain medications that they have given me for it barely even dull the pain, I have gotten to the point I disassociate from that pain most of the time. Slamming my hand in the car door will elicit no sounds from me only a grimace, I stabbed my foot through with a butcher knife two years ago (by accident of course) the pain really was nothing, it was the blood that bothered me more than anything. And believe me, when a man has a cystoscopy there is NO WORSE PAIN possible. It is like a man giving birth through his penis to a watermelon. And when he pees for the nest three months it is like peeing fire and razor blades combined, and yet I made no sounds and just accepted it had to be done. So, my pain tolerance is high, and I often will judge things as more easily handled than they are. Still I try to make certain that at least I know what it does first.

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Tops...Can You Feel The Pain? (1/4/2007 8:57:18 PM)
quote: If you are one who wishes to feel a toy before wielding it then have someone else strike you with that toy. You don't have to 'submit', your don't have to 'bottom'....just have someone give you a sample of what it is like. No way. I'm not even a little bit interested in testing the hurt I plan to cause him sometimes on myself. It's extremely rare that I've played with a boy gagged, so that he is always free to tell me when something feels wrong/needs adjusting, and I expect that type of communication from a boy. When he seems to have surrendered completely to the hurt, I become especially aware and careful not to continue much longer and possibly harm him... Than we discuss whether I should have been less/more intense, or continued longer. The men I've dated know that if there is something I am not sure how to do safely, we first have the disclaimer conversation about him being a willing guinea pig on whom I will be experimenting, and it can end up with him harmed... Fortunately, that has never happened beyond bruising which I generally intend to do anyway. There are things I'm willing to learn on myself, but not pain related things. M

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Tops...Can You Feel The Pain? (1/4/2007 9:09:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble I'd like to add that it really doesn't matter if a Top tries things out on themselves, a pillow or a stuffed animal. It is not going to give you any indication of how using the implement is going to feel on a bottom who may have a completely different pain tolerance. VERY good point. But, what it does do is, hopefully, give you some control of the instrument. Not all toys are the same...and not all of the same KIND of toy are the same. I think, in reality, it's best to have a combination. That way, we get to hit everybody. LOL Master Fire

Adrenochrome -> RE: Tops...Can You Feel The Pain? (1/4/2007 10:40:44 PM)
Although I've experienced the pain of being struck, I A) don't enjoy it, B) don't feel that it would add anything to my use of my slave. I'm more than willing to test out toys on myself (which I do). But allowing my property to strike me? That would trigger several red-button issues, all at once, for personal reasons.

onestandingstill -> RE: Tops...Can You Feel The Pain? (1/5/2007 5:16:40 AM)
Or you could just whack your own arm or leg with the toy to get a guage on how stingy it is compared to your other toys. I really don't feel a Dom/Master has to really test frive a toy fully enough to be spanked with it first to know how stingy/thuddy it will be. On a seperate note I sort of agree with the Old Guard concept of you should bottom if you top. I don't think you should be a slave for a year first like their training depicts, but rather at least take the opportunity to bottom once or twice just to see it from the other side. I think this act will add some compassion & understanding for the sub/slave and their perspective if you have stood in their shoes at least once. suzanne suzanne quote: ORIGINAL: Elegant In another forum, as a segeu from the original topic someone offered advise to a novice Top: quote: The best advice I can give you is this: always hit yourself before you hit someone else. Meaning if you have never used a crop on some one, hit yourself testing out different strokes and strenghs. For other Tops who believe in this method I issue a challenge: Hit yourself with a crop then let me hit you with that crop. Even if I used similiar force and motion the pain from my strike would feel greater than your self-strike. There is anecdotal and incidental research evidence suggesting that self-inflicted pain is experienced as less painful than when the same is applied by another person. If you are one who wishes to feel a toy before wielding it then have someone else strike you with that toy. You don't have to 'submit', your don't have to 'bottom'....just have someone give you a sample of what it is like. (I did so enjoy watching Master Archer voluntarily get struck with a single tail in front of a workshop full of people a few years ago...grin)

thetammyjo -> RE: Tops...Can You Feel The Pain? (1/5/2007 8:04:42 AM)
I only use a toy on myself if I want a general idea of what it feels like. If I want to learn how to use something, I'll apprentice and practice it under the guidance of another person which far more experience using that tool than I and who is respected for their knowledge. That's how I've learned to be a top. I mean, I've had surgeries where doctors explained what they would do and even showed me video afterwards but that does not qualify me to perform the surgeries myself. I'd have to learn through study and practice and guidance.

KnightofMists -> RE: Tops...Can You Feel The Pain? (1/5/2007 9:37:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elegant For other Tops who believe in this method I issue a challenge: Hit yourself with a crop then let me hit you with that crop. Even if I used similiar force and motion the pain from my strike would feel greater than your self-strike. Since I don't agree with this belief... I get to pass on this challenge..... Sucks for you people that believe in this method..... and elegant.... if you get tired... I will take a turn and doing some striking... G

Mercnbeth -> RE: Tops...Can You Feel The Pain? (1/5/2007 10:04:04 AM)
quote: If you are one who wishes to feel a toy before wielding it then have someone else strike you with that toy. You don't have to 'submit', your don't have to 'bottom'....just have someone give you a sample of what it is like. (I did so enjoy watching Master Archer voluntarily get struck with a single tail in front of a workshop full of people a few years ago...grin) Hi guys! I don't think this works. I'm confident that beth doesn't process the sensation, call it "pain" as I do/would. I've had this discussion with many people over the years. It used to be a favorite topic between play-times in NYC. Were I at the end of a single tail, I'd jump up and down rub the mark until it stopped hurting and my cursing stopped echoing through the canyons. Experiencing the same strike, beth may also scream but they'd likely be screams of orgasmic ecstasy. I'm convinced, based upon experience, that the mental/emotional process is different between a dominant and a submissive. I don't believe it is possible for me to know what beth is feeling on the receiving end anymore than she can determine what I'm feeling from the giving end. However, anytime I decide to add another toy to the "toy-box" (btw-we have the wooden one from Folsom at the foot of our bed. Enjoying the purple flogger?) I try it, swatting my palm but it's as a reference to compare to similar toys. The goal being to know where is ranks in severity. I use observation and post-use discussion with beth to determine if my assumption was accurate. Maybe I can "feel the pain" but there is no way I can know the "feeling" the pain generates.

KnightofMists -> RE: Tops...Can You Feel The Pain? (1/5/2007 10:12:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth I'm convinced, based upon experience, that the mental/emotional process is different between a dominant and a submissive. I don't believe it is possible for me to know what beth is feeling on the receiving end anymore than she can determine what I'm feeling from the giving end. I would change the above to... "I'm convinced, based upon experience, that the mental/emotional process is different for everyone. I don't belive it is possible for me to know what another is feeling on the receiving end anymore than than can determine what I'm feeling from the giving end" All we can do is appreciate it by our observations and exchanges in communication. for some.. they find themselves appreciating it if they experience the strike.... others need not have that experience to appreciate it.

thetammyjo -> RE: Tops...Can You Feel The Pain? (1/5/2007 1:06:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth I'm convinced, based upon experience, that the mental/emotional process is different between a dominant and a submissive. I don't believe it is possible for me to know what beth is feeling on the receiving end anymore than she can determine what I'm feeling from the giving end. I would change the above to... "I'm convinced, based upon experience, that the mental/emotional process is different for everyone. I don't belive it is possible for me to know what another is feeling on the receiving end anymore than than can determine what I'm feeling from the giving end" All we can do is appreciate it by our observations and exchanges in communication. for some.. they find themselves appreciating it if they experience the strike.... others need not have that experience to appreciate it. Agree. I'd also add (though not to attack anyone) that the worst tops I've ever known were ones who started off on the bottom and then decided that they knew what the other person felt like and therefore didn't listen and didn't seem to have any empathy. Each person is different and I think it is arrogant to think we can know what another person feels. Heck how I feel about any physical or sexual sensation can change from day to day or even moment to moment at times.

theMadWelder -> RE: Tops...Can You Feel The Pain? (1/5/2007 1:11:34 PM)
I feel what the other person feels thru either the whip,flogger etc. When I touch someone with an impliment or my hand I feel exactly what they are feeling and that gives me the direction of where that scene is going to end up. I will gladly however stand there for someone to practice on if I am helping a person use and get used to a certian item.

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