Sweden off fossil fuels by 2020 (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid



Message

aviinterra -> Sweden off fossil fuels by 2020 (1/5/2007 7:31:42 AM)

Sweden has pledged to phase out fossil fuels by the year 2020, and they are well on their way to making that come true. I remember reading an article last year about how Brazil has switched to ethanol and is now off the oil binge as well. According to the BBC, scientists predict 2007 to be historically the warmest year, mainly because of greenhouse gases. I believe them- 60 degrees in January and blossoming trees in Mass. is kind of frightening. If these countries can do it, why is most of the world so reluctant to at least give it a try, esp. the U.S?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16455271/



JohnWarren -> RE: Sweden off fossil fuels by 2020 (1/5/2007 7:38:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aviinterra

Sweden has pledged to phase out fossil fuels by the year 2020, and they are well on their way to making that come true. I remember reading an article last year about how Brazil has switched to ethanol and is now off the oil binge as well. According to the BBC, scientists predict 2007 to be historically the warmest year, mainly because of greenhouse gases. I believe them- 60 degrees in January and blossoming trees in Mass. is kind of frightening. If these countries can do it, why is most of the world so reluctant to at least give it a try, esp. the U.S?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16455271/

Same scientists who predicted we'd be hammered by hurricanes last year?

Check back next January.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Sweden off fossil fuels by 2020 (1/5/2007 7:41:53 AM)

Sweden gets nearly 1/2 of it's power from nuclear power plants. Wonder why that aspect wasn't part of the MSN article? They have tried to phase it out, but as of year end 2005 it was still at a 45% level. Should the US follow their lead and build nuclear power plants as an alternative power source?

Source of information: http://www.uic.com.au/nip39.htm



DomforDomme -> RE: Sweden off fossil fuels by 2020 (1/5/2007 9:26:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aviinterra

Sweden has pledged to phase out fossil fuels by the year 2020, and they are well on their way to making that come true. I remember reading an article last year about how Brazil has switched to ethanol and is now off the oil binge as well. According to the BBC, scientists predict 2007 to be historically the warmest year, mainly because of greenhouse gases. I believe them- 60 degrees in January and blossoming trees in Mass. is kind of frightening. If these countries can do it, why is most of the world so reluctant to at least give it a try, esp. the U.S?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16455271/


The world runs on energy, and we are not going to run out of it.  There is more available energy now then there has ever been, as technology advances to make new sources of fuel available.  I just read an article about a new process to make liquified coal which burns cleanly and which can be used to power vehicles at a price cheaper than current oil prices.  They estimate that there is over 100 years of cheap clean fuel available using this process.  The USA and other countries are putting more money into fusion research, and when they can make fusion work, cheap clean power availability will be effectively infinate.

As long as there have been people, there have been doom and gloom predicters.  I'm sure there were cavemen condemning the wheel and fire.  We humans may be flawed, but we also have an amazing ability to solve problems and find solutions.  The only thing that can stand in the way of human progress is governement, and only if we let them.



sleazy -> RE: Sweden off fossil fuels by 2020 (1/5/2007 10:39:44 AM)

Am I alone in noticing this is not all as actually as it appears on first reading?

Taking bulk power generation away from fossil fuels is actually technically quite easy, and no matter what others my preach I think for a power hungry world nuclear is the only really viable option. However whilst low level transportation may not require fossil fuels in the new story, methane for petrol engines (and I would assume some form of vegetable oil for diesels as methane cannot supply the lubrication a diesel injector pump requires) does not make them completely green. As long as a hydrocarbon is burned there is an impact on the carbon emissions.


On the question of if Sweden can, why cant the US, my first argument would be one of scale of infra strucuture. Imagine the hassle of converting every gas station in just one heavily populated county to alternative fuels, now roll it out accross the the state, and then the nation. My second would be simply cultural, the Swedes are not Americans, and of course the reverse applies too.



meatcleaver -> RE: Sweden off fossil fuels by 2020 (1/5/2007 10:49:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomforDomme

As long as there have been people, there have been doom and gloom predicters. 


And as long as there has been people, civilisations have come and gone and we shouldn't think ours is so special. Many civilisations have undermined themselves by over harvesting their habitat, there is nothing doom and gloom about living within ones means and not living high on the next generations inheritence.



AmazonInk -> RE: Sweden off fossil fuels by 2020 (1/5/2007 10:54:57 AM)

quote:

Same scientists who predicted we'd be hammered by hurricanes last year?


As it happens, Ireland has had more in the way of hurricanes and stormy, upset, freakish weather than I ever remember this last year.  As we're generally quite middle of the road it has been clearly different weather, even down to wind direction.

2 words people: Peak Oil.  What we are doing can't go on forever, and burying our heads in the sand regarding making changes means that time will run out before we are ready for it.  Sure, there's plenty of options, but most of the miracle technology will take old fashioned mining, which is oil based industry, to aquire the metals to build the substitutes.

I don't think we're heading for Mad Max territory exactly, but we need to be making these changes NOW.




gooddogbenji -> RE: Sweden off fossil fuels by 2020 (1/5/2007 10:58:07 AM)

And as long as there have been doom and gloom projectors there has been doom and gloom.

That, and people to make fun of them.

Lastly, there have been people making this observation.

Yours,


benji



meatcleaver -> RE: Sweden off fossil fuels by 2020 (1/5/2007 11:04:31 AM)

Advocating modifying ones behaviour to current and forecast conditions is not gloom and doom. The people who call it doom and gloom are those people that fear they will have to give up their luxurious lifestyles. Meaningful change now will mean avoiding a crisis change later on and even if the doom and gloom merchants are wrong, the world will be better for a cleaner environment and a more sustainable lifestyle. Change is win win, not changing is an all or nothing gamble.



QuietlySeeking -> RE: Sweden off fossil fuels by 2020 (1/5/2007 11:09:25 AM)

Funny thing, according to the US Geological Dept, we were supposed to run out of Fossil Fuel in the US about 100 years ago....and then about 40 years after that prediction, it was going to be in the 1990/2000 decade.  Hmmm, I seem to have enough fuel in my gas tank. 

Those that predict gloom and doom simply don't factor in the technology jumps that will be made in the next 30-40 years.  Not saying we shouldn't conserve, just saying that it's never as dire as the worst make it out to be, nor as glowing as the optimists say it will be.



Page: [1]

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.015625