Protocols: When do they begin? (Full Version)

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MistressNoName -> Protocols: When do they begin? (1/5/2007 3:24:21 PM)

Ladies,

I am wondering, in Your various processes of considering a potential submissive/slave, at what point do you begin instituting protocols? I maintain that the foundation has to be started from the beginning. No, I do not mean that I meet a sub and immediately expect him to fall to his knees. In my view, that would be a tad unreasonable. But I do maintain certain expectations such as how I prefer to be addressed and that my interview questions be answered directly, honestly and thoroughly. How say You All?

MNN



MsLadySue -> RE: Protocols: When do they begin? (1/5/2007 3:35:02 PM)

I agree with you. I make sure they know how I wish to be addressed and that I will accept nothing less than total honesty in response my questions.



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Protocols: When do they begin? (1/5/2007 4:06:48 PM)

It can depend. I start asking for protocol when they've convinced me that are serious about the attempt at a relationship. Sometimes, that never happens. Sometimes, it's within hours. It's rather subjective and varies from person to person.

Master Fire



thetammyjo -> RE: Protocols: When do they begin? (1/5/2007 4:09:49 PM)

I lay out my protocols in my training contract. I expect it to be read, discussed and understood before it is signed. Once signed, we have started training and that's when protocols start for me because only then have I become the dominant in that relationship.



demistress -> RE: Protocols: When do they begin? (1/5/2007 4:26:29 PM)

I think it's about being consistent, I don't start until I feel it's right, but once I begin instituting protocols I have to be prepared to follow through.



slavekal -> RE: Protocols: When do they begin? (1/5/2007 5:47:03 PM)

As a submissive, I really appreciate that kind of guidance.  Even though you are in the getting to know you stage, it sets the tone when a Mistress has some expectations and rules.  If you start all buddy-buddy and on equal footing, it can be kind of difficult to reverse that momentum.



MzMia -> RE: Protocols: When do they begin? (1/5/2007 9:18:51 PM)

Hello MNN,
I don't begin serious protocols with total strangers online.  It does nothing for me.  What I EXPECT, is that
they will be able to follow directions.  I ask a series of questions and if they make it past that round, then I
expect a letter of introduction.  I look for respect, availability and sincerity, IF they make it past the first
few rounds, I might gradually incorporate a few protocols. 
For me, it is not going to get but so serious until we meet RT.  So I use online, emails, phone, etc. to see if
it is even worth "meeting" RT.
The only "protocols" I expect immediately, would be to listen and be able to communicate and follow instructions.
I have found following directions seems to be very hard for many online submissive's.



MistressSassy66 -> RE: Protocols: When do they begin? (1/5/2007 10:21:20 PM)

My protocols dont start until after they do their paperwork.
I have to say I'm not huge on protocols so I dont have many.



Vendaval -> RE: Protocols: When do they begin? (1/6/2007 12:11:05 AM)

I wait to meet the prospect in person after exchanging e-mails
and phone calls.  Only if they pass the interview stage and go
on to the training stage do I expect protocols.  Basic good
manners are expected from the beginning.
 
 
 
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNoName
Ladies,

I am wondering, in Your various processes of considering a potential submissive/slave, at what point do you begin instituting protocols?
MNN



mshamble -> RE: Protocols: When do they begin? (1/6/2007 4:06:20 AM)

a good sub would and should know thier place before you meet, if the contact has been via the net then telephone most of your requirements would have been talk about already surely?
the trust has to be build....... the resepect has to be given to be recieved.......talking should be a huge thing before anything could or should take place surely......

but hey what would i know  im a newbie to the board



LotusSong -> RE: Protocols: When do they begin? (1/6/2007 7:18:50 AM)

Usually, I expect nothing other than common courtesy in the beginning.  The only correction I'd do is if they are "mistress"ing me to death. And that would be a correction to simply call me Lotus.  If they do not wear my collar, there is no other protocol expected. 



MistressNoName -> RE: Protocols: When do they begin? (1/6/2007 8:59:34 AM)

This from mshamble: "a good sub would and should know thier place before you meet"

Can you say more about this please? By "good" sub, do you mean experienced? Or something to that effect? I think a sub can be "good," or potentially "good," but be a total newbie with absolutely no clue of his/her "place." I think an experienced sub would have less trouble figuring this out. Ideally, tho, neither would have to figure anything out b/c the Mistress would have made this clear.

This from LotusSong: "Usually, I expect nothing other than common courtesy in the beginning."

This from Vendaval: "Basic good manners are expected from the beginning."

I'm assuming you both mean more than the sub knowing how to say "please" and "thank you." Can you speak more about this? Esp. how does "good manners" and "common courtesy" differ from establishing protocols? And by "establishing protocols" within this context I mean establishing behavioral expectations.

Thank you all for responding.

MNN



thetammyjo -> RE: Protocols: When do they begin? (1/6/2007 10:46:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNoName

This from mshamble: "a good sub would and should know thier place before you meet"

Can you say more about this please? By "good" sub, do you mean experienced? Or something to that effect? I think a sub can be "good," or potentially "good," but be a total newbie with absolutely no clue of his/her "place." I think an experienced sub would have less trouble figuring this out. Ideally, tho, neither would have to figure anything out b/c the Mistress would have made this clear.

This from LotusSong: "Usually, I expect nothing other than common courtesy in the beginning."

This from Vendaval: "Basic good manners are expected from the beginning."

I'm assuming you both mean more than the sub knowing how to say "please" and "thank you." Can you speak more about this? Esp. how does "good manners" and "common courtesy" differ from establishing protocols? And by "establishing protocols" within this context I mean establishing behavioral expectations.

Thank you all for responding.

MNN


I'm not any of these people but for me, protocols are the rituals, language and behavior I expect in scene -- they can be based on common politeness but they go beyond them.

For example, when I train I am called "Milady" by the trainee, when I own I am called "Mistress" by my slave -- they never call me TammyJo.

I have positions they will leave and use when doing many things such as just waiting for me, or bringing me somthing or receiving a collar -- that isn't politeness, it's ritual.

There are others as well these are just examples.



MistressYlwa -> RE: Protocols: When do they begin? (1/6/2007 10:55:40 AM)

Protocols, for me, are taught in stages. I tell the potential what I expect in conversation, such as Yes, Ma'am and No, Ma'am. They are told to be completely honest and open in our conversations.
 
Once we are at the "meet me" stage, they are given instruction on how to greet me in public and in private. From there, we move on to training in daily protocol.  If I accept them as a R/T, fulltime, then the formal protocol training begins.
 
Personally, I use a modified form of Butchmann's protocol.
 
Mistress Ylwa



LadyHugs -> RE: Protocols: When do they begin? (1/6/2007 12:15:49 PM)

Dear MistressNoName, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
In my own personal case, I am usually in the 1950's frame of polite etiquette.  It usually follows a flow of respect.  However, when I do strike up a correspondence with a lad or lass, they will get the fact that I am polite and respectful and the maintaining of that by me, usually influences them into the same respectful exchange.  It is by it's bare bone's practice a form of protocol.  I don't demand it but, I inspire it.  In summary, I practice what I preach, in regard to exchange in conversation and correspondences.
 
From there, in learning more about the person, I do say up front that I am a person who enjoys formal protocol.  A lot will exclude themself from that point and won't waste my time further.  Those with military experience are not phased by such, as they have an understanding.
I don't press the 'honesty' and 'fully' in the beginning.  I let their body language and their eyes give me the read on if its a lot of bull pies or if its the truth, as well as anything in between.  I give ample opportunity for slaves to come clean.  But, I give them an opportunity to do so as well as an explaination.  I interview prospects--not conduct an interrogation.
 
In my mind's eyes I see, people will embellish the qualities they have.
It is natural and so I expect it.  When they learn it is ok to be themself and invite honesty, they will do so.
 
Just some thoughts,
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs
 
 



mshamble -> RE: Protocols: When do they begin? (1/6/2007 4:04:31 PM)

This from mshamble: "a good sub would and should know thier place before you meet"

Can you say more about this please? By "good" sub, do you mean experienced? Or something to that effect? I think a sub can be "good," or potentially "good," but be a total newbie with absolutely no clue of his/her "place." I think an experienced sub would have less trouble figuring this out. Ideally, tho, neither would have to figure anything out b/c the Mistress would have made this clear.

dear mistressnoname........i did mean an experienced sub yes, i was not thinking when i wrote this, i myself do not like new unexperienced as i have not the liking to teach from scratch, i like to inprove to my liking..... so im sorry for any misunderstanding in my statement



LadyHugs -> RE: Protocols: When do they begin? (1/7/2007 6:14:23 AM)

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I am not directing my observations and comments to any one person or any posts made.
 
That said, in my mind's eyes I see; that most of us will have had prior contact with one another.  In that exchange, an exchange of what social protocol will be used in a meeting, most commonly in a neutral place.  Protocol is a series of rules to follow; so in some ways protocol starts immediately once establishing contact and an exchange of preferred treatment or manners.
 
Perhaps what is clouding the question of when protocols begin is which protocol we're actually addressing.
 
Social protocol would be for vanilla settings and meetings, placing a bit of a twist as to enhance D/s interaction but, no so as to upset the 'natives' per se.  Whereas, scene protocol has a different set of protocols or rules of conduct to follow; in addition if there was a personal relationship--personal protocols would be another layer of rules to operate with, such as the greeting, presentment, use of butt towels to sit on, as they don't sit in furniture, etc.
 
It is my opinion, that those who do not get into my personal relationship are not going to have the same degree of protocols taught.  Until there is a commitment, the casual encounter is not really a good opportunity to 'teach' them; as they may have other partners in the scene.  I also believe that protocols are more likely followed by those in the relationship, as it is an investment in the relationship, maintaining the line that defines the roles as dominant and submission, as well as demonstrating a respect for that division.
 
So, in summary--it is very likely, that there will be a social protocol used in vanilla or non-BDSM settings, a social protocol in BDSM settings, scene/dungeon protocols and personal protocols which are indeed 'personal' and practiced in a variety of degrees.  Again--I see protocols used as soon as there is an interaction between another human, as it starts in first exchanges as soon as preferences are made known.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs



DominaJade -> RE: Protocols: When do they begin? (1/7/2007 10:45:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekal

As a submissive, I really appreciate that kind of guidance.  Even though you are in the getting to know you stage, it sets the tone when a Mistress has some expectations and rules.  If you start all buddy-buddy and on equal footing, it can be kind of difficult to reverse that momentum.


Actually I can vouch for that. Most of my meetings have been somewhat casual. So when I actually play I don't actually "dominate" them or expect them to follow certain protocols because a. I seldom have protocols b. We have been more friends than Mistress and submissive c. It's kinda hard to get past the friendship and see only the submissive.

But that is from my own personal observation. Now I am seeking new submissives to fill certain roles. I am taking on a different approach.

DJ






MstrssPassion -> RE: Protocols: When do they begin? (1/7/2007 11:28:35 AM)

It really depends on what you consider protocols to be. Though many protocols are fairly common we are each capable of refining & redefining these to suit our own dynamic. You mention someone falling to their knees... I don't consider that to be a protocol at all. If someone falls to their knees in front of me I consider that to be rather presumptuous & one thing I know all women will agree with is that they never want someone to assume they have you all figured out so easily.

Within my profile I have asked to be contacted in a specific way with specific information included. By all rights this could be considered a protocol. So with that said... I enforce certain protocols before I even meet with someone.

Outside of this, most of what I consider protocol to be are most easily defined as code of conduct & fairly common with many people. Most often this is already (or should be) understood & practiced so again I feel that these protocols should be in place before I even meet someone.

The personal preferences I would have about my interaction with someone will be expressed as needed. This is done at the time it comes up & I observe how consistent the individual is with adhering to my preferences. (simple examples: how I am to be addressed, holding a door open for me, appearance & posture, etc.) As far as enforcing my personal preferences... I would not do so until they were under formal training but of course their previous attempts to be consistent with my wishes would most likely gain them the opportunity to being considered for that formal training. So in this case, explaining & expecting these expressed protocols starts as soon as possible.



Vendaval -> RE: Protocols: When do they begin? (1/7/2007 11:46:05 PM)

Attitude is really the key here, as courtsey gestures can differ
between regions and cultures.  (See also previous discussions
about how to address a Mistress on these boards.)
 
Put it this way, the prospect should be on their best behavior,
because this is an interview for a position, as if they were
applying for a job.  And the particular protocols will vary
with each Dom/me, just as particular job requirements
differ with types of employment. I.E. is the propsect looking
to be a personal assistant, a cook/housekeeper, a companion
to Kink functions, etc.
 
 


quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNoName

This from Vendaval: "Basic good manners are expected from the beginning."

I'm assuming you both mean more than the sub knowing how to say "please" and "thank you." Can you speak more about this? Esp. how does "good manners" and "common courtesy" differ from establishing protocols? And by "establishing protocols" within this context I mean establishing behavioral expectations.

Thank you all for responding.

MNN



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